Lazyboy

It's how the paper was made/treated. Ink levels will affect how the colours look and, thereby, your overall perception of the cover, but covers with significant white areas can still be glossy.

Wear and exposure will affect gloss.

On 12/3/2023 at 9:43 AM, VintageComics said:

Comics today have less text.

Which comics today? Less text than what?

On 12/3/2023 at 9:43 AM, VintageComics said:

Comics today are driven more by the art than the story. I mean, isn't this a common complaint about comic writers over the past few years?

That's not the common complaint I've heard.

On 12/3/2023 at 9:43 AM, VintageComics said:

Collectors today, who are the readers of yesterday (and yesterday can be as soon as 5-10 years ago) are less interested in content and more interested in splashy pages and covers.

Some are, for sure, though they aren't necessarily the readers of yesterday (or ever). But those people are not the majority.

On 12/3/2023 at 9:43 AM, VintageComics said:

I asked which age range you were in and you never answered. I ask because you sound quite a bit younger than me.

I am about a decade younger than you, as if that has any relevance.

On 12/3/2023 at 9:43 AM, VintageComics said:

More impatient

You have no idea how wrong you are. Not that that's anything new.

On 12/3/2023 at 9:43 AM, VintageComics said:

your timeline focus is very narrow (I'm surprised you didn't throw in an "OK Boomer")

Or maybe I just actually care about context, because context always matters.

On 12/3/2023 at 9:43 AM, VintageComics said:

you have trouble following the string of discussion.

No, I don't have any trouble following things, unless those things are incoherent ramblings.

On 12/3/2023 at 12:15 PM, VintageComics said:

Old school collectors used to hunt down everything their favorite creators did, no matter how small it was.

You're right, everyone used to collect exactly the same way. You're always right... if right means wrong.

On 12/3/2023 at 2:48 PM, NP_Gresham said:

Comics vs cards is like boxing vs Football

Cards and the NFL want the product viewed/sold everywhere at every price point.

Comics and Boxing want to squeeze every dime at every sale and are very exclusive with Direct sales and pay per view on every unit/ big fight.

The exclusivity and maxing out each individual sale over time simply kills the golden goose.

Fewer fans give a krap about boxing any more and Comics are circling the drain.

Meanwhile the NFL keeps drawing more interest by always having games available on free TV. And cards can be found in all the places comics abandoned years ago.

Comics never wanted newsstand distributors and retailers to drop them. That was not the publishers' choice. They just reacted and gave a chance to somebody who presented them with another option.

On 12/2/2023 at 8:04 PM, VintageComics said:

My point was always that story content has become far less important now to comic collectors than covers have become

Then your point is just pure bull. It might be closer to being true for slab collectors, but that is nothing.

On 12/2/2023 at 4:49 PM, VintageComics said:

I am very glad you mentioned that. 

I was waiting for you to say that so that I could show you in detail how the hobby has changed over the years. 

So we've covered the 70's and 80's.

I posted those examples to show you that origin issues were originally considered prime material because comics used to be based on reading the content and not the covers. The only way to show you this is to show you how the hobby evolved through the documented Bible we have, the OSPG.

Now I'm going to show you this from 2006. This book was probably the first OSPG where I started to notice huge jumps in key prices that I believe were directly related to the CGC market. If you all remember, the big SA keys took HUGE jumps around this time:

 

Now look at the same issues I documented from the 1970's and 80's

Superman. 

You'll notice that there are even MORE origin stories broken out with Superman #3 noting origin reprint from Action #5.

But you'll also notice that Superman #53 is now broken out as the 3rd telling of the Superman origin! 

So, in 2006, 68 years after the 1st origin of Superman, and 23 years after the last OSPG I posted (which you mocked for being "decades old", the OSPG is STILL breaking out Origin stories and in greater detail than ever before. 

I'm doing this to show you that Origin stories were always considered important historically, no matter how people feel about them today. 

 

Detective Comics #31 vs #33

 

Strange Tales:

 

And finally, Marvel Tales (issue #75 is the origin reprint of the origin retelling in ASM #94):

If you're going to try to convince me of something, using Overstreet after it turned to irrelevant  is definitely not the way to do it, especially with your example still being almost two decades old.

Again, the point is that origins have been endlessly reprinted and retold. It's not that they don't matter or people care about them any less, it's that they're very easily accessible, in one form or another.

On 12/2/2023 at 4:20 PM, VintageComics said:

Sorry, gang. You can't rewrite history.

So you're going to stop trying?

On 12/2/2023 at 2:48 PM, Lazyboy said:

The actual problem with origin issues, as I've mentioned before, is that origin stories of older characters have been endlessly reprinted, retold, and altered over the years. The first origin issue is nothing special anymore.

I should have known the best response some people would have for this would be to bring up things from decades ago.

On 12/2/2023 at 3:40 PM, VintageComics said:

I mentioned that comics used to be printed by the MILLIONS in the GA.

 Only a very small percentage; the top sellers. The majority were definitely not.

There were also a bunch of comics printed over a million in the 1990s. So what?

On 12/2/2023 at 3:40 PM, VintageComics said:

Then they went to being printed by the 100,000's in the SA

They were already there.

On 12/2/2023 at 3:40 PM, VintageComics said:

and by the 10,000's in the BA. 

No.

On 12/2/2023 at 3:40 PM, VintageComics said:

And I've already mentioned declining subscription numbers IN THIS THREAD.

The better question is not whether subscription numbers are plummeting or not.

The better question might be to ask which subscription numbers are staying higher than their peers within each era?

Why are you talking about subscription numbers? Subscriptions have never been a big thing for comic books.

On 12/2/2023 at 3:24 PM, Hamlet said:

You could say the same thing about 1st appearances, but the market has gone in the opposite direction for those.

An origin (that isn't in the same story as the first appearance) is just another story. There's only one first appearance (no, we aren't getting into brief/full here).

On 12/2/2023 at 11:00 AM, VintageComics said:

There you go. 

Historically, IIRC classic covers did NOT sell for as much as "origin stories" pre internet. 

It was the advent of the internet - and CGC is definitely a product of the internet - that drove demand to a cover market and suppressed prices of origin stories. 

I remember chasing "origin stories" fervently as a kid. They were hot keys in the 70's and 80's (I stopped collecting in the 90's).

If an origin story was reprinted, everyone still wanted it. 

By the time the 2000s came around, covers began to overtake and now they are considered the ultimate collecting goal. 

I give you LB Cole covers as the perfect example.

Even 10 years ago you could purchase LB Cole covers for a few $100. I know because I bought a set of high grade LB Cole cover books and sold them here.

Now those same books are going for $1000's and $10,000s. 

Does ANYONE know which stories are in those LB Cole books? Likely not. 

The actual problem with origin issues, as I've mentioned before, is that origin stories of older characters have been endlessly reprinted, retold, and altered over the years. The first origin issue is nothing special anymore.

If it's not The Official Marvel Index to the X-Men, this is the closest thing I can think of, but it still doesn't quite match the question.

On 12/1/2023 at 3:21 PM, VintageComics said:

They basically told me that Manga is like The Simpsons

Well, they do both suck. But The Simpsons used to be great, so the comparison fails there.

On 12/1/2023 at 3:21 PM, VintageComics said:

they have a huge amount of social commentary

Wait, is social commentary good, or bad? I'm confused. Maybe only some is good?

On 12/1/2023 at 2:56 AM, NP_Gresham said:

So Wolverines first appearance was an ad page in DD #115?

That's not a good comparison, even if ads were appearances.

1. That was actually Wolverine in the ad, not just some throwaway character with a similar name.

2. The ads for Incredible Hulk 181 still don't even predate Incredible Hulk 181, let alone Incredible Hulk 180.

Not this again!

On 11/25/2023 at 9:57 PM, piper said:

 

Because people made a mockery of the "Comics Related" part of the name for years. It was long past due.

On 11/22/2023 at 11:12 PM, Rallas said:

I believe only 4000 of these APV's were printed, and only 10-15% are estimated to have survived.

According to what reputable source?

On 11/22/2023 at 10:02 AM, sagii said:

Of course, you understand those rankings are only for slabs (with a single signature) that have been sold through venues tracked by GPA and not necessarily reflective of the CGC-graded totals.

On 11/21/2023 at 7:53 AM, MutantMike said:

My LCS has some big runs of minor superheroes with not huge value but he has 5 comics per bag, not board and has them tight in a long box. he says they are very safe this way, calls it a "brick"

 

You heard of this?

If bricks aren't made perfectly, it is very easy to cause spine curls and/or edge bends.

1. There are very few, if any, CGC 9.9s or 10s of most books, simply because CGC is not in the habit of giving out those grades.

2. There are actually 8 copies of ASM 252 that have been graded 9.9 by CGC. I don't know what you're looking at.

On 11/14/2023 at 6:55 AM, lostboys said:

Well, if someone tried to duplicate this "error" and sent it in to CGC...it would get a purple label...no?

No.

On 11/14/2023 at 6:55 AM, lostboys said:

While OPs copy should get a blue label and notation...no?

No.

On 11/14/2023 at 9:44 AM, LowGradeBronze said:

Surely, interior cover missing, for whatever reason, would get a 0.5 'incomplete' grade.

Sure, if it wasn't Qualified, which it almost certainly would be.

This may be a manufacturing error, but it's not a misprint.

Missing and/or extra wraps are not that unusual, though they certainly aren't common.

On 11/13/2023 at 2:33 PM, marvelmaniac said:

Contrary to what you are saying, the emblem appears to have been cut out.

No, the interior cover is missing.

On 11/10/2023 at 3:14 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

I think they lock all the posts once the questions have been answered in that forum.

Yeah, it's the nature of that forum. It's not meant for ongoing threads.

On 11/7/2023 at 3:03 PM, avidcollector80 said:

I find it difficult to believe that "THREE" graders looked at this book

As you should.

https://www.cgccomics.com/grading/cgc-guarantee/