RockMyAmadeus

This is contrary to the basic laws of economics. What you are saying does not exist. Supply and demand are inseparable. They are two sides of the same coin. If you don't believe that, your argument is with the laws of economics, not me. RMA is on target. It is supply AND demand, not supply OR demand. I agree with most everything that has been said. However, as we define supply, there are other factors to consider besides simply print run. A couple of those factor are market bottleneck (how long does it take to get that supply to market) and who controls the supply (dealers, speculators, collectors, others?). These will both influence prices in the short and long term and affect what is the true supply- that being the supply available in the market. Yes, when you're dealing with tangible goods, it is the available supply that determines price according to demand. And this is where a lot of people make a lot of money. Diamonds are filthy common, they're the street rats of fine gems, but the market for them is very tightly controlled, which is why you have to pay $2,000 for a nice 1 carat solitaire. It should be understand, when discussing supply and demand with regards to tangible goods, that it always means the available supply. Unavailable supply has no effect, by definition.

Demand exceeding supply. Are people printing copies in their basement? Is Marvel still printing them? The demand has exceeded the supply, and thus, the price rises. This isn't rocket surgery.

This is contrary to the basic laws of economics. What you are saying does not exist. Supply and demand are inseparable. They are two sides of the same coin. If you don't believe that, your argument is with the laws of economics, not me. This is where you are missing the truth which is right in front of you. I suppose. Anything's possible. Ok. I'll give it my best shot! Says WHO? According to WHO? If the demand is there, it will go up in price! It doesn't matter if the print run is 10 gajillion, if 11 gajillion people WANT it, it rises in PRICE! Where did you get the idea that I said anything about a "high print run" = "no value"? It is supply AND demand. Conversely, and also true, it is demand AND supply! They both work TOGETHER, because they are two sides of the same coin. Which is........? You haven't made any point here. What do you mean, "plenty of copies"? According to who? Relative to what? The market disagrees, which is why the price has risen.

None of the books you mentioned had anything other than average print runs. That's why they are so expensive, while Spiderman #1, for example, is not. I said as long as there is demand for the book, try understanding what you've read. There is no demand for a Spider-Man 1 or an X-Men 1 Really? There's no demand for Todd McFarlane's Spiderman #1...? Fascinating! Okay, I agree with your sarcasm on this, but Spider-Man #1 is certainly not comparable with an important first appearance. I think this is what threw me in your original response to Kevin76. It's simply too much of a reach. That wasn't the point I was making (that it was comparable in importance.) The point is that, if Spiderman #1. which was the single highest selling comic book of 1990 (and, indeed, up to that point in the modern era), had a print run the same as Amazing Spiderman #300, it, too, would be a $XXX book. Spiderman #1 is a first issue Spiderman by the most popular artist to draw the character of all time. It is not without its merits. Contrary to Kevin's assertion that there is "no demand for Spiderman #1 or X-Men #1", there is tremendous demand for both of these books. There were 47 sales in the Copper section of Comics on eBay in the last month of X-Men #1, in various flavors, and 35 in the modern, using "X-Men #1 Lee" as the search string. Actually sold! There were 35+ "Spiderman #1 McFarlane" in all flavors, sold in the last two months, and when "McFarlane" is taken out, the number goes higher. There were 83 sales of Hulk #181, in all grades, in the last month on eBay. In other words....there were as many sales of X-Men #1 as there were Hulk #181 on eBay in the last month. The problem is, of course, that there are 8 million+ copies of X-Men #1 floating around, so the price isn't going to be high. But it would be a great mistake to claim there is "no demand" for those books. By contrast, there is no demand for Rom #36, which had two sales in the last three months. And, I'll point out again...both Hulk #181 and GSXM #1 were not considered "important first appearance issues" until well after they were produced...and NM #98 and BA #12 were ignored for literal decades. No, there is substantial demand for all of these books...but the supply is what determines their disparate values. Lots of demand + not as much supply = higher prices.

This is contrary to the basic laws of economics. What you are saying does not exist. Supply and demand are inseparable. They are two sides of the same coin. If you don't believe that, your argument is with the laws of economics, not me.

9.0?? Throw it back!

None of the books you mentioned had anything other than average print runs. That's why they are so expensive, while Spiderman #1, for example, is not. I said as long as there is demand for the book, try understanding what you've read. There is no demand for a Spider-Man 1 or an X-Men 1 Really? There's no demand for Todd McFarlane's Spiderman #1...? Fascinating!

None of the books you mentioned had anything other than average print runs. That's why they are so expensive, while Spiderman #1, for example, is not. No, they are so expensive because they are first appearances and the major keys of their time. Right. Tastes great, less filling. Because, as everyone knows, if there were 10 million copies of Hulk #181 floating around, it would still sell for $X,XXX in 9.X grades. Right...? I see. So, supply is significantly less important than demand. Interesting. No, it is BOTH supply AND demand that determine value. Anyone...like you, and Kevin76...trying to claim that demand is more important than supply...or vice versa...doesn't have the whole picture, and is going to come to faulty conclusions. You are quite correct...they are not.

None of the books you mentioned had anything other than average print runs. That's why they are so expensive, while Spiderman #1, for example, is not. X-Force #2 had an average print run for its time period as well........ X-Force #2 didn't have an average print run at all. It was the 4th highest selling book of all of 1991, after X-Men #1, X-Force #1, and Robin II: The Joker's Wild #1. But you knew that. I understand his point, and it's still inaccurate. The books he cited all had print runs in the 200-400k range...not the million+ range (and for BA #12, even lower...the Cap City orders for that book were 19,200! ) Add to that, the fact that most of them were ignored for years, sometimes decades, after they came out, and attrition took its toll. The OPG for GSXM #1 in 1978? $1.80. That is why they have value. Hulk #181 may appear to be ubiquitous, but it's not any more common than any other book of its era, and certainly LESS common than, say, the average Amazing Spiderman from the same period. I know that may not make sense intuitively, because we see Hulk #181 everywhere...but that's only because the demand is crazy.

So...the qualified grade is what it would be without the plate. I kept the pancake. I was going to try to scan it, but it dried out and twisted up. Needs a press. I dunno...have you ever tried hydrating a pancake...?

None of the books you mentioned had anything other than average print runs. That's why they are so expensive, while Spiderman #1, for example, is not.

Which one are you...? Isn't it obvious? Yes. Yes it is.

No, it wouldn't. Legends #3 came out the same month as Superman #1. At that time, Byrne was red hot, having, by virtue of the then-current MOS mini, pulled DC ahead of sales over Marvel for the first time in 15 years. Legends was a very big hit for the company, and sold a bazillion copies. X-Factor #6, however, did not. You would be quite wrong, on several points. X-Force #2 had a print run of over a million. It was the #1 selling comic book the month it was published. It was also printed in 1991. Both Solar and Magnus #1 were published before X-Force #2. In fact, Magnus #1-4 were published before X-Force #2. I'm not sure where you got the "couple of years before Valiant." Legends was DC's first company wide crossover since Crisis, which proved to be a phenomenal hit. It also featured the art of John Byrne, which, as I said before, was also quite hot. It was not only NOT "second tier", it was a smash success for DC. Much smaller numbers than X-Force #2? Sure...but not significantly smaller, no. And there were also cases of the book sitting around, with many, many, many high grade copies still easily available. We shall see. You have gotten several vital facts wrong. Now, I'm not attacking you...but why should anyone take your opinion as educated if you get vital facts wrong? You have to have your facts straight before making any reliable predictions.

Which one are you...?

That's really unfortunate. Those 1973 (74) Marvels had really delicate cover stock, and so many offset staples. When you press an offset staple, you can put outward pressure on the interior pages at that point, and the staple holes can open easily. It's not something that should be done unless one is extremely, extremely gentle.

No one ever asks me to write articles.

She's cute.

That's true. Post count does not illustrate a broad knowledge of comics. A broad knowledge of comics illustrates a broad knowledge of comics. However... Having a high post count generally demonstrates participation, and regardless of who you are, or where you post, when you come into a new community as a newb, you learn the culture and earn the respect of the people who came before you prior to presuming to tell others how they should post. Really? 40,000 posts in 10 years = 4,000 posts a year = 11 or so posts a day. Not all that much free time required. I post maybe once a day and have been for a couple years, that hardly qualifies me a new. 11 posts a day is cool but if you want to post in a meaningful way that amount of posts takes up too much time. To be fair it takes about ten minutes to learn the culture here and respecting people just because they have posted a lot makes no sense but I will not dribble on and on because inevitably I will get someone complaining that this is a copper heating up thread and that's fair. Several points: Newbness is a state of mind. One can be a member here for a decade, and still be a newb. One can be here for a month, and they are no longer a newb. It all depends on personality and outlook. Who decides what posts are "meaningful"? The person posting. 1,000 words can be meaningless noise, while a single emoticon can convey a world of meaning. It takes much more than "10 minutes" to learn the culture here. I didn't say anything about respecting someone because they post a lot, but even in that, there's still a measure of respect accorded those who have "come before us", until proven otherwise. That's why a Kevin76 gets a measure of respect: he's been here a long time. He's a complete dangleberry, but he's earned a level of leeway that newbs cannot, and should not, expect. Some people call it "that's just the way so and so is"...so be it. It's still a measure of acknowledgement.

To signify the seminal role that CGC has taken in the slabbed comic industry. (thumbs u CGC pancake TATs are wicked fast! They forgot to note "1st Appearance of Flapjack" on the label Quite useless, especially now that the price has gone stratospheric after an appearance in the Agents of IHOP TV show. This thread needs to be renamed...it has moved on from cupcakes to "cakes in general", be they cup, pan, bundt, yellow, urinal, etc.

Crsipy edges. Thankfully, not burnt.

Epic meme is epic.

That's true. Post count does not illustrate a broad knowledge of comics. A broad knowledge of comics illustrates a broad knowledge of comics. However... Having a high post count generally demonstrates participation, and regardless of who you are, or where you post, when you come into a new community as a newb, you learn the culture and earn the respect of the people who came before you prior to presuming to tell others how they should post. Really? 40,000 posts in 10 years = 4,000 posts a year = 11 or so posts a day. Not all that much free time required.

He did something similar with his Alpha Flight #17 sale. Described it as "First appearance of Big Hero Six" in big bold copy, and then formatted less prominently in the paragraph following it "by their creators," as if the first work by a creative team that's not an actual first appearance is something that collectors care about. Clearly intended to deceive people into thinking that it was the first appearance of Big Hero Six. Most people know what they are buying, you're trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. You can't do anything about who writes what on their auctions, the buyer needs to understand what they are buying. It really has no effect on you on, so why not just worry about yourself? I'm not in Divad's corner since i've had beef with him in the past but people on here are splitting hairs on his product descriptions about what is "exactly correct to a tee" needs to stop, try going outside for a walk, get some exercise since I know most of you people could use it. Maybe the buyer should be cognizant of what they're buying, but that doesn't absolve his responsibility. How would you feel if a parent or relative of yours got fleeced from a greasy salesman? What he's doing is dishonest, plain and simple. Again, it doesn't relate to you. eBay does have a return policy and even some sellers don't know everything. I think you guys are just tired of seeing him post his auction results in the thread, well...I'm tired of reading off topic nonsense like this in the thread. Maybe you should call the eBay police and tell them you don't agree with his comic descriptions, besides, most people don't even read them anyway, they just hit the BIN/Bid button. If the buyer buys it and is happy with it, then who is he hurting? You? The collector sitting on his over weight rear end at the comic store playing magic cards with teenagers? The guy down the street? Ever think the buyer knows and actually wants the issue? Maybe he's trying to put an Alpha Flight run together? Maybe he's trying to grab all the Big Hero 6 appearances...You're not the buyer and you're not a mind reader and that goes for anyone complaining about someone's auction trying to sell a book, you don't know the buyer's intent. Plain and simple. And to answer your question about my parents or one of my relatives being taken advantage of "greasy salesman" I'd laugh at them for being so stupid and not doing your research beforehand. I work in the trading division of an investment firm of 39 billion AUM, I couldn't care less about a guy making $10-15 on a comic book. What's he doing is sleazy, if you want to hang out with this clown be my guest. I have to be honest here bud, other than the grammar police nothing irks me more than those who brag about their job in investments or stocks in a comic book forum. That's funny, because nothing irks me more than others telling people what irks them on a comic book forum Nothing irks me more than telling people who tell others they irk them about their irking and when it irks...wait... To be fair, what really irks me is when noobs try to tell other people on here how to act....but I didn't want to be mean to the n00b. Damn newbs!

That's not what your listing said. You are purposefully deceiving people. I wonder if you've always been this way and I jus never noticed it. I used to think you were a boardie with integrity. Now I don't see any. Purposefully overgrazing and now outright lying. He did something similar with his Alpha Flight #17 sale. Described it as "First appearance of Big Hero Six" in big bold copy, and then formatted less prominently in the paragraph following it "by their creators," as if the first work by a creative team that's not an actual first appearance is something that collectors care about. Clearly intended to deceive people into thinking that it was the first appearance of Big Hero Six. Most people know what they are buying, you're trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. You can't do anything about who writes what on their auctions, the buyer needs to understand what they are buying. It really has no effect on you on, so why not just worry about yourself? I'm not in Divad's corner since i've had beef with him in the past but people on here are splitting hairs on his product descriptions about what is "exactly correct to a tee" needs to stop, try going outside for a walk, get some exercise since I know most of you people could use it. Maybe the buyer should be cognizant of what they're buying, but that doesn't absolve his responsibility. How would you feel if a parent or relative of yours got fleeced from a greasy salesman? What he's doing is dishonest, plain and simple. Again, it doesn't relate to you. eBay does have a return policy and even some sellers don't know everything. I think you guys are just tired of seeing him post his auction results in the thread, well...I'm tired of reading off topic nonsense like this in the thread. Maybe you should call the eBay police and tell them you don't agree with his comic descriptions, besides, most people don't even read them anyway, they just hit the BIN/Bid button. If the buyer buys it and is happy with it, then who is he hurting? You? The collector sitting on his over weight rear end at the comic store playing magic cards with teenagers? The guy down the street? Ever think the buyer knows and actually wants the issue? Maybe he's trying to put an Alpha Flight run together? Maybe he's trying to grab all the Big Hero 6 appearances...You're not the buyer and you're not a mind reader and that goes for anyone complaining about someone's auction trying to sell a book, you don't know the buyer's intent. Plain and simple. And to answer your question about my parents or one of my relatives being taken advantage of "greasy salesman" I'd laugh at them for being so stupid and not doing your research beforehand. I work in the trading division of an investment firm of 39 billion AUM, I couldn't care less about a guy making $10-15 on a comic book. What's he doing is sleazy, if you want to hang out with this clown be my guest. I have to be honest here bud, other than the grammar police nothing irks me more than those who brag about their job in investments or stocks in a comic book forum. That's funny, because nothing irks me more than others telling people what irks them on a comic book forum Nothing irks me more than telling people who tell others they irk them about their irking and when it irks...wait...