RockMyAmadeus

Good thing I didn't waste the time going down to Newport...what this guy should do is simply partially refund everyone's payment an amount the BUYER thinks is fair, Shipping long boxes back and forth is a spendy and fruitless endeavor, unless the seller pays for it. Hold his feet to the fire.

Alan Moore was writing comics before Frank Miller.

Before I even had the chance to contact him regarding the return of the books he filed a PAYPAL claim which paypal denied him!

I am not taking sides.

However, you need to understand that Paypal denied the claim because they automatically deny any and all "Significantly Not As Described" claims (as opposed to "Item Not Received" claims) when items are not purchased through eBay.

That's the way they do it and they state it up front.

They do not even CONSIDER the merits of the case...any not as described case...that didn't go through eBay.

Therefore, it would be inappropriate to assume that Paypal "sided with the seller" and the buyer is "wrong" or "lost" an adjudication. That is not the case.

Hope that helps.

It's been pretty well documented since its inception. In fact, if i remember correctly, it was NTT that really firmed up Marv's choice of George to pencil....and that (NTT) was being worked on during 1980/81.

No need to lie, and would easily be found out if he was.

Fantastic!

Cool! Now it's what, $300?

Nice!

How much were you selling them for? (this is not an offer, I'm just curious.)

Those are pretty kewl Kitefun. Were they more for promotional use, or did they all have individual storys??

 

Kite Fun Books were from 1953 to about 1998, each was distributed in the spring of each year at schools to promote kite safety. Don't fly your kite around our power lines.

You know, I KNOW I had some of those as a kid, because I lived in PG&E territory...

I wonder wheer they went.....

yeah...Marv Wolfman had been planning Crisis for quite some time. It was definitely not "DC's answer" to Secret Wars.

(thumbs u

All I know is the more I work on GA books the more I notice a marked difference between the paper used within the same tile/publisher over years (war years especially.) let alone what paper different publishers used compared to another to save money. Until you try to match page quality and thickness for donor material you never realize just how different the paper can be.

 

 

That's the tricky part.

 

And that's why pressing GA books scare the living @%#$&* out of me. They're like a box of chocolates...

They melt when left out in the sun...?

She was the colorist, and she created the explosion behind the characters on the cover.

 

The singer Janet Jackson?

 

No, the colorist Janet Jackson.

 

You mean the pigmentedly gifted Janet Jackson, gotta be PC these days.

Hehehe...JJ worked for Marvel Comics in the 80's, then moved to Valiant in the very early 90's. She's a great person, and lots of fun to hang out with.

She once shared a studio with Bill Willingham of Fables fame. They (Texas Comics) put out one comic: Justice Machine Annual #1.

She was the colorist, and she created the explosion behind the characters on the cover.

 

The singer Janet Jackson?

No, the colorist Janet Jackson.

You aren't going to find that smoking gun article. The question you're asking may seem like a deep, scientific issue for you, but for a conservator, whether or not to press an artifact tends not to be a huge internal struggle. Their scholarly articles will deal with far more sophisticated topics. Pressing is "Conservation 101."

 

Thank you for your many posts in this thread. They have been thoroughly enjoyable, and totally lacking in insult. Thank you!

She was the colorist, and she created the explosion behind the characters on the cover.

Does it really matter in the end if swampy #20 is 1/84 & Swampy #21 is 2/84 and TMNT is also 1984, it would seem the swampies beat it time wise, so it would be easy enough to call jan. 1984 the start of the copper age.

I would say the start of the copper age is GI JOE#1 in 1982.

brought many new non-comic collectors into the market.

issue 1 and 2 both went for over 20 dollars right off the bat.

 

 

my second choice would be NEW TEEN TITANS #1 as it made DC respectable again and thus opened the door for Swamp Thing #20/21, without NEW TEEN TITANS #1 success who is to say DC would have took a chance with Alan Moore?

 

Because Swamp Thing was a low selling title, already slated for cancellation.

 

There was no "chance" to take.

 

NTT #1 is Bronze Age. It came out a scant two months after X-Men #137.

 

GI Joes were not immediate hits, which is why the early issues were so very hard to find for quite some time. GI Joe started to pick up steam right after the TV series debuted in Sept 1983 as a 5 part mini, a year and a half after GI Joe #1 hit the stands in March of 1982.

 

maybe the bronze age ended with X-men #137(death of Phoenix) and copper age begins two months later with NEW TEEN TITANS #1 ?

No. NTT in and of itself was nowhere near important enough to usher in a whole age. Besides...1970-1980 is too short a time period for "an age."

If we're going to get "Ageist", we have to remember that they are delineated by a radical shift in the industry. In 1938, it was the intro of the Superhero. In 1956, it was the RE-Intro of the Superhero. In 1970, it was the greatly expanded publication of "socially relevant", "sword & sorcery", and NON-superhero comics.

(and if people want to argue "Golden Age was only 1938-1945, I'll argue with them that it lasted until 1955, and that the "Atom Age" has little to support it.)

 

I'm not educated enough to have all the answers about the "copper age" but I can tell you GI Joe got me started in comic collecting back in the day! Man I worked like a crazy person mowing and anything else I could do to get my hands on those fist 15 or so I missed! .

So, you started collecting in late 1983?

(thumbs u

Signed at NYCC, first in an eventual series that will encompass #436-442.

One of only TWO signed in 9.8. Simonson is my hero.

Both signed by Perez.

Also both signed by Perez.

By far, some of the awesomest books I own. Came from my own collection, #2 from a pool of SEVEN copies I had. #1 is the one and only Sig Series in this grade.

And, the piéce du resistance...

All signed by Jim Shooter & Janet Jackson. Yes, those are all Harby 1s, and yes they are all Sig Series 9.8s.

(As always, sorry for the crappy pics. )

Does it really matter in the end if swampy #20 is 1/84 & Swampy #21 is 2/84 and TMNT is also 1984, it would seem the swampies beat it time wise, so it would be easy enough to call jan. 1984 the start of the copper age.

I would say the start of the copper age is GI JOE#1 in 1982.

brought many new non-comic collectors into the market.

issue 1 and 2 both went for over 20 dollars right off the bat.

 

 

my second choice would be NEW TEEN TITANS #1 as it made DC respectable again and thus opened the door for Swamp Thing #20/21, without NEW TEEN TITANS #1 success who is to say DC would have took a chance with Alan Moore?

Because Swamp Thing was a low selling title, already slated for cancellation.

There was no "chance" to take.

NTT #1 is Bronze Age. It came out a scant two months after X-Men #137.

GI Joes were not immediate hits, which is why the early issues were so very hard to find for quite some time. GI Joe started to pick up steam right after the TV series debuted in Sept 1983 as a 5 part mini, a year and a half after GI Joe #1 hit the stands in March of 1982.

Cool Joker cover:

I'm jealous...sweet book

 

yeah, she's a beaut. I don't think I have any 9.8 potentials copies.

 

Although.....I would be imPRESSed if I did find one....

 

Huh?

 

I don't have any 9.8 potential copies of this book, and I was making an oft-repeated pressing joke.

 

Ah.

 

Just to make clear. This is a book I purchased off the rack and had slabbed - guaranteed to never have been pressed.

Oh, I see. No, I was in no way suggesting that your book was pressed in any way. I was just making a joke about how I could possibly press one of my copies into a 9.8.

Sorry if you thought I was referring to yours. 'Twas not my intention.

Cool Joker cover:

I'm jealous...sweet book

 

yeah, she's a beaut. I don't think I have any 9.8 potentials copies.

 

Although.....I would be imPRESSed if I did find one....

 

Huh?

I don't have any 9.8 potential copies of this book, and I was making an oft-repeated pressing joke.

Note that you're talking about Alan Moore the WRITER and not Swamp Thing #21 the COMIC. (Which means that Swamp Thing #20 is more important.)

If you want to say SOTST #20 is more important, that's fine, and there's a good case for that if you're just talking about "the debut of a very important writer."

However...just like Amazing Spiderman #300 is more important than #298 because of the STORY, rather than the ARTIST, I'm going to stick with #21 for the same basic reason.

It really boils down to personal taste after that...and personal taste is indisputable.

Is Green Lantern #76 special because it's by Neal Adam, the addition of Green Arrow, or because of its social relevance?

Neal Adams + "social relevance." It is, by leaps and bounds, the most important and most valuable Neal Adams book because of the story. I don't think anyone really cares that much about the addition of GA.

Cool Joker cover:

 

 

I'm jealous...sweet book

yeah, she's a beaut. I don't think I have any 9.8 potentials copies.

Although.....I would be imPRESSed if I did find one....

A well written post, but I am not arguing any of that. I am simply saying, in determining an age ending or a new one beginning, I think the massive change that comics went through after 50 years is more important. Another important example is Disney comics also ceased during 1984 with Donald Duck being it's last hold out. It's not that each genre was so important to comic collectors, it's that they were to the public, and that is when that changed, and that is why to me, Bronze ends in 1984. the sole reason.

 

I don't say that copper starts in 1984 because of the B&W explosion, but I do say it's one of the many changes that happened to start Copper. there have been underground & alternative comics for 2 decades by that point, they gained in popularity because of the direct shop. I would say that Alan Moore Starting Swamp thing is a more important start of Copper then the B&W explosion because that changed comics to the core in a larger degree then the B&W explosion.

 

As a side note, I read all of those B&Ws growing up, and some of my favorite comics of all time are things like Love & rockets, Flaming Carrot & Yummy Fur. I am not looking at these with prejudice against them.

 

Matt, I'm not deriding your position, but I think if you simply look at influence (what the other generational markers hinge on. Superman, Flash, don't know the bronze aged marker), it becomes clear that TMNT 1 is the clear frontrunner. (and I think your idea that Moore's Swamp Thing run has real legs)

 

 

4 movies

3 or more cartoon series

dozens of toy lines

6+ comic book lines, and still printing currently

trades that have almost never gone out of print

large cultural influence (adjective, adjective, adjective, noun comics!!!)

 

It's clear as day to me.

Ehhhhhhh.....

I dunno if I buy this.

As far as the INDUSTRY is concerned, Turtles had very, very little impact after the B&W explosion imploded. Turtles have had their ups and downs, including several lapses in publishing schedule. They spent most of the 90's/2000's in the doldrums.

Moore'e Swamp Thing, however? Vastly, vastly influential to the industry.

Culturally, no doubt, Turtles is much, much bigger, no doubt. But in terms of overall impact to the industry? Moore's Swamp Thing was far reaching and cast a wide net deep AND wide amongst comics creators.

You can make a case that, without Moore's Swamp Thing, not only would there never have been the obvious...Vertigo, Watchmen, Hellblazer, Sandman, Preacher, Animal Man, etc.....but it's quite possible there may not have been a Hellblazer movie, a Watchmen movie, a League of Extraordinary Gentlemen movie, and even a Sin City and Hellboy.

Swamp Thing just blows Turtles out of the water as far as the industry impact goes.

And this is common...in many other fields, there are masters who are recognized only by others in the industry....they may even have a monstrous influence on those who ARE famous, but they may not be famous themselves, at least to the outside world.

They call those people a "director's director", or a "composer's composer", an "actor's actor" etc.

Alan Moore is a "writer's writer" and Swamp Thing is a "series's series."

Hmmmm...yes, you're right, I'd forgotten that Day pencilled the issue....but Totleben's inks are so distinctive and strong, it wasn't that much of a change.

 

 

Isn't Totlebon one of the most underated artists of the past 30 years? All of his stuff on the "Moore books" (Swamp Thing, MM) is just fantastic. So detailed and precise. Just beautiful.

John Totleben is one of the greatest artists since Barry Windsor Smith and Bernie Wrightson.

WILDLY, WILDLY underrated.

You want brilliance? Swamp Thing #53.

Every page a visual feast.

And seriously, if some of you out there reading this have NOT read Alan moore's Swamp Thing, come on....what the hell are you waiting for?

I've convinced people who have NEVER...IN THEIR LIVES...read a DC book to read Swamp Thing and they LOVED it. Committed Marvel guys? Doesn't matter.

Go read it, people. #20-#64. You won't be disappointed.

Hmmmm...yes, you're right, I'd forgotten that Day pencilled the issue....but Totleben's inks are so distinctive and strong, it wasn't that much of a change.

Issue #20 was much more of a wrap-up to several Pasko threads.

#21 was the issue that did it. #21 was revolutionary. Even if #20 was classic Moore, #21 was...something totally different.

It's like Hulk #180 and #181. The first gives you a taste...a great taste, no doubt....but the second was really what started it all.

I have no problem marking #21 as the beginning, rather than #20. DC apparently didn't either, with the first trade starting at #21.