heartened

+1 It's why I would never consider going after a Death of Capt. Marvel page. Scott DOCM is a key book. All the pages are done in maker. Some are faded more than others, but some are really in great shape still. I used to own probably 8-10 pages from the book and the differences are large. The importance of this book outweighs the fading issue though, in my opinion. The pages are beautiful, oversized, and the story is great. Worth having a page in the collection, regardless of the fading.

The ASM 322 splash just sold at CLink for $16,888. This is why I have a problem with McSpidey being $20-$30K - this is a good-looking, p. 1 splash from the main Spidey title featuring a pretty darn good, large, front-facing, full-body Spidey action shot with one of the more memorable supporting cast (Silver Sable) from the run, with lots of good detail to boot. This is a solid A splash as far as I'm concerned, and it finished closer to $15K than $20K. While I'm sure there are McSpidey interiors that would fetch $20-$30K, I think they might more properly be classified as A+ pages. I gotta disagree with you, Gene. I thought the inks looked faded, especially on Spidey, and I avoided bidding on this one because of that. I'm sure there are others who felt the same. How much of a discount do you think that (may have) resulted in? Still looks well bought to me, and, given the McSpidey auction results over the past year, this is far from the only data point that suggests that McSpidey interiors are not where they were as recently as 2012. Yup. While I don't doubt that the faded inks suppressed bidding, it does seem that market fatigue has set in for anything less than A+ McFarlane. This has also happened with DKR. Some tapping of the brakes on an otherwise runaway train. The DKR pages seem to still be pretty strong, no? Hard to get anything with Bat man or Joker on it for less than 25K. Even the one in CLink when for that range. Exceptional pages the sky's the limit still.

The Leach MM page went for almost 29K. Keeping Leach MM in the 10K+ range I think is pretty safe at this point, even if some argue this is an A+ page.

I think they are doing a disservice by not just letting the story sell itself. There is not enough story in each issue, and so people are not getting hooked. It may have to build some momentum and word of mouth.

Thanks for posting that. It's nice that the new series is pretty comprehensive in terms of all the relevant stories.

Very nice!!

Anyone know the print runs of the different variant covers for issues #1 and #2 that just came out? Which variants are the rarest?

For me, the page where he transforms and is standing there in his own flames, and the page where he leaps in the air saying "I'm back!" are by far the two best pages in the first book, A+ for sure. I've been thinking a lot about why I like the Leach art. His art is very smooth, with excellent shadowing, and an assured stroke. Felix's pages are exquisite; it's not easy to draw women that well, and he does a tremendous job making her elegant yet strong at the same time. The shadowing on the bedsheet in particular on Felix's page is really phenomenal. When I look at the Davis pages, they don't have all of that. I own one Davis page from the run, but overall the Davis issues seem more stiff and less "alive" to me. Now, I realize Davis went on to more mainstream fame, but that should really have no bearing here. Let a couple more issues go by, then look back at the Leach vs. Davis art. Totleben's art was the best on this run, followed by Leach and then by Davis. The rest was solid too but these three are the ones that will stand the test of time and be valued accordingly. Just some thoughts, for what it's worth...

What? You're crazy! That one doesn't' even have miracleman in costume!

Just read #2. Better than #1, of course. We get into the fight between MM and KM for 12 pages, which is really nice and memorable. Then the Yesterday's Gambit, which is also nice (hadn't read this before). Once again, though, they add the Mick Anglo story which try as I may I can't bring myself to read. I sure hope they stop adding in the Anglo stuff, as it doesn't hold up at all and it just makes it more obvious that you're left wanting for more of the real story. Since they are planning on bringing the numbering back in sync with the Eclipse run, and since #8 was a filler the first go around, I think soon the issues will be mainly story. That'll be most welcome!

Silly.

The writing in ST 21 and MM was on par with Watchmen. KJ not so much. Guess we'll have to disagree on that one! No worries! Just expressing my opinion. There's no right answer here, it's all subjective. I love it all, but in my mind that's how I rate the writing overall.

I don't know the market for Leach MM pages, but, judging from your description, it sounds like it's small, illiquid and, one might say, "trades by appointment". And, that being the case, I'm not sure how realistic these values are...I mean, let's face it, when people think about $10-$20K pages, nobody outside of like 5 people would probably even think to consider Leach MM. There were several sales of Jose Gonzalez Vampirella splashes a while back in the $5K range (back when there were none to be had and when $5K was real money). Probably about as many data points for those as 5-figure Leach MM pages, but I wouldn't have called that a representative market level either. Hey Gene, Rarity is a factor, and I agree that it complicates things. But, this is a slippery slope. There are lots of artists who had a small body of work and command high prices because of it. A comparison here is Keith Sandman pages, or Steranko X-Men pages. Each had about the same as Leach Miracleman. I look through the list and I too agree that if I had 10-20K there's a ton of stuff that wouldn't interest me on the list. The idea is not that people will pick and choose from amongst the list, but rather IF they wanted something on the list, this gives them a price point. I paid 12K for my page, which is a A+ page, about 6 years ago. Felix's pages are more B+ pages (sorry Felix, no offense meant!! I'd gladly take them off your hands!) and he paid about 7-8K apiece, roughly 4 years ago now. And those were public auctions. There are more pages out there of course, and I suspect they will start to surface now. 10K+ seems very reasonable to me. Again, this doesn't have to be what anyone will pay, but rather what someone would have to pay IF they were interested in an A level page by said artist/run. Felix, Joseph, any comments? No offense taken, Hari! I've got nothing against B+ pages (so long as the price is right!). There are plenty of B+ pages out there I wouldn't hesitate to add to my collection (such as your KILLING JOKE pages) for the right price! I do agree that an "A" Leach MM page would be a pretty easy sell at $10K these days. I'm less sure as we approach $20K, though. Hope we get to find out at auction! Well that didn't take long. Check out the price on the Leach MM page, already at 13K after 1 day of bidding. The market is starved for this stuff. Someone's going to end up with a very expensive MIRACLEMAN page! For the record, I haven't placed a single bid. I'm not a thrill-bidder, and I also don't own enough of anything to worry about propping up its market. Good luck to the bidders on this page and most of all, congrats to the consignor! I don't know anyone with a lot of Leach MM art. You have two pages, I have a page and a cover, not sure who else owns anything, but I doubt anyone has more than 2-3 examples. I just think MM is as good or better than anything else Moore did during the 80s, and it's about time that the series moved up to the same level as V and Watchmen, and personally I think issue 15 will ultimately command the respect (and prices) of KJ pages. Eventually, KJ, MM 15, ST 21, and Watchmen 4 (in my humble opinion) will go down as the 4 best single issues he ever did, and prices will be commensurate with that title. You heard it from me first, guys! Hari Sorry, I didn't see that you'd directed a question at me earlier. I certainly agree that an A grade pure Leach MM page would command $10k+. I briefly had a really nice fight page but parted with it as part of a larger deal and have looked to replace it ever since. I (along with everyone on the Boards it now seems) was aware of the Heritage MM title page from a couple of years back and thought it might be the one. I can see why people might be sceptical about these prices given how little (and public) data there is to back this up. On one level I'm reticent about putting numbers out there lest, as noted before, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. We've all seen that after the big Frank Miller Heritage results every Frank Miller piece became supposedly worth xth of a million. I'm a big MM fan but I certainly wouldn't be putting any money on Miracleman 15 getting up to the level of Killing Joke. Although it does explain why you think I was so crazy to let go of my other MM 15 page. I'll trade you my MM 15 for one of your KJ pages though. Watchmen 4? Really? Rather than issue 5 or 6? Oops, my bad. I meant issue #9, the one with Dr. Manhattan on Mars. It's not my favorite (that goes to #6), but I think many consider #9 a high-water mark. And yes, I thought you were nuts to let go of the first page to MM 15. So, thank you for being a crazy Brit

HI Court, Actually, I think the page on Heritage is an A page. It is part of his dream sequence flashback, so not really the first apperance. There are at least 3 other pages that are much better and more important in that first story arc by Leach. Those would be A+ and the sky's the limit. For this one, it's an A page. For those of us that know the series well, just close your eyes and try to depict the best pages from MM1 (the Eclipse run). This page isn't in the top 3, although it is clearly a great page. If Felix and I are not the one's bidding this thing up to these levels right now, I suspect there's more than a handful of people interested. I disagree that Leach is not as associated with MM. He developed the look of this "new" character, alongside Moore. So, to me, Leach MM and Totleben MM are the tops (moreso Totleben for the reasons you mentioned). Davis did a great job too, but Leach and Totleben are the kings here in my opinion. Best,

The writing in ST 21 and MM was on par with Watchmen. KJ not so much.

I was referring to early bidding, in general. It's pointless, to me, unless it's thrill-bidding, or protecting a market. I don't believe anyone who bids this early in the process is genuinely bidding to win. I love MM, too (although I don't rate it quite as highly as you). I agree that #15 is an important issue. But as an OA collector, the "money" pages are a bit too gruesome for me. Like the Barbara Gordon torture pages in KJ...no thanks. I'd take your great Leach page over those (and I say that as a big fan of Totleben). Regardless, very happy MM has a second life! Hey Felix, Totally agree about early bidding. It is pointless. However, where it goes early is an indication of what types of bids folks think are totally safe. That's what's impressive here. I'm impressed myself, which is why I'm mentioning it! I did not think there'd be any reason to hit these levels early. And, like you, I'm not responsible for where this is at right now. About the content, this is true. But again, just because there may be fewer bidders does not mean that the final hammer prices will be any lower. And, many of the folks looking for MM 15 pages might already have their KJ example. Will be interesting to watch all this unfols, at any rate.

That is extremely unlikely to happen. Killing Joke is a story containing Batman and the Joker, two of the most iconic figures in comic book history. Miracleman 15 is a story containing... ...well you get my point. Whatever you say I'm not comparing them to each other. I'm comparing them to everything else out there by Moore story and art-wise. And 'Saw' made how much and had how many sequels? Fan bases can be entirely distinct yet with the final values being the same. Let's revisit this thread in a few years

I don't know the market for Leach MM pages, but, judging from your description, it sounds like it's small, illiquid and, one might say, "trades by appointment". And, that being the case, I'm not sure how realistic these values are...I mean, let's face it, when people think about $10-$20K pages, nobody outside of like 5 people would probably even think to consider Leach MM. There were several sales of Jose Gonzalez Vampirella splashes a while back in the $5K range (back when there were none to be had and when $5K was real money). Probably about as many data points for those as 5-figure Leach MM pages, but I wouldn't have called that a representative market level either. Hey Gene, Rarity is a factor, and I agree that it complicates things. But, this is a slippery slope. There are lots of artists who had a small body of work and command high prices because of it. A comparison here is Keith Sandman pages, or Steranko X-Men pages. Each had about the same as Leach Miracleman. I look through the list and I too agree that if I had 10-20K there's a ton of stuff that wouldn't interest me on the list. The idea is not that people will pick and choose from amongst the list, but rather IF they wanted something on the list, this gives them a price point. I paid 12K for my page, which is a A+ page, about 6 years ago. Felix's pages are more B+ pages (sorry Felix, no offense meant!! I'd gladly take them off your hands!) and he paid about 7-8K apiece, roughly 4 years ago now. And those were public auctions. There are more pages out there of course, and I suspect they will start to surface now. 10K+ seems very reasonable to me. Again, this doesn't have to be what anyone will pay, but rather what someone would have to pay IF they were interested in an A level page by said artist/run. Felix, Joseph, any comments? No offense taken, Hari! I've got nothing against B+ pages (so long as the price is right!). There are plenty of B+ pages out there I wouldn't hesitate to add to my collection (such as your KILLING JOKE pages) for the right price! I do agree that an "A" Leach MM page would be a pretty easy sell at $10K these days. I'm less sure as we approach $20K, though. Hope we get to find out at auction! Well that didn't take long. Check out the price on the Leach MM page, already at 13K after 1 day of bidding. The market is starved for this stuff. Someone's going to end up with a very expensive MIRACLEMAN page! For the record, I haven't placed a single bid. I'm not a thrill-bidder, and I also don't own enough of anything to worry about propping up its market. Good luck to the bidders on this page and most of all, congrats to the consignor! I don't know anyone with a lot of Leach MM art. You have two pages, I have a page and a cover, not sure who else owns anything, but I doubt anyone has more than 2-3 examples. I just think MM is as good or better than anything else Moore did during the 80s, and it's about time that the series moved up to the same level as V and Watchmen, and personally I think issue 15 will ultimately command the respect (and prices) of KJ pages. Eventually, KJ, MM 15, ST 21, and Watchmen 4 (in my humble opinion) will go down as the 4 best single issues he ever did, and prices will be commensurate with that title. You heard it from me first, guys!

I don't know the market for Leach MM pages, but, judging from your description, it sounds like it's small, illiquid and, one might say, "trades by appointment". And, that being the case, I'm not sure how realistic these values are...I mean, let's face it, when people think about $10-$20K pages, nobody outside of like 5 people would probably even think to consider Leach MM. There were several sales of Jose Gonzalez Vampirella splashes a while back in the $5K range (back when there were none to be had and when $5K was real money). Probably about as many data points for those as 5-figure Leach MM pages, but I wouldn't have called that a representative market level either. Hey Gene, Rarity is a factor, and I agree that it complicates things. But, this is a slippery slope. There are lots of artists who had a small body of work and command high prices because of it. A comparison here is Keith Sandman pages, or Steranko X-Men pages. Each had about the same as Leach Miracleman. I look through the list and I too agree that if I had 10-20K there's a ton of stuff that wouldn't interest me on the list. The idea is not that people will pick and choose from amongst the list, but rather IF they wanted something on the list, this gives them a price point. I paid 12K for my page, which is a A+ page, about 6 years ago. Felix's pages are more B+ pages (sorry Felix, no offense meant!! I'd gladly take them off your hands!) and he paid about 7-8K apiece, roughly 4 years ago now. And those were public auctions. There are more pages out there of course, and I suspect they will start to surface now. 10K+ seems very reasonable to me. Again, this doesn't have to be what anyone will pay, but rather what someone would have to pay IF they were interested in an A level page by said artist/run. Felix, Joseph, any comments? No offense taken, Hari! I've got nothing against B+ pages (so long as the price is right!). There are plenty of B+ pages out there I wouldn't hesitate to add to my collection (such as your KILLING JOKE pages) for the right price! I do agree that an "A" Leach MM page would be a pretty easy sell at $10K these days. I'm less sure as we approach $20K, though. Hope we get to find out at auction! Well that didn't take long. Check out the price on the Leach MM page, already at 13K after 1 day of bidding. The market is starved for this stuff.

Whether we do the covers or not, I think this is a great exercise we can do every January. It should be easy going forward, now that we've done it once.

One week to issue #2. That's where it heats up! I wish they had kept the same cliffhanger for issue #1. As it is now, not enough of a teaser.

I guess no one has the guts to do a cover values list? Anyone want to start us off?

People keep talking about it as a prologue, but it's an integral part of the story as you know. This is the bridge between the past and the present, and their memories of how they got their powers and how they were superheroes back then, and how they were "destroyed" is the most fascinating link Alan Moore created. I too always felt it odd, but no other character has needed such a bridge. I guess they could have kept it simpler and just said he was trapped in ice all those years, ala Captain America, or taken over by an alien power like Jean Grey/Phoenix or costume like Spidey/Venom, but I think Alan came up with something a bit more creative Er no, but the prologue isn't an integral part of the story. Which is why it never appeared in the Warrior original. Not integral, but helps with the context and backstory. It was also part of the Eclipse run, which is how most of us read it; thus, integral to those of us in the USA. Not integral to those in the UK

Looks like we're sidetracking the discussion. There is a thread on the copper age forums on miracleman - we should take this discussion over there.

I got shown this page a couple of years ago. It's a definite A. I made a stupid offer on it, the owner ultimately decided he didn't want to sell. Now that the series has a new life, he'll probably do better. No matter what, we're about to see what an A Leach MM page will go for! (Hoping it's $20K or under so I can get it thanks to Hari!) Indeed. I heard about this as well a while back, but the seller was really just fishing for interest but never took it any further. Looks like he decided to go the Heritage route. It's a very nice page, agree certainly an A page. It is part of his initial dream sequence - showing his past memories, so not truly his first appearance, but it's a great page nonetheless. And, if you get it Felix I'll take your B+ pages, thank you