LordRahl

ASM 50 sold via PM and thread closed. Thanks all!

Only 2 books for sale in today. Standard terms below apply.

1) PayPal G&S, Zelle or personal check are all fine for payment but the personal check will need to clear before I ship.

2) Shipping is at actual cost at whatever level of service you want. I do not ship media mail. I will ship to Canada, again at your cost of whatever level of service you want.  

3) No returns on CGC graded books.

4) No probies or HOS or anyone I might have on ignore.

5) Some form of I'll take it in the thread trumps any and all PM negotiations. Until you or I post I'll take it in the thread, the book is open so if someone happens to post I'll take it in thread but we've agreed to a different price via PM and just haven't posted the I'll take it in the thread yet, the in thread I'll take it by the new poster will take the book.

Does anyone recognize the second signature on this book? I know that's Frank Miller on top, but I have no idea who the bottom one is. 

On 6/5/2024 at 6:51 PM, Tony S said:

 

Back when Matt Nelson ran his own comic pressing and restoration business - Classics Incorporated - he had an article on the website that demonstrated mathematically how there should have been more 9.9's and 10's in the CGC census. The article was quite convincing. The moment CGC purchased the business and renamed it CCS, that article went poof - even though the Classics Inc website stayed active for a time. 

I think Matt was right then.  Maybe Matt still feels the same way - and as President can now do something about it.  This basically started with the infamous interview about "how is there is not a single 9.9 or 10 on a book like Ultimate Fallout ". Matt's answer was along the lines of maybe they were to focused on 9.8 and were not looking.  So lets go over those numbers. Between the 1st and 2nd printings and the variant covers of each, CGC has certified over 8,500 copies of UF 4 at 9.8 (published 2011)  and not one single book at a MINT grade of 9.9 or 10. That seems pretty darn unlikely. 

So yeah - I too have said here on this forum before that there ought to be more 9.9 and 10's. Especially of real "modern" books - say published the last 25 years. Better printing, better paper. 

100% agree on consistency being the most important quality of grading. But if something has been done consistently wrong, it needs to be fixed. Books should get the grades they deserve. Or as Steve Borock has always said, give the book the highest grade that is not wrong.  CGC has arguably not been doing that. Despite the existence of the grades of  9.9 and 10, those two  grades were more like winning lottery tickets. 

The change may be disruptive and it may generate more submissions to CGC  But that doesn't mean it should not happen. Or I suppose we could do away with 9.9 and 10 and say the ones that exist were mistakes never to be made again.  

This is so spot on, I'm going to repost it every time someone says this change shouldn't happen, with your permission.

On 6/5/2024 at 1:37 PM, Vince G said:

Noted.  However, this isn’t the only gift grade in bronze we’ve seen recently.

Oh I know. I posted a Superman 233 in the overgraded thread that is in a 9.6 holder but doesn't look any better than an 8.5. I haven't been submitting enough bronzer and silver lately to have an informed opinion on how they are grading those ages of books, copper however is getting hammered pretty regularly. Maybe they are in a "soft" grading period. Over the years people here have opined that they do that. Based on my experience, I don't think it's that but rather inconsistency between their graders. No way of verifying either way but gift grades have always been a thing.

On 6/5/2024 at 1:20 PM, wiparker824 said:

If you want to debate semantics that’s on you. But my guess is that at some point in the future they will become as typical as 9.8’s are today especially if they roll out the 9.9 pre screen. There’s really no reason why they shouldn’t already have been, particularly in the case of moderns, except that CGC was artificially capping the market at 9.8. Which whether you liked that or not it was at the very least consistent year over year. 

You say that as if semantics aren't important. They are, especially in the context of what we're discussing here, which is what is in that statement by CGC and how more 9.9/10s changes it. I'm saying that statement as written has not changed even if CGC will now give out 9.9/10s more often. Of every 10 uber high grade books graded, not just moderns but all eras since moderns aren't the only books being graded, I'm betting that on average no more than 2 will grade out 9.9/10 and the other 8 will still be 9.8. That is in line with the statement that "9.8 is typically the best grade you can get". I actually think the percentage will be much lower but I do concede that it could be 20% on moderns. On bronze and below, where I believe that even with this change, it will be less than 1% that get above a 9.8, 9.8 will most definitely be the highest grade you can typically expect.

On 6/5/2024 at 1:06 PM, wiparker824 said:

Like I said, until they roll out the 9.9 prescreen. Which, nobody is sending books they don’t expect to TYPICALLY get a 9.9 to a 9.9 prescreen so either the 9.9’s will become typical or CGC is going to launch some unicorn lottery game to get a 9.9 via prescreen. And with the increase in the numbers posted in this thread already I think we have our answer - 9.9’s are already becoming more typical than they were a year ago when they made that article.

typically

On 6/5/2024 at 12:46 PM, Vince G said:

Just take a peek at the PGM threads and you'll see some interesting results.  Particularly this one:  

 

Nothing interesting about it. Gift grades have been happening for the entire 20+ year existence of CGC. It is not anything new in any way, shape or form. Also, Hulk 181 is not copper, copper in particular is what I called out as a category that CGC is harsh on currently.

On 6/5/2024 at 7:16 AM, Vince G said:

Exactly.  They've changed their standards and have failed to inform the community of those changes.  Now some may say, "They published the grading guide," but it's pretty clear at this point that currently, they aren't even following the standards put forth in that guide.  Seen it with a number of books in the PGM thread as well as my recent submissions.  Just my opinion here but once you define and publish a standard, it shouldn't change (or become a sliding scale).

I don't think they've changed their grading standards. I think they have taken the artificial suppression of 9.9/10s away. That's a change in policy, but not their grading standards. I submit a LOT of high grade copper. They are as hard on it now as they have been the last few years. Also, it's always been a sliding scale. You are fooling yourself if you think different. GA has always been graded more leniently then SA, and SA more leniently than Copper. ALWAYS.

On 6/5/2024 at 8:11 AM, wiparker824 said:

Excerpt from an article CGC published only a year ago: https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/10325/spotting-a-98-book/

How does a book earn a grade of CGC 9.8? And what do you need to know before submitting your books for grading?

As you’re flipping through your long box of comics looking for books to send out for grading, you are understandably looking for books in the best condition. While grades of CGC 9.9 (Mint) and CGC 10 (Gem Mint) are possible, they are rare. A CGC 9.8 (Near Mint/Mint) is a nearly perfect collectible with negligible handling or manufacturing defects, and it’s about the best grade you can typically expect to get on a book.

Just need to republish this article appending the famous “Until now!” to the end of that last sentence. Then announce the low introductory price of the 9.9 prescreen.

In the end this doesn’t impact me a ton since I have more 1.8’s than 9.8’s but I do feel for the 9.8 collectors out there. 

Nothing has changed from that statement. 9.8 is STILL the best grade you can TYPICALLY expect. Given that the percentage of 9.9/10 is still going to be in the low single digits, 9.9/10 is still going to be "rare".

On 6/4/2024 at 8:30 PM, Ghost Town said:

I think there are some ASM second prints/variants that have sold for more. 

Edit: The book I'm thinking of is ASM #667, the Dell'Otto variant. It might just be a variant cover, not a reprint. 

Yeah that is a variant. I believe there are other variants as well that have sold for more but I can't think of any reprints. 

Curious if anyone knows whether another reprint book regardless of title has ever sold for more than the X Men 76?

On 6/4/2024 at 8:46 AM, Lazyboy said:

Who ever said they were as available as Directs? Nobody. I very recently stated the opposite. They are still everywhere. Directs are everywhere too, yet there are only 29 of the over 10000 recorded CGC 9.8s currently available on feeBay, because the venue is only a small (though highly visible) part of the market and basically nothing to the entire world of comics.

Kevin's point was also not specifically about CGC-graded books.

He quoted what a CGC 9.8 sells for and specifically said 9.8s. Given those 2 things, I'm pretty sure he was talking about graded copies even though he didn't specify one way or the other. And yes ebay is a small subset of the market but it is certainly an indication and given there are none there, it certainly doesn't lend itself to the theory that they are "everywhere" and also supports why a newsstand 9.8 sells for $500 versus only $100 for a direct.

On 6/3/2024 at 9:23 PM, Ghost Town said:

I thought maybe it had c-ow pages, but no. Maybe it was a bad mis-cut? Or low feedback ebay seller?

Or sold on one of the upstart CL/HA wannabes. Books are going for cheap on some of them because they don't have the audience that the established auction houses do. I wish GPA would list what site sales happened on.

On 6/3/2024 at 9:11 PM, Ghost Town said:

And 9.4s are all over the map in 9.4. Since 2021: $695, $795, $432, $249, and $1000 (last sale this year).

Wow, $249 is highway robbery. I'd have bought it for that even already having a 9.6.

On 6/3/2024 at 8:54 PM, mr_highgrade said:

What is a 9.2 going for now in days? 

I don't follow that grade so I don't know how many have sold on CL but GPA has only 1 sale in the last 7 years for $505 in 2021.

On 6/3/2024 at 8:32 PM, Ghost Town said:

It took me about 20 years to get an X-Men #79 in CGC 9.6. I bought the book below in the prehistoric days before CGC. So the #76 will take even longer.

I think Frank Giacoia or Mike Esposito inked the #76 over Kane's pencils. I wish Tom Palmer or Klaus Janson had done the inking. I think those guys always did a good job of fine-tuning Kane's pencils.

Yeah but that's a smoker of a 9.4. I'd probably take that copy over my slightly miswrapped 9.6.

On 6/3/2024 at 8:47 PM, mr_highgrade said:

What was the final hammer price? 

$6300

On 6/1/2024 at 1:56 PM, batmiesta said:

Considering the cover is supposed to be turd, someone sure liked it.  

One of my favorite X Men covers so your opinion is def not universal.

On 6/1/2024 at 5:55 PM, Ghost Town said:

I'm a big Picture Frame Marvel Fan. I'm a big Gil Kane fan. I'm a big fan of black Picture Frame books. I'm a big fan of 9.8 Picture Frame books. 

I think it's a beautiful book even with the less than stellar Kane cover.  Still, my bid didn't even come close.

Same but then I was pretty sure I wouldn't come close. Was trying to justify it because I can sell my 9.6 but still didn't come close

On 6/3/2024 at 6:05 PM, pickycollector said:

+1

Also, worth to note that I bought books at high prices during the pandemic but also sold books at high prices as well so I could consider these transactions as trades.

Today, I am selling books at lower prices but am also buying books at lower prices as well so I could consider these transactions as trades as well.

Bottomline, over the last five years, when I calculate the net amount of sales vs purchases, the result is close to nothing but would be equivalent in trading books I was no longer interested in for comics I wanted for my collection. Sounds good to me.

Pretty much the exact same boat I'm in. The only thing that's currently a thorn in my side is there are several books I've been wanting for several years now that stubbornly refuse to go down for no apparently good reason.

On 6/3/2024 at 8:49 AM, 1Cool said:

Are you buying back books now that book prices have gone back to where you were comfortable at?  I hope you are especially if you enjoyed them but I hear more and more that people have just moved on and don't intend to buy back most of the collection they sold during the spike in prices.

I am, yes. Don't get me wrong. I was bidding on books during the pandemic. I just wasn't winning. Now I am, and I like it.