LordRahl

On 1/3/2024 at 7:31 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

They stated they'd inspect themselves and "inform cgc", I took that as they wouldn't be sent in and regraded.

That was not clear then my apologies  @COMICLINK

That may have been the initial position but I think CL and any other auction house that has access to any of these will see the need for the books to be examined by CGC and reholdered with new cert numbers if proven to be clean. I didn't read all of Josh's posts but I'm honestly surprised he would not do that

On 1/3/2024 at 7:00 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

 

 

 and hear me out?

Wouldn't anyone "on the list" want to send in to get a new cert number to then "be off the list?"

Then if they aren't found to have fraud books are then liable for grading fees? (Probably due to cgc insurance wile holding them? Idk)

Yes, I think anyone that has a book on the list should send it in for review. It would be in that person's best interest no matter what the outcome. I don't think anyone suggested otherwise. I think what some of us are saying is that not EVERY book on that list is likely to be tampered with. Like the SS books I'm guessing are just normal untampered with books. This guy obviously deals in comics. I'm sure he has sold normal books in the past but obviously everything he has sold should now come into question.

On 1/3/2024 at 6:45 PM, pickycollector said:

Fortunately I do not have any book from the list but when looking at it, I see books graded several years ago. I would have expected to see listed only books graded a few years ago but the Avengers #57 8.5, for example, was graded in 2008. Is that then just the tip of the iceberg?

I'm assuming any book ever submitted by this guy is on the list. Doesn't mean anything nefarious was going on with that specific book all the way back then.

On 1/3/2024 at 5:13 PM, CJ Design said:

Maybe he has Dylan and his System also...

You lost me here

On 1/3/2024 at 5:22 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Pretty sure the thread was quickly removed 

I'm pretty sure you are correct that he had a thread like that but I also think it was way back when. 1st gen slabs, pretty much common knowledge those are easy to crack.

On 1/3/2024 at 4:49 PM, mosconi said:

Whatever the devious methods this scammer has implemented over the years, his name needs to be exposed to the comic collecting world very soon!  Can you imagine if we end up with Danny Dupcak as the criminal mastermind behind this, attempting to show CGC how inferior they and their product are?  

Dupecake being involved wouldn't surprise me. I'm pretty sure he sold out of a Kew Gardens address back in the day and I know one of his shills at one point had an Arizona address. Which are 2 of the current addresses in question. And we know he used shills to sell his material as well. 

On 1/3/2024 at 4:35 PM, Book Guy said:

As I don't keep up with more modern prices I'm sure any guesstimate by me as to the $$ value of his sales were would be pathetic. Anybody else want to take a swing? I know he sold over the course of a big rise in prices so copies sold in 2016 will likely be a lot less than similar copies in 2021. Also we don't know what % were truly Sold and how many were simply shill bidding exercises.

Still, take a shot! Anybody got a $$ range?

 

Couple million $$$

On 1/3/2024 at 4:33 PM, bc said:

This is how it may have gone down..

• Perp buys a legit 9.8 ASM300 with cert# 111111111
• Perp buys a donor ASM300 
• Perp replaces legit book with donor and submits it to CGC as an ME/custom job (note perp still has legit 9.8)
• CGC does their magic and the donor book now has cert # 11111111
• Perp sells the donor book to poor sucker
• Perp submits legit 9.8 ASM300 again (still in its original inner well), likely gets 9.8 with cert # 22222222
• Perp buys another donor ASM 300
• Perp replaces legit book with 2nd donor and submits to CGC as an ME/custom job (note: perp still has legit 9.8 still in inner well)
• CGC does their magic and the donor book now has cert # 222222
• Perp sells the second donor book to poor sucker

lather, rinse repeat.

 

If it was me, I'd invest in a few more legit 9.8's to increase cash flow and account for TATs and reduce suspicion.

-bc

That's what I was getting at. He isn't doing this with 1 copy of ASM 300 when there are 70+ copies on that list. But I guess he likely is sitting on several 9.8 copies that he keeps resubbing. Which also means the census is even more wildly inaccurate than I previously thought, at least for ASM 300 and 194. There are dozens of ghost 9.8s just from this one guy not to mention everyone else that CPR's without turning in the label.

On 1/3/2024 at 4:29 PM, agamoto said:

He sure as s*%t is paying walkthrough tier pricing on $3000 books. Even if it were just high dollar value reholders, his wait wouldn't be anywhere near 6 months.

Not right now. Were you around a couple of years ago when TAT's were ridiculous. Reholders were not immune, they were taking forever. And I guarantee you that someone that goes to this length to scam people out of money isn't paying walk-through prices on ASM 300's. That would be for straight submissions. There is no walk-through for reholders.

On 1/3/2024 at 4:20 PM, bc said:

Why not shove a new donor book into the new slab, claim an ME and still have the original 9.8 in hand.

That's how I'd do it to multiply the cash flow and take advantage of TATs.

-bc

I mean I don't know. Maybe he IS sitting on a bunch of 9.8s. But take ASM 300 for example. There are like 70 copies in that list. In your scenario he is doing this one by one. Send 1 in, wait. Get it back, switch. Send it in, wait. Versus, he buys 10 9.8's. Resub's them all with switched books. He now has 10 new 9.8s that are fake. Resubs those fake 9.8's for more fake 9.8s. All he needs is the labels at this point. He now can sell all of the fake 9.8s and still be subbing like 3-4 every few months for more fake 9.8s. But the original 10 9.8s (or 5 or however many he bought) still exist. Why would he sit on those?

On 1/3/2024 at 4:16 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Why would the scammer sell an actual 9.8 and not swap it?

What is he going to do with the actual 9.8? He has to have a 9.8 label right. Which means he needs a legit 9.8. Once he switches them he now has a raw 9.8. He isn't just sitting on those. He is reselling them when he resubs them and they come back 9.8 again.

On 1/3/2024 at 4:14 PM, bc said:

That adds a new wrinkle to the plot...

-bc

There is only 1. It might have just been a legit book. There will be some legit books amongst all that scamminess

On 1/3/2024 at 4:13 PM, agamoto said:

TATs are not 6 months for $3000 books, much closer to 6 days. 

 you think this guy was subbing ASM 300's and 194's under walk-through? That is truly hilarious.

On 1/3/2024 at 4:09 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I’m not suggesting the scammer has a stack of actual 9.8s

I’m suggesting that they are resub bing the same raw 9.8 to continue getting new 9.8 slabs to swap with.

Too many examples of the same book and given TAT's it wouldn't be practical to do this. Not that long ago, TAT's were months long. Imagine having to wait 6 months for your 1 copy of a 9.8 to pull the scam again.

On 1/3/2024 at 4:07 PM, BigLeagueCHEW said:

Why would one keep a stack of 9.8 raws? If you can swap lower grade books into 9.8s for reholder, then sub the 9.8s that are legit as new submissions it’s double profit time!

100% correct. This guy isn't sitting on dozens of raw 9.8s just because. He has sold them as brand new 9.8s so some of those books will be the actual grade stated.

On 1/3/2024 at 4:04 PM, BigLeagueCHEW said:

This is how ME works, and I doubt they will buy anything back that’s not affected.

No, of course they won't buy it back if the grade didn't drop. If you bought a 9.8 and it's still a 9.8... well you bought a 9.8, the end. But let's say you bought a 9.8 and it was a 9.4 switcheroo and CGC says the book is now a 9.4. You are saying that CGC won't buy the "9.8" which is really a 9.4. How do you know that?

On 1/3/2024 at 3:59 PM, BigLeagueCHEW said:

CGC won’t buy back your 9.8s, they will crack, review, then send them back to you if they retain 9.8. If not a 9.8, then they will ask for you to keep the lower grade book and accept the price difference.

as for all those 194s in 9.8, half are still 9.8 in theory as he/she swapped books, then resubbed those 9.8s for double profit.

You are stating this as fact and not conjecture so the obvious question is... how do you know this?

On 1/3/2024 at 3:55 PM, Mdesimone said:

I purchased the asm 129 for 1600 back in 2019, I proved it was an 8.0 swapped into a 9.0 case. The 8.0 in todays market is worth more then what I paid. I’m better off cracking pressing and re submit 

You won't be the only one in this boat. It's going to depend on the grade bump and if things were purchased pre-pandemic.

On 1/3/2024 at 3:47 PM, RonS2112 said:

Lots of assumptions here.  I'd think it's more likely that IF a regrade is appropriate, and IF that regrade results in a difference then CGC will reimburse the difference.  No one is getting a free book.

Free book? Where did you read that? You won't get the book, just what you paid for it. CGC gets the book. Same thing they did with the Ewert books. If they paid you for it, CGC got the book. You don't get to keep the book AND also get paid for it.

On 1/3/2024 at 3:41 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I doubt CGC is going to reimburse the purchase cost.  Most likely they will offer current going rate 

I'm not a lawyer but I work with them a lot. They are a risk averse bunch. I will bet that they will advise CGC to just pay out the purchase cost so as to avoid any chance at a lawsuit. Most likely CGC will offer one of two things. A) they buy the book from you outright at your cost and now CGC owns the book or B) they will regrade it and you can keep it with CGC making up the difference in price between bought at grade and current grade. CGC's preference would obviously be the latter as they don't want to own these books and it leaves more room for negotiation but if they are just buying the book from you outright, I think it will be at cost (assuming you can prove your cost).

On 1/3/2024 at 3:35 PM, bc said:

or will be in the next 24 hours.

-bc

At this point why would you try to offload when you'd likely get busted? CGC is going to buy it back, presuming at the price paid for the book. In fact people that bought during the pandemic bonanza are probably ecstatic that this guy scammed them because they just made their money back and most of the books on that list are going for considerably less now than they were during the pandemic craziness.

On 1/3/2024 at 3:29 PM, bc said:

Maybe it was a "practice book" to test the waters?

-bc

There are 57 9.8 ASM 194 in that list. That is like 11% of the total population of 9.8 copies. 

On 1/3/2024 at 2:50 PM, bc said:

That's quite the list. 

Some big $$$ altogether.

-bc

Someone isn't getting a bonus this year after they pay out on all those books. That is a lot of high dollar material.

On 1/3/2024 at 3:22 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

No kidding.  The scammer really likes 194 as well.  

Ok, this is twice we have posted pretty much the same thing at the same time. There is a glitch in the matrix

On 1/3/2024 at 3:17 PM, EastEnd1 said:

There's an awful lot of Spidey #300s on that list.

And 194's weirdly enough. I think it's the second highest number of books after the 300. Why 194's? Am I missing something about that book in particular?