agamoto

On 12/27/2023 at 6:53 AM, Ares said:

I watch him Weekly. 

Interesting shows and unboxing he puts on

a few minutes in, he doesn't have a very good grasp of what's going on, and it's based on some other youtube clips he's watched. He's a goodfellow, but with a situation as serious as this one, he and everyone on his level should be reading every single post in this thread.

On 12/26/2023 at 10:57 PM, Yorick said:

That last ASM238 9.4 upgraded to 9.8 could simply be a crack out and send to CCS for pressing (maybe use that label later down the line).  It is the same book by my eye, but CGC allows spine ticks on 9.8s.

If the first copy in 9.4 did not indicate that it had tattooz, then I'd add it to the fraud list.  BUT, the case shows it was a tattooz book. 

Just so you know some facts to consider, Yorick, he bought the book a 9.4 off ebay on April 2, 2023. He had that book delivered to him, then repacked and sent with his 4 other books in the same submission on the desk of a grader, not just received by CGC mind you, but at a grader's desk, 7 business days later on April 12th, 2023.

Like the subject of the thread says... Fishy. 

"and check the certification number on CGC's web site, they would find the book there with the 9.8 grade."

Bingo! 

In the interactions with the dude that we've heard about, that's exactly the card he's played... "But but... it's the grade CGC gave it." 

On 12/26/2023 at 9:21 PM, darkstar said:

Revise what speculation? I provided a reason for the discrepancy in grade dates for books that were part of the same order. Again your language seems to indicate that I am denying the accusation that the book in the 9.8 isn't actually a 9.8, when that has never been my position and I'm getting tired of correcting you regarding that. 

You're correcting me for something I never said or even implied. I am simply pointing out that your explanation as to why the dates are as they are doesn't make a lot of sense when stacked against the weight of all the over evidence falling out from this CGC nuclear explosion. Disengaging and deescalating right now as NONE of us should be arguing with one another. None of us are the bad guy. 

On 12/26/2023 at 7:54 PM, darkstar said:

I think the original 6 book order was re-submitted as mechanical errors. The 238 and 252 were sent to CCS, because they didn't pass inspection and were sent for re-grading, which is why their cert pages have grade dates months later, 7/10, instead of the same date as the rest of the order, 4/12.

If you read the posts in the link below starting with the post by Ramithard on Feb 23 you will see this boardie sent a book in for a mechanical error that ended up going to CCS, even though the boardie didn't request or pay for that service. CGC chose to do that on their own, which ended up delaying the simple mechanical error for months. 

Going back to the 238 and 252 the images on their cert pages likely aren't of the books that were graded 9.8 by CGC. Those books, or more likely the labels, were swapped into lesser grade slabs and then submitted to CGC as reholders or mechanical errors - due to case damage or label error. If at intake the books were deemed to not require re-grading then they were sent off to be slabbed, scanned, and shipped - which means the latest scans on the cert page are of a different book than what was originally graded. There is no way CGC is dedicating the manpower to reholders or MEs to the point that every book is being inspected closely to see that it matches the grade assigned on the slab. So unless it is obvious that the case has been compromised or that the book has incurred additional damage since grading then that book isn't going to be subjected to grading again.  

Your post reads like I don't think there is anything wrong going on here, which is obviously not true. This is definitely a big bowl of fraud, but I don't see how anyone at CGC could be knowingly involved. The sheer volume of books CGC receives, not to mention how many orders the scammer has submitted, pretty much eliminates the possibility that one person at CGC could effectively control all of the fraud books at receiving and then steer them through the entire process while at CGC.

"I think the original 6 book order was re-submitted as mechanical errors."

What is it that makes you think that?

The 423525700x series is 6 books. WIth the exception of 4235257004, which is a 9.6 238 Direct Market, all the rest are listed in the census as 9.8 books. 

Only 7001 and 7005 have images in the census and have custom labels. Both with graded dates on 7/10 instead of 4/12 like the others.

Your position is that they were sent to CCS for some unspecified errors and that's why the grade dates are 3+ months later.

The book that would later be proven here to become 4235257005 has been proven to actually be a 9.4 book sold by another seller on ebay, almost certainly to our perp, on 4/2/2023.

Do you think it's likely that our perp received the book in time from his ebay seller, and had it added to his submission and shipped to CGC from either Phoenix, NJ or NY, had it looked at by graders on 4/12/2023 and then sent to CCS automatically?

I think it's more likely he sent a different book in to get graded on 4/12 as 4235257005, and then sent it back to CGC with a swapped label so they could "correct" their records or give him the custom label he wanted. 

In any event, he got a 9.8 grade on a book that I can't even believe got a 9.4 given the severity of that staple creasing. 

Either way, we're both still speculating. 

@skybolt The scenario darkstar is describing is entirely possible, except @comicwiz just demonstrated that's not what happened at al, specifically with the ASM 238 from that submission group that I'm arguing with him about. He just located the original book that got sent in to become the 9.8 in this reholder/custom label scam. 

It's pretty obvious to me the other re-dated book in that submission group, the ASM 252 CPV, is also not even close to a 9.8 either... We just haven't found the donor book yet. 

@darkstar

So one of the two books you're talking about just got spiked by @comicwiz

Did you want to revise your speculation on what happened to that submission group before one of us finds the match for the ASM 252 in that same submission group?

That's the one I keep bringing up. The ASM 252 from that same submission group 4235257001, could also be a hit. 

@comicwiz

Here's the back..

Sure looks a lot like the back of 4235257005

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4235257005/

Let me look at newsstands as that cert doesnt' indicate it's a NS. 

Got it 

@comicwiz

I see it.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/amazing-spider-man-238-newsstand-cgc-4627106991 the one you're looking at.

That ad definitely doesn't look like anything Zaneglor/Briva3 posted.

Not finding any 9.4's or 9.6's on gocollect indicating a sale on that date. 

@comicwiz

Oh wait, it's a 9.4 238? 

This one sold 4/2/2023, but nothing matching your cert on that day. 

What venue? Not seeing that sale on GoCollect or worthpoint. 

Only 4/2/2023 book I see sold is a 9.2 ASM 194 3977826005

On 12/26/2023 at 6:43 PM, BigLeagueCHEW said:

I think CGC has the entire list of affected books submitted by this Bree, Brees, whatever their name is. Every submission has all the certs. Not sure if they will disclose this, or just suck it up and change the way reholder service is done on a more strict standard. 

Oh of course, I know. The question is if they'll be 100% forthcoming about any/all of it when it comes time to explain how this fellow seems to be getting such an amazing success rate with all the books he submits, not to mention whether they'll be 100% frank about how many fraudulent books he's been able to wash through the reholder/custom label system. 

Well, I kinda have to question your own speculation then, Darkstar... Was the 238 and the 252 from that submission group sent to CCS for pressing or not? Was a mechanical error detected in those two books and that's why they went back in for regrade/relabel? Is the image we're seeing on the census an image of the book as seen by the graders or not, regardless of when they touched it? I'm all for slowing things down, thinking things through and being rational about all this, but the evidence that we are exposed to is rather overwhelming at this point and it's not like we're making wild assumptions based on a few sales and submissions. We're basing our speculation on HUNDREDS of them with oft repeated incidences as noted and plenty of obvious book-swapping fraud laid bare. 

On 12/26/2023 at 6:03 PM, pdags said:

He could be sending in 40 books and using pre-screening...  So we would only see the 9.8's.

We can only speculate on that... What we don't have to speculate on is the numbers we ARE able to see, and how incredibly fortunate our friend is, over and over and over and over again. 

On 12/26/2023 at 5:55 PM, darkstar said:

I'm pretty sure those 5 books were submitted as Mechanical Errors and the 7001 and 7005 went to CCS after being reviewed by CGC, which is what caused the delay and grade date discrepancy with the other books in the order. And I think the scans on the certification page are the most recent scans of that book the last time CGC had it, not necessarily scans of the book that earned the 9.8 grade designation originally.  

Since you brought it up, you're assuming they are resubs to fix mechanical errors, that's not an irrational assumption. Neither is mine. But, have a close look at the other graded on the same "altered" date from the rest of the books from that submission group. The ASM 194. The "9.8" Newsstand. 

Zoom in a little closer...

You'd think if the books were resubmitted for a mechanical error, someone in QC might have spotted the glaring problem with that ASM194 that far removes it from the 9.8 grade it received.

On 12/26/2023 at 5:43 PM, DC# said:

I cannot state with certainty that all books keep the same date - but I have re-holdered several significant books this year (from 2nd Gen slabs) and all maintained their original grade date.   Here is the example of a FF 5 - graded in 2013 and reslabbed in 2023 with photos in the CGC system.

 

Then it's either inconsistency with CGC's procedures, or they only update the graded date when it's a custom label. Who knows at this point, seems to be stuff like changing dates, images in the census and graders notes only get added/changed when it strikes someone's fancy. 

On 12/26/2023 at 5:37 PM, pdags said:

Wow, nice work.  I had a similar thought a few minutes before seeing your post (collecting all his known submissions and listing out all the books in each group).  

Help yourself with any submissions I missed, I think Brute_NM has a list of submissions on his cliffnotes, there may be some there I haven't looked at. 

On 12/26/2023 at 5:36 PM, comicwiz said:

Thanks for the thorough explanation. After reading through this, it is still unclear to me what, or if any, links exist between the eBay user Zaneglor and briva3. It's an interesting footnote to some of the unusual activity that we have noted with our findings, but I'm trying to focus specifically on that sellers listings. I know for certain neither of these books have crossed into the data dive I've done thus far. 

You have worthpoint don't you? The links between the two sellers are quite pronounced when you look at their posting history. The phrases used, the background of the images, they're the same seller. The connection was made via instagram already too if I'm not mistaken. 

Using worthpoint, I've traced this seller back to ads as old as 2006. 

Then perhaps the scam here with our lil' buddy isn't reholders, it's reholder for a custom label, unless you're saying you've submitted yours for the same. Either or, just demonstrates further inconsistencies CGC sure as hell better start addressing, chicken louie. 

On 12/26/2023 at 2:27 PM, Buzzetta said:

Keep in mind that he may not have tried to sell the books on Comiclink at all or anywhere else at all.  Those sales and attempted sales may be from people looking to unload something they bought.  We saw that with the Promise Collection how some books purchased through Heritage wound up on Comiclink months later. 

Sure, but in the case of the repeated eBay sales, it's the same pictures and the same ad copy. Folks trying to unload books they bought off eBay don't usually just copy the original pics and ad copy. 

On 12/26/2023 at 2:58 PM, skybolt said:

My apologies for getting the dates wrong, but my comment stands. What I'm saying is the book graded on 2/28 is not the same book in the universal holder now. That one was a legitimate universal 6.5.  if the scammer switched this book with green label one and sent it in for reholdering a month later, the grading date would remain as 2/28, but with the green label book in there now. 

No, not necessarily. I've come across all sorts of books where the reholder triggered a new graded date.