JTLarsen

I suppose the whole argument is just based on semantics. The general public accepts that 181 is the first appearance because they are told (by the CGC and other grading companies) that it is.

 

 

It was thought of as his first appearance way before CGC ever came into existence.

Not so. Would love to see any kind of guide listing that put 181 as his first with no mention of his actual first (cameo, whatever) in 180. Link? Scan?

That's fine & good, but the fact that 181 costs more doesn't mean that it's Wolverine's first appearance.

 

Nor does it make IM 305 the Hulkbuster Armor's 1st appearance.

 

 

technically 181 is the 2nd app because 180 is a cameo or the first but I go with what is worth more

 

While that is your perogative, let me ask you this, and this is a "yes" or "no" only question -

 

Did Wolverine appear in IH #180, and did #180 come out before #181?

 

 

 

 

-slym

Technically, two plus two equals four.

 

This guy doesn't mess around.

 

Chuck's site is sooooo 70s looking

 

I know, right? Those 70's websites. Man, I remember the first one I ever visited: the Sesame Street website. It was 4 bit, so Big Bird looked like Pac-Man! And Bert and Ernie were playing Pong the whole time!

 

 

 

I just got word that Chuck's site has been designed soon after the Enigma code was cracked

 

 

Laugh all you want. They upgraded fairly recently to add a working search (the old one was terrible). It's much better to navigate now.

 

Actually heres something y'all get a kick out of.. I used to use Milehigh all the time as reference for pricing lolololol

OK, not exactly.. But heres how it worked for me..

Say I'd get a lot of 300 Archie Bronze comics which I was absolutely clueless about.. I'd go to Milehigh and look them up. The ones that stick up higher in price than others would be the ones I would look up on eBay and price accordingly..

Because Chuck's website is soooo old, its actually much easier to navigate through, since there's no flash or spam or other things that slow down my PC..Try and do the same with comic book realm and It'll take all day..

Milehigh's website used to show ALL books and their pricing, regardless if they have it or not.. But as of 2 years ago that has changed and now they only show the books they carry in stock

Try Advanced Search. It shows out-of-stock books, too.

it is clear there is nothing prominent about Gambit's appearance in X-Men Annual #14 other than he appears throughout the book.

Hilarious.

And the events of Amazing Spiderman #252 take place literally seconds after the events of Secret Wars #12.

 

That doesn't mean Secret Wars #8 is the first appearance of the symbiote.

 

There is no letter from Marvel apologizing for an error, because there was no error to apologize for.

 

All that matters is: what hit the stands first?

 

Sorry. You missed my point.

 

The Amazing Spider-Man#252 (May 1, 1984)

Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars#8 (December 1, 1984)

------------------------

7 month gap between them = No confusion which came first

 

The Incredible Hulk#181 (November 1974)

Wolverine #10 (August 1989)

------------------------

15 years, 3 month gap between them = No confusion which came first

 

X-Men Annual#14 (August 1, 1990)

The Uncanny X-Men#266 (August 1, 1990)

------------------------

0 month gap between them = Potential for confusion

 

So comparing the other books to the X-Men Ann #14/UXM #266 situation is not the same. They were published in the same month. That is why it is easily assumed Marvel messed up the release of this book because (1) who cared about Gambit anyway, and (2) Marvel just wanted to crank books out without a care of which order the books had to be released.

 

You're glossing over the gap there, there was three weeks between them, pretty damn close to a month.

 

I'm not glossing over anything. To compare two books with seven (7) months between them and then compare two books with fifteen (15) years between them is not like two books released around the same time that one references as a FLASHBACK (in RMA's word) to the story contained in X-Men Annual #14.

 

That's pretty damb close to each other's release, making it easy for a mishandled schedule leading to one being out-of-synch with another.

Y'know, the numbers one and two are RIGHT NEXT TO each other. No gap at all. So it's possible two was SUPPOSED to come first. So I could see why people would say two is really first. Before one.

That hughes convergence cover. Anyone picking that up?

Once the prices come down a bit more on that (and his Spider-Gwen variant).

Yup. 300 copies pressed. Private signing. Why should it heat up

 

She's not even in a movie.

 

How is this happening ? People collecting a comic (or record) because they like it ? No incentive ? Hogwash !

 

cuz clearly them comic book people dont care about music related items

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/05/07/league-of-extraordinary-gentlemen-vinyl-be-finally-published-by-gosh-comics/

In fairness, the "market" has changed its mind in the past on what is considered "key" first appearances.

 

-J.

 

Which books?

 

I am not trying to be a jerk here, but I cannot recall any bigger character 1st apps that has happened with.

Our Army at War 81 used to be Sgt. Rock's first appearance. Then folks wise up and it became Our Army at War 83.

Brave and Bold 54 used to be considered Teen Titans' first appearance. Still is. But that'll change, too.

Here's an interesting out-liner, Spectacular Spider-Man #27 9.8 @ $108 & 37 watchers. It's the 1st app. of Frank Miller's artwork on Daredevil and predates his run on the Daredevil title. Perhaps due to the Daredevil franchise on Netflix, collectors are picking up this key issue in the hopes..?

 

 

I don't consider that an outlier at all, just a nice price for a nice book.

 

I haven't seen that much interest for it until now (38 watchers now. wow). Hence my out-liner comment but I think you're right. (thumbs u

Outlier.

I got my Hughes variant the other day in the mail and it arrived perfectly but I am still not for sure if I like it. Its a nice pic of Gwen for sure, but not really related to the character. What do you guys think about it that have it? I think I like the Anka variant more.

 

I believe I read that the Adam Hughes artwork actually already existed. It was a commission piece or something, I don't recall. It just got used again for the cover--so it's possible it was done even before there WAS a character called "Spider-Gwen." Anyone know for sure?

 

Correct jtlarsen. This was a reused sketch of Gwen Stacy, however Adam Hughes did add the new Spider-Gwen image peaking from the side.

 

Right. Of course. Der. Thank you! Now...anyone know where the Gwen sketch drawing first appeared?

 

NOWHERE IN PRINT.

 

It was a commissioned piece from a private collection.

 

...that first appeared in print in the 2013 Adam Hughes sketchbook called "Little Help?"

 

NEVER in it's current form ( And you DO know that artist sketchbooks containing licensed characters are unauthorized material

Although I clarified above that the peeking Spider-Gwen was new, technically, the question was "where the GWEN [emphasis added] sketch drawing first appeared"? The drawing first appeared in Hughes's 2013 sketchbook. Which might not have Marvel's official imprimatur, but the Big Two have clearly if not explicitly allowed artists--at least the biggies--to include signature characters in their sketchbooks. I'm not sure why or whether it matters that it's authorized or not, but Marvel clearly knows about it and clearly has the wherewithal to do something about it and chooses not to. Why it's relevant either way still eludes me, but there it is.

I got my Hughes variant the other day in the mail and it arrived perfectly but I am still not for sure if I like it. Its a nice pic of Gwen for sure, but not really related to the character. What do you guys think about it that have it? I think I like the Anka variant more.

 

I believe I read that the Adam Hughes artwork actually already existed. It was a commission piece or something, I don't recall. It just got used again for the cover--so it's possible it was done even before there WAS a character called "Spider-Gwen." Anyone know for sure?

 

Correct jtlarsen. This was a reused sketch of Gwen Stacy, however Adam Hughes did add the new Spider-Gwen image peaking from the side.

 

Right. Of course. Der. Thank you! Now...anyone know where the Gwen sketch drawing first appeared?

 

NOWHERE IN PRINT.

 

It was a commissioned piece from a private collection.

 

...that first appeared in print in the 2013 Adam Hughes sketchbook called "Little Help?"

The Gwen part did, I should specify. As noted above, the Spider-Gwen peeking around the corner was added on. But I just went through my Hughes sketchbooks and the Gwen part was printed in the 2013 sketchbook, titled, I believe, "Little Help?"

I got my Hughes variant the other day in the mail and it arrived perfectly but I am still not for sure if I like it. Its a nice pic of Gwen for sure, but not really related to the character. What do you guys think about it that have it? I think I like the Anka variant more.

 

I believe I read that the Adam Hughes artwork actually already existed. It was a commission piece or something, I don't recall. It just got used again for the cover--so it's possible it was done even before there WAS a character called "Spider-Gwen." Anyone know for sure?

 

Correct jtlarsen. This was a reused sketch of Gwen Stacy, however Adam Hughes did add the new Spider-Gwen image peaking from the side.

 

Right. Of course. Der. Thank you! Now...anyone know where the Gwen sketch drawing first appeared?

 

NOWHERE IN PRINT.

 

It was a commissioned piece from a private collection.

...that first appeared in print in the 2013 Adam Hughes sketchbook called "Little Help?"

I got my Hughes variant the other day in the mail and it arrived perfectly but I am still not for sure if I like it. Its a nice pic of Gwen for sure, but not really related to the character. What do you guys think about it that have it? I think I like the Anka variant more.

 

I believe I read that the Adam Hughes artwork actually already existed. It was a commission piece or something, I don't recall. It just got used again for the cover--so it's possible it was done even before there WAS a character called "Spider-Gwen." Anyone know for sure?

 

Correct jtlarsen. This was a reused sketch of Gwen Stacy, however Adam Hughes did add the new Spider-Gwen image peaking from the side.

Right. Of course. Der. Thank you! Now...anyone know where the Gwen sketch drawing first appeared?

I got my Hughes variant the other day in the mail and it arrived perfectly but I am still not for sure if I like it. Its a nice pic of Gwen for sure, but not really related to the character. What do you guys think about it that have it? I think I like the Anka variant more.

I believe I read that the Adam Hughes artwork actually already existed. It was a commission piece or something, I don't recall. It just got used again for the cover--so it's possible it was done even before there WAS a character called "Spider-Gwen." Anyone know for sure?

SGAH?

 

 

Spider-Gwen Adam Hughes variant is my guess... $300 today, ? in three months.

Can get it for less than $300 already.

Personally I love the hughes cover, is my favorite of all the variants.

 

Rarity will help this one stay in demand down the road.

 

It isn't rare. This book didn't sneak up on anyone. And a significant number of people who pre-ordered the Hughes incentive did so with no intention of ever keeping it.

 

If you are looking for an undervalued Hughes variant go find a copy of Teen Titans 75 with Starfire on the cover.

 

Or some of his Zatanna variants. Or Tomb Raider. I could go on...!

Sirens #1 Hughes variant, NYCC, print run of 500, I believe...

Personally I love the hughes cover, is my favorite of all the variants.

 

Rarity will help this one stay in demand down the road.

 

It isn't rare. This book didn't sneak up on anyone. And a significant number of people who pre-ordered the Hughes incentive did so with no intention of ever keeping it.

 

If you are looking for an undervalued Hughes variant go find a copy of Teen Titans 75 with Starfire on the cover.

Or some of his Zatanna variants. Or Tomb Raider. I could go on...!

I have one. Bought it at the con. Not graded. No pic. Sorry!

DC Super-Stars #17 9.4 is breaking out @ $51 but has 25 watchers!

 

seems cheap to me!

Agreed. Even at $71 (where it is now). We'll see where it ends tomorrow...

X-men annual 14 is first cameo appearance and 266 is first appearance.

Different story if Gambit would be like Hi, I am Gambit in annual 14 but no just standing in the crowd and mumbling something like ay biiiatch and as X-men collector I was always going to buy both of course cos I also wanted all the annuals but I just dont feel that annual 14 is 1 appearance.

I dont have hulk 180 or 181 but i would be satisfied just owning 180 cause in the last page Wolverine introduces himself.

Batman 357 is better comic to debate which I havent read but I understand that Killer Croc dont show his face, dont say who he is and still it seems 357 is important and not 358.

Ps.I just checked when ASM252 came out and it is definitely 1 app of blacksuit. Secret wars 8 is like the origin story..

Gambit don't has to introduce self to make first appearance. Gambit has just to appear. First. Even if you doesn't feel it.

Flash #197 @ $15 & 10 watchers. A Professor Zoom Origin tie-in?

Listing claims it's his first appearance.

I don't think they're calling it 1st pre defenders (which isn't a thing). I think they're saying its "pre '1st defenders'". but I may have read something wrong. And I think a lot if not most agree that its kind of like a pre-defenders type thingy. Or that's how I viewed it.

 

You meet a girl at work, do a project together. After the project, you start dating. You weren't dating during the project, but if you end up getting married (or having a long term relationship), it makes sense to note that 1st project as having some meaning.

 

Kind of like Brave and the Bold 54 but with the Defenders.

 

Oh no he didn't!

 

 

As much as the current focus on cover appearances (good or bad) is, the fact B&B54 doesn't say "Teen Titans" on it and B&B 60 sure does, could accelerate the rethink on 54's mistaken status as their first appearance. We shall see.

If you played with a group of kids when you were a kid...

 

Played all kinds of games and the kids there changed a bit but more or less the same came often

 

Then on the 19th September you sit down and say "guys, we play so well together - I think we should form the Incredible Demons!" The other cheer and from that day forth those exact four play together as the incredible demons...

 

When did the Incredible Demons come to be? Was it 19th September... or do you want to count that they knew each other beforehand?

It definitely counts...just not as the first appearance of the Incredible Demons. Prototype, sure. Flip your example on its head. The kids play together all their lives...and never say "We should form the Incredible Demons!" In that scenario, did The Incredible Demons ever appear? If B&B60 and all subsequent Teen Titans appearances were never published, no one would look back at B&B 54 as the first and only appearance of a brand-new super-team that sadly never appeared again.

Also, the analogy doesn't work in the sense that forming a team requires a structural and definitional change from just working together. When you form a team, you typically have all or some of the following: Name, clubhouse, leader, rules, formal membership, etc. None of those things were present in B&B 54. If a group of kids play together all their lives and them say, "We should form the Incredible Demons and our headquarters will be in Jake's basement and we'll have a secret code and Timmy will be the first leader," that's much more analogous, I think, to team formation.

Anyone who wants to buy and own B&B 54 should do so. I do! They should just know that they're buying and owning a comic in which no one forms a superteam or says the words "Teen Titans." For that, you want yourself a 60.

Incredible Demons Assemble!

I'm 96.876953% sure this isn't the first appearance of anything.

 

 

I cannot make a better argument than the one which lies between the covers, Good Sir.

Two different stories, no? The first one is from B&B 60, the first appearance of the Teen Titans, right? The second one is from B&B 54, in which no group forms and the words "Teen Titans" do not appear.

Love and Rockets 1

Captain Britain 8 (UK)

2000 A.D (first Judge Dredd)

[snip]

Dr Who Weekly (UK)

UK is a great, still-undervalued source of some real rarities with real potential for Marvel collectors. I'd add Warrior #1 to this list (first Alan Moore Marvelman, not to mention first V for Vendetta).

I'd also add Frantic Winter Special 1 and Not the World Cup Special (early Alan Moore work for Marvel UK) along with all of his Captain Britain stuff through Daredevils, Mighty World of Marvel and Marvel Super-Heroes.

Oh, and he did many issues of Dr. Who Weekly and Star Wars Weekly for Marvel UK. You can also find early Grant Morrison work in multiple Marvel UK titles.