Steven Valdez

On 12/28/2023 at 5:09 AM, drotto said:

I have a few coins in slabs from the sister division, and my kids have a few cards. Should look at them later.

Indeed! It's the grown-up collectables that are going to draw the attention.

On 12/28/2023 at 5:07 AM, drotto said:

Not sure about that, but I bet it crosses over to the slabs for cards and maybe coins. So this does go beyond comics.

 

And that's where the headlines are going to come in.

On 12/28/2023 at 5:01 AM, MatterEaterLad said:

CGC will be fine. They'll take a small hit to their reputation and maybe their bottom line. Unfortunately, most of those submitting won't even know about this scandal. There are so many CGC fan communities that will be insulated from this. I got the ban hammer from the CGC fan page on Facebook for just mentioning this scandal. And that's a group with 37,000 members, that the mods there are keeping in the dark.

Immaculate Comics' recent video should be enough to put the fear of god into anyone.

On 12/28/2023 at 4:51 AM, agamoto said:

Too many powerful players with too much money tied to the value of their encased books. I don't think they're done, but it sure as heck better at least level the playing field on resale value. Honestly, how is this any worse than CBCS losing a couple hundred submissions and grading from home or PGX and all their catalog of goof-ups?

All of those screw-ups are appalling, but this casts doubt on every CGC'd book.

Joke as we may (and I do) but I don't see CGC recovering from this. They're done.

If this tampering can't be done with CBCS cases, those guys are in for a major windfall.

On 12/28/2023 at 4:24 AM, William-James88 said:

This has literally been an issue with slabbed books since the beginning. If the uncertainty of your pin ups not being there didn't stop you from buying a slabbed book before, I don't see why it would stop you now.

It's not something I used to worry about. I thought CGC was at least basically competent and secure.

So.... who's planning on submitting their books for grading or buying any slabbed books in 2024?

On 12/28/2023 at 4:03 AM, Mdesimone said:

 if you paid 8000 dollars for a book that could be compromised ...

Try selling that book now.

On 12/28/2023 at 3:28 AM, namisgr said:

I think CGC is on holiday

Oh, they're going to be on holiday for a long, long time.

On 12/28/2023 at 3:25 AM, pdags said:

Their whole business model was at stake and there was zero urgency on this. 

The headline from hell:

CGC cases are easily tampered with, compromising comics worth as much as tens of thousands of dollars each.

On 12/28/2023 at 3:05 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I doubt the scammer is using glue to seal the wells back together.   CGC has to be able to open these things to reholder them.

I always just assumed they were breaking them open and discarding them. I don't think that any more as of half an hour ago.

On 12/28/2023 at 2:54 AM, mephistopheles said:

Got any 9.8 Hulk 181's for sale?

Yes. They may or may not contain the MVS. Just don't apply heat to the case.

On 12/28/2023 at 2:49 AM, Cat said:

Decades, even. It's absolutely an old technique in action figure circles. Good call, Buzz. 

So my early Silver Age Marvels might be riddled with clipped coupons and I'd be none the wiser...

On 12/28/2023 at 2:56 AM, sd2416 said:

I downloaded it from youtube just in case. 

Good move, I will do that right now as well.

On 12/28/2023 at 2:40 AM, mephistopheles said:

WTF is Xylene? Who would think to use that?

Dr Rick is a chemist, as I understand it.

On 12/28/2023 at 2:38 AM, Buzzetta said:

 

This is speculation as I have never tried it. 

I have kind of held that suspicion for awhile, actually a couple of years before this took place due to how certain GI Joe figures are taken apart.  With some GI Joe and Star Wars figures both modern and vintage they are held together in such a way that the only way to take them apart and reassemble them was through heat.  Customizers have been known to loosen the plastics through the old "boil and pop" method.   I was looking at this customization page once when I got a comic order and realized that you could probably figure out a way to boil and pop the posts without damaging the CGC shell. 

You figure to boil and pop the posts is the equivalent to popping out the limbs on a figure.  Then you slowly and carefully separate the torso (the welded part of the figure) with an exacto.  This would be the equivalent to the body of the slab.  Some pop easily and some do not.    I would imagine that if you have any skill in that area that a slab would be easier than a smaller action figure.  The smaller the item the more difficult it might be to separate.  So if an action figure can be customized I do not see why those guys would not be able to dismantle a CGC shell in a manner that it can easily be put back together again. 

@comicwiz - You would know far more than I do when it comes to this.

He literally shows us how to do it on his video (linked further up the page).

I wonder if Rick's video is going to get a 'cease and desist' from you know whom.

Well, now we all know exactly how to pull of this reholdering scam.

So we're officially all suspects.

On 12/28/2023 at 2:16 AM, agamoto said:

Cheap, but you have to factor in the cost of the acrylic cases and the aluminum molds used to seal 'em back up. I don't think it's even required now that I've seen what Dr. Rick just pulled off with a heat gun and a little bit of xylene.

Absolutely. How does sonic welding work anyway? Not sure what it does. I guess the answer is 'not much' in the case of CGC.

On 12/28/2023 at 2:10 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I’ve been curious whether or not heat would release the corner posts.

Just watched the Immaculate Comics video... 'The pin just pops right out, it didn't give me any resistance at all.'

Oh dear.

On 12/28/2023 at 2:04 AM, agamoto said:

Great video... RIck from immaculate has demonstrated that some heat applied to the ball joints on the bottom of the case allow for the "tamper proof" pillars can be popped off w/o a problem. 

CGC, you need a new case design, right now. 

Well, that's a crucial bit of news.

On 12/28/2023 at 1:25 AM, agamoto said:

He's getting them to apply a 9.8 custom label to a 9.4 book, and he has to be taking advantage of them not regrading the book or opening the inner well or giving any of it much scrutiny at all. He's got to be submitting the 9.4 with a label that indicates it's a 9.8 and counting on them not actually bothering to check.

CGC has to be receiving a book with a 9.8 label and certification that matches a book they sent out. It seems the majority of these swaps since mid 2022 have involved custom labels. So my assumption is he's found a way to replace the standard label in a case using a simple sonic cutter/welder to maintain the integrity of the case as best as possible to avoid scrutiny. He's not submitting these books to CGC raw, so it's possible that he's resealing and then smashing the area where he broke into the case and complaining of mechanical error upon receipt once he's received his legit 9.8 book and swapped the label with the 9.4. There's no way to be sure, at least with his submissions prior to 8/1/2023, if the other books in his submissions are also custom labels, and I would actually suspect they are not.

He'd then have to ship the books back and the doctored case would then be forwarded to a department whose sole purpose is to crack out, replace label and re-encapsulate only with no regrading, just a simple label check. I don't believe for a minute that the book is being removed from its inner well or being pressed, regraded, etc. otherwise it absolutely would require a conspiracy from within to pull off given all the examples of obvious lower grade books getting passed off as 9.0+ books.

Another alternative is that he is doing it all at home with a sonic welder capable of full case seals which cost around $5K to 10K, including the cost of the aluminum molds required to perform the seal. He'd also need an exact copy of the CGC case to pull it off as well, or something good enough to pass muster at CGC. I've seen links to alibaba cases, and if they truly are a match for CGC's case, then honestly ALL bets are off and pretty much anyone with $5-10K could be doing the same thing. He could be requesting a label change, or resealing the donor book with the higher grade label at home and then smashing/cracking any edges to hide any imperfections... My question would be how the heck could he be doing that level of trickery over and over again w/o anyone appearing to catch on. 

 

So, there's this:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Children-39S-Books-Comic-Slab-Ultrasonic_1600491875113.html

1 - 9 pieces

USD 1,900.00

Does anyone still have the footage of that guy violently breaking open a CGC case at a convention? From memory, he was a professional showing the right way to do it.