Dark Knight

On 5/16/2024 at 5:32 PM, Professor K said:

I know. They are addicting! I feel like I have a monkey on my back trying not to buy any. A monkey with a skull head.

Speaking of monkeys, I'm going to show off my latest which I got here on the board from jbpez. If you don't yet know jbpez, well you need to know him. Real good fella.  Personally I don't think this is a monkey , just a man who has clearly been through a lot lately. 

I have a 3.0 copy as well 

On 5/15/2024 at 1:34 PM, buttock said:

Card people have been manipulating since time immemorial.  I've read of measuring card thickness to evaluate for pressing.  

I just know that trimming of cards have been going on for decades now. Some of those cards were not even caught on by PSA and would be graded out just like a regular untrimmed card

On 5/15/2024 at 10:53 AM, Aman619 said:

arent card collectors just as savvy about pressing and stain removal as the comics biz is?  Is this JUST happening with cards right now?  after all these years?  How did they hold out so long, and why now?

 

I believe the whole cleaning, removing of stains on cards is quite recent. At least not as long as how comics have gone through the whole process. Maybe these card guys found out about restoration and such with comics and now just recently applying them to cards to see how it all works out.

On 5/13/2024 at 6:30 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

My understanding is that an intense beam of blue light can cause a stain to fade (the same way leaving your clothing out in the sun will cause a stain to fade). Some of these guys use the light only on white areas of the book while others are more liberal with it. In a video that I saw months ago, a couple of guys on YouTube were talking about using blue light alone (i.e., no bath) to treat books, but I have not been able to locate that video again. (I cleared my history in YouTube not too long ago, otherwise I could search through my watched videos and find it.)

If blue light is being used to lighten stains and foxing, that could potentially be done while a book is still in the slab. I don't know of any other way that a book could be lightened yet still retain the same slab number.

(I do think it's possible that the changes we're seeing are the result of differences in the scans, but there is no way to verify that.)

That would be something else!!! A blue light used to lighten books up while inside a slab. I've never heard of that before . I guess in this day and age, anything is possible. Would definitely like to see videos of that if they're still up. 

It's just a little upsetting to me that this new process of lightening up books so the paper is whiter and still garner the unrestored blue label is a bit misleading, at least to me. Something was done to improve the appearance of the book. Isn't that kinda like restoration? I prefer an original book with its light tanning showing it's age than something that was improved on with chemicals, blue light, etc. Dry cleaning is perfectly fine for me and I've had some of my books done with that process. 

There's some sort of a scandal floating around in the card world where a guy would work on improving the appearance of old or new cards by sinking the card in some sort of water based solution to remove dirt, oil, etc. to improve in its appearance and making the card look like it was freshly opened from a pack.  It's a form of alteration apparently. Well, for some reason, PSA has banned his account and the people who submitted their cards for this kind of work have all been deactivated by PSA.

Just look up Kurt's kard care and PSA. People are talking about it on YouTube or in sports card chat rooms.

This is somewhat similar to what we're discussing about books getting similar treatment. In my opinion, these books should belong in a purple holder.

On 5/11/2024 at 6:35 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

Are you sure they're not using blue light? Some flippers are using blue light in conjunction with peroxide and possibly getting some books through undetected, but other guys are supposedly using blue light alone, and I don't think CGC could catch that.

Not sure what the whole process of "blue light" entails but from what I read, it was some sort of an aqueous bath. They don't mention what's in this bath so they don't reveal their secrets.

A little off topic, but I was casually browsing around Heritage's make an offer page and came across this steal of a sale back in 2022

On 5/11/2024 at 4:30 PM, lou_fine said:

On 5/11/2024 at 9:31 AM, Dark Knight said:

I've seen multiple books that have some sort of aqueous cleaning done and still garner a blue label where tanning on the covers were lifted and the cover is now whiter.

Is this the type of work that Mark Wilson was notorious for back in the day?  

If so and books with this kind of cleaning are now residing in blue labelled slabs, then I guess Mark was right all along when he said back then that he did not considered this type of work to be restoration.  

I am unsure about Mark Wilson's restoration/conservation/cleaning practices, but I've seen before and after pictures that at least one or perhaps a few in the comic book resto. business are somehow cleaning the covers off of tanning, dirt, etc. with some sort of aqueous concoction (because dry cleaning will not clean it all off) and making the covers look brighter and whiter.

Not sure about the long terms effects would be for these books that have undergone that process, but when I asked Tracy Heft about it, he said doesn't know either.

On 5/11/2024 at 6:53 AM, tth2 said:

Without seeing it in hand, it's impossible to know how much of that is due to scanner/photo settings and how much is due to real change.

Definitely best way to compare books. Unfortunately, we won't be able to see the book in hand when it was in the older label. Let's see soon how the Heritage scans look when they're up. 

I'm still in the assumption that the book was previously cleaned. I've seen multiple books that have some sort of aqueous cleaning done and still garner a blue label where tanning on the covers were lifted and the cover is now whiter. 

On 5/11/2024 at 6:28 AM, batman_fan said:

Thanks !

Same copy that sold back in 2002, must've retained the same certification number since it was re-holdered to the new label and casing.  Upon closer magnification comparing the newly certified copy to the 2002 one, it appears that the book has gone through cleaning to remove some of the foxing on the right and top edges.  Back cover also looks whiter.  Unfortunately after the cleaning, the colors now do not pop compared to how it was before and has slightly faded the deep oranges and blues it once had.

The 4.5 Tec 27 copy sold back in 2022. Would be interesting to see what it goes for now.

I stay away from purchasing mystery boxes because of what others have already said about them.  Just stuff the dealers are trying to get rid of because no one wants to buy them. All garbage books.

Yes, it's quite similar to sports card pre-pack breaks. But different from the usual box or case breaks because those cases and boxes were factory sealed so the contents are unknown. You can hit a big $100k card from a break just like that, but be careful with whom you shop with. Some of these card breakers are shady and would sometimes not ship the cards you won from the break OR they can say that the card was lost in the mail but they in fact kept it due to its high value.  I've done about a few years of sports card breaks back then and have hit some monsters that are worth $$$. I've stopped now a few years ago, but it sure was fun 😆

On 5/5/2024 at 3:47 PM, batman_fan said:

Look at it this way, one year closer to that sweet sweet senior discount at the movies.

Woohoo can't wait!!! 

Just turned 41 last month 

On 4/24/2024 at 1:45 PM, LDarkseid1 said:

That's what I thought. I don't understand how they get away with these scams. Obviously noone's buying, but he's pitching a fake version. So should be illegal or just against Ebay guidelines.

Anyone who is spending that kind of money on a book will do their research first and figure out the authentic copies from the fake or reprinted ones.

I highly doubt the book will sell

And here's the answer 

100% fake. Very easy to spot

Book is getting graded.  I guess we shall find out soon.  

On 4/7/2024 at 4:12 PM, adamstrange said:

On 4/7/2024 at 3:53 PM, Dark Knight said:

Funny how the PQ got better overtime too .  This absolutely proves once again (to all the naysayers) that PQ can change for better or worse if that same book is re-graded or in this instance, re-holdered.  It's all based on opinion I guess.

They were generally tougher on PQ for old label grades.

That's true as well for the 1st gen labels, but I have resubmitted books in newer labels just a few months apart to get pressed, and the PQ changed from white to offwhite-white and another from cream-offwhite to offwhite.

Absolutely a gorgeous 8.5 copy.  Between the two 8.5 copies, this I think is the better looking one.  Love the colors and white colored covers with no tanning.  So if this book was just re-holdered, why did the PQ change from offwhite-white to white?  I thought if a book is re-holdered, nothing is changed from the old label.  

Funny how the PQ got better overtime too .  This absolutely proves once again (to all the naysayers) that PQ can change for better or worse if that same book is re-graded or in this instance, re-holdered.  It's all based on opinion I guess.

On 4/7/2024 at 2:12 PM, LDarkseid1 said:

I don’t know if anyone’s heard about this, at least I think I saw it correctly on CGC’s instagram page. They just graded a brand new action 1 and it’s an 8.5 with white pages! Was this an upgrade or an undiscovered copy?!

Not sure how this was freshly graded.  The book was graded in 2017.  I'm guessing it was just simply re-holdered?

Incredible feat and accomplishment, well done!  Now I know why you are Mr. RareHighGrade!

On 4/5/2024 at 11:45 AM, pmpknface said:

I saw what the Punch #12 just got, as I don't have the history with that book like the Mask books, but it seemed to do just fine...  

The CGC 5.5 sold for higher at CC last year I believe for $70k+. The brittle paged copy 4.5 i believe sold less than what it did last time it sold.

On 4/5/2024 at 1:23 PM, Professor K said:

Yep that was one of the big surprises. 25k, 30 maybe. But 50k,  gee whiz.

Was shocked too at that price. I believe my max bid was around $23k. When I saw the final hammer price I was just  

I had the Cap 1 CGC 3.0 valued at $120k max. Book sold aggressively considering there is tape in the interior pages. And you know how tape does overtime affecting the pages... 

A dealer at last year's SDCC sold a DD #1 CGC 9.8 for something like $800k. Whoever paid that price took a bath too big time!