InfantTerrible

It's not a bubble if it doesn't pop 

What goes up, can still go a lot higher 

46 minutes ago, porcupine48 said:

Boobs to this

8 minutes ago, Mt. Dew said:

Agree!! ...will never argue with boobs

2 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:

I'm not disagreeing about the biggest baddest villains, what the thread is about is 'Key issues and most key issues are first appearances/origins and occasionally the death of a character, I would even go so far as to question whether the Infinity Guantlet/wars are 'key' issues, therefore (and I'll retract 100) the first 50 issues of Spidey have numerous 'Key issues regardless of the villains being local or not, and in terms of Value ASM 50 in 9.8 is double the value of FF 49 and 20× the value of IM 55, and I agree with the Magneto dilemma as he appears in X-Men 1 with so many key first appearances, but most of the early spidey villain fa's  are almost as valuable if not more valuable then FF 5. The real interesting question that arises but would take waaay to much research is to value the entire run in 9.8 of the 4 major titles

FF49 is not as valuable because FF48 steals all the thunder

But yeah as @Angel of Death said, value may means more than just being a key, there may be other factors involved, for example artwork: you have to admit ASM50 has iconic artwork, where IM55 has terrible, forgettable artwork

9 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

What's a "key issue" anyways?

oh I dunno, some issues that people are paying 1000X of regular prices

joking aside, for me, key issue = major event or major character first appearance (sorry Agatha, Ronan)

13 hours ago, FineCollector said:

Spider-Man has the most keys, but few with any real significance outside of the Spider-Man title.  What effect did Chameleon, Vulture, Dr Octopus, Electro, Mysterio, or Shocker have in the rest of the Marvel Universe?  Absolutely none.

 

Fantastic Four is the title from which the Marvel Universe was built.

Indeed mate, indeed

7 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:

They don't have to tho, but Kingpin did become Daredevils main adversary, and what about Punisher? He isn't a villain, but massive impact on the Marvel Universe. And Venom, also huge Villain but because of his popularity he became a Anti-hero like Deadpool. Black Panther was heavily influenced by movies, Silver Surfer gained the most popularity from FF in my opinion, and his first appearance is a silver age which explains why it would be more valuable but not necessarily sought after as much as ASM 129. Galactus, yes massive Villain, but as I said the 3 biggest Villains in Marvel are

Magneto-X-Men 1

DR Doom- FF 5

Green Goblin ASM 14

But even Spidey Villains are more valuable then the other super hero books

Disagree. Marvel's biggest, baddest villains are, and in this particular order

Galactus (FF48-49)

Thanos, (IM55, so Avenger's universe can claim his first intro)

Dr. Doom (FF5)

Magneto, but he appears in the series debut, which by default is always key issue

Unfortunately for Spidey, as someone else had said, most of his villains are local criminals, they are nothing more than domestic disturbance, have little impact to the bigger Marvel's universe. BUT his villains do have more personality depth, that's why some of them can be turned into anti-heroes like Punisher, Venom, etc

43 minutes ago, Old_Man_Adam said:

Or Falcon in CA # 117 ? The point is , Avengers has the least ...

 

and I’m sticking with Gambit being major - maybe it’s just me being stubborn and reminiscent but he was a major player on both Uncanny X-Men and the Jim Lee 2ns series as well as the cartoon TV show. It wasn’t long ago that Gambit’s FA was higher than Deadpool’s , I’m sure it will happen again  

Once he gets his own movie, maybe .....just like Morbius 

56 minutes ago, Old_Man_Adam said:

I concur ... ASM is Marvel’s version of Batman in regards to key issues / first appearances and villains . FF may be second in terms of importance of first appearances but for consistency X-Men trumps them ( I mean Gambit was #266, what major FF person was appears after #94 ? And Harkness is a stretch of not for the show ..) Avengers - may have the least of the bunch , but #4 is very significant ....

Avengers universe's keys are bit hard to group, because each of the prominent member has their own series.... In the main series, yes it's a bit thin, #4 and #57.....but then what about Thanos first appearance in IM55? what about Wolverine appearance in IH181?

1 hour ago, littledoom said:

X-Men

What are X-Men major first appearances though? I hardly can think any

47 minutes ago, Old_Man_Adam said:

I concur ... ASM is Marvel’s version of Batman in regards to key issues / first appearances and villains . FF may be second in terms of importance of first appearances but for consistency X-Men trumps them ( I mean Gambit was #266, what major FF person was appears after #94 ? And Harkness is a stretch of not for the show ..) Avengers - may have the least of the bunch , but #4 is very significant ....

I would argue strongly against categorizing Gambit as major. Deadpool YES! ....Gambit? naaahhhh

5 minutes ago, BoogieWoogie said:

Maybe I'm saying this because I am thinking about spending major coin on a copy of Amazing Spider-Man 4 this week but... Sandman a minor character? Yeah he isn't pulling strings like Doom or Norman Osborn but Sandman has been a constant in the Marvel universe since his introduction. He's taken on everyone. And they've all whooped him up but we've seen Sandman against almost every major Marvel hero... I think he stands a bit apart from Lizard, Vulture, etc... even though those are classics with very important first apps!

I know I'm gonna get roasted here, but yes I think Sandman is minor....

4 minutes ago, Rip said:

Sinister Six rip

c'mon you know SS is lame 

14 minutes ago, Rip said:

For the amount of Keys Amazing Spider-man wins hands down. FF has some big ones under issue 55 but after that it drys up fast.

Spider-Man may have Marvels deepest more popular villain roster. 
Venom, Carnage, Kingpin, Sandman, Vuture, Scorpion, Electro, Lizard, Kraven, Mysterio, Chameleon, Rhino, Hob-Goblin, Shocker, Green Goblin, Doc Ock.

Plus you have the Death of Green Goblin story, Punisher, Morbius, Black-Cat, and others.

oh yeah, forgot about Morbius, he has his own comic series and gonna get his own movie, that makes him a major character....

I think Punisher, Venom, Carnage, Morbius, Green Goblin, Doc Oc, Kingpin are major characters, the rest of them are minor villains...

16 minutes ago, god503 said:

Spidy all the way....  Lots of key 1st appearances...

But most of them are for minor characters though, sandman, lizard, vulture.....The key issues from Spidey universe with major characters are Punisher and Venom

It's hard to argue sandman, lizard, vulture are in the same class as Punisher, Venom, ...or FF's Dr. Doom, Galactus, Silver Surfer, Black Panther

Same with X-Men, most of the 1st appearances are minor characters.....

4 minutes ago, sonicyouth1 said:

I forgot to ask

what about books like Captain America #6 (1st winter soldier)  Is that key a part of the “avengers universe”? A 
or are we strictly referencing the avengers title only

thanks!
 

 

yeah.....Avengers's 'keys' are a bit hard to group, because each of key their members have prominent series, and those series have their own keys ....and none of their key members even started in Avengers main series... *scratches head*

13 minutes ago, sonicyouth1 said:

X-men and Spider-Man universe has an insane amount of keys. Probably x-men. They have so many teams that resonate in pop culture today. Gold. Blue. Force. Factor.new mutants. Etc.. 

none of them have needed Movies or shows to be popular.  

however spidey universe has so many key books like wos #118, they can be be easily overlooked.

X-men keys are all super liquid during summer time convention season especially if an x-men artist or writer like Claremont is in attendance.

alas my opinion is subjective, but not many universes can compete with spidey and mutants for beloved keys. 
 

I guess the question would be what exact titles we are comparing. ASM might not have quite as many keys as UXM but as a whole the spidey universe might be neck and neck with the x-men universe. 
 

 

I've never been a big X-Men fan, that's why I'm not familiar with the comics. Only X-Men I care is Wolverine, and his first appearance is not even in X-Men series

13 minutes ago, JTD said:

You are missing a lot of them...I guess “major” and “iconic” are subjective though...

Yes, it's subjective....Dr. Doom or Galactus I understand, they are iconic, but Ronan??? c'mon. I know he appeared in one of FF issue, I don't remember which, but I just don't think he's iconic enough to be considered key.

Another example, FF94, this issue was never key as late as last year, I could've gotten this for cheap.......but then all of a sudden it's a key, because .....avoiding spoiler.........a streaming TV show features a character, and this character first appeared in FF94. Excuse me?!?? Just because a minor character appears in streaming show for a secondary character (not even a blockbuster movie for a primary character) now the issue is 'key' and everyone jacked up the issue price 1000%....

Same way I don't consider lizard or sandman as iconic characters in Spider-Man. 

FF52 for 25 bucks 😂😂😂....and no one bought

When I mean by key is that major events or iconic characters, so for example for Fantastic Four: FF1, 5, 13, 25, 48, 49, 52

Spider-Man: AF15, SM1, 3, 14, 42, 50, 129, 300

I'm no expert, so that's all that I can think of on the top of my head for FF and Spider-Man. I"m not too familiar with X-Men or Avengers key issues.

Today I just followed a someone at IG who has all the grails mentioned here, XMen1, GSX1, ASM1, AF15, Hulk1, ToS39, FF1, FF48, JiM83, IH181, ASM129, Ave1, Ave57, DD1 plus many more silver age goodies.....all in 9+ grade, and he just keeps them in plastic/board....amazing

prolly one of you guys 😜......or maybe not, since he said he's not into graded/slab 

The X-Men I care about is Wolvie, so ASM1 anytime anyday to me

Yea my TV is really outdated, it’s not even 4K, still the old 1080p ....

Money is wasted on toys and comics😆😆😆

So I just read past threads about pressed comics....if pressing has negative effects on comics, then why people keep doing it? ...and why CGC does't deduct points for pressed comics, or at least mark them as restored copy?