InfantTerrible

12 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

Here’s another thread on the subject....

 

If this is the future of collectibles, then individual collectors have no chance, what's stopping others setting another LLC like this....

9 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

 

damn....

On 3/25/2021 at 9:50 PM, inovrmihd said:

Prices of sports cards are soaring.  I attributed this to a combination of two factors;  1)  new collectors due to COVID who got into sports, here and around the world; 2)  money printing/speculation/fomo, etc.  the second factor is the bigger dynamic. It is easy to see this second factor.  I would like opinions on whether the comic market has also experienced a wave of new legitimate collectors.  I am not talking about just speculators and I am not talking at all about the rush to get out of cash.  I am seeking opinions on whether the number of people who are genuinely interested in the hobby.  As far as I can tell, the stamp market is dying, and the coin market, which I believe was for a long time the king of collectible (nine active) hobbies, is dying out.  There are still plenty of wealthy people who grew up as coin collectors are still active, but there is absolutely no nostalgia value and I don’t see any young collectors entering the hobby.  I thought comics would go the same way, especially with digital comics, but I can understand how sports cards can attract new collectors who might be interested in the history and know about the great players even though they never saw them play.  I can get why someone that starts collecting cards of modern players would be interested in owning a Willie Mays or Oscar Robertson or Walter Peyton card.  Are their new people getting into comics that are real collectors as opposed to simply investors, speculators, or TINA types who hear they will triple their money on social media?  I haven’t been following prices until recently, and I am asking because because their seems like the bulk of the appreciation is going to new ultra rare cards, or keys.  I am sure there have been plenty of observations about that, as well as speculative further bubble talk, but I just want to know about the number of new “collectors”, the people who would appreciate a semi key, for example.  It is easy for a non collector to understand the desirability of the first issue of Spider-Man, but difficult for a non collector to understand the first issue where the Hulk fights the Fantastic Four, or something even more esoteric like Defenders #10.  I would appreciate any thoughts, specific to this narrow question.

Sports cards are exploding because there's that one site where you can share ownership of high valued cards, so basically just bunch of group of collectors bidding against another  group.

There's no such thing in comic books, at least not yet...lets hope not, keep the hobby to individual collectors

20 minutes ago, oldmilwaukee6er said:

Todd McFarlane, at the 25:42 mark of his Wondercon @ Home 2021 video, stated that in 2020 Image had...

1. More titles debut over 100,000 copies than in the last 10yrs.
2. Even mid tier Image books are selling 2-3 times their normal numbers and
3. Spawn has seen increases of 200-600% the last 5-6 issues. 

Interesting points. Again because of pandemic, people stuck at home, nothing to do. So people are ordering comics online or digital version. And probably the same story with Marvel and DC comics. And these new readers become the new batch of collectors.

Who would've thought pandemic actually brings in new interest to comic books

I think this has a chance to catch or even exceed IH181 in term of value. IH181 is plateauing, while this is still climbing.

Wolverine is much more popular than BP, but FF52 is far more rare than IH181

YOLO!

$VNOM to the moon!!

16 hours ago, zosocane said:

 

6.  All of this is without any of us having gotten even a whiff of what Marvel Studios has up its sleeve for the X-Men and Fantastic Four sub-universes.  Imagine how the market will react when those franchises come to life, and that probably won't happen until 2023 or 2024, at the soonest. 

We had like 10-12 X-Men movies in the past 20 years, from mediocre at best to downright bad ........I think people can live without the franchise for while

Fantastic Four on the other hand.....now that has the potential to explode

the high prices are here to stay. Superheroes are mainstream now.

Just look at the prices for that mega-blockbuster Apr-1 Heritage auction, really rich people are bidding there

56 minutes ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

I agree.  FF #12 will always be the big FF / Hulk crossover key, but this book is basically the runner-up and that should mean lots of demand from people who don't want to spend the money for a 12.

#12 is not even all out brawl between Ben and Hulk.....plus #25 cover is much better than #12

325-Billions going to American's pockets in recent weeks, even if tiny portion of that going to collectibles, it will still affect this industry

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/stimulus-checks-irs-status

..and more still coming

1 hour ago, Shrevvy said:

My first win this time around:

That’s pretty sharp copy, could easily be a 9.8. Congrats

What price guide site do you guys use? I use GoCollect, and ComicLink auction results pretty much destroyed the prices over there for a good 20-40%

Is ComicLink reliable/legit? ....because their site is pretty archaic, outdated, like from the 90s. Their account registration form is so old school

47 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Well, just a quick update:

I did go ahead and place a bid on Clink. Not aggressive, just bid what I paid for a comparable issue last month (which I thought was high). Got out bid on the last seconds, so I was the second highest bidder. 
 

I’m both relived and frankly, kind of glad. What does that say?

 

 

Just for some perspective:  

About 5 years ago I sold a 9.4 Detective Comics #403 on Clink for $137. 
 

A couple months ago I paid $200 for a 9.4 which again, I felt was kinda high, but it has been 5 years and it was a really sharp copy and I really wanted it. 
 

Tonight a 9.4 sold on Clink for $325. 
 

Not key. Not a Pedigree. Not highest graded. Just nuts. 

I got outbid to last seconds on some FF issues, it's absolutely nuts!!!

5 minutes ago, StingerMcK said:

I think the first to fall will be the spec bros buying junk every Wednesday. At my local shop there are customers who only buy variants and whatever today's 1st appearance is. Holding their phone, looking at the spec app that's telling them what new issue to buy. And they grade everything immediately.  

Once those start dropping, it's not fun anymore. 

YES, that I can agree with, new/modern comics speculators will get destroyed!......but old key comics, nah they are safe, too many demands for them, not enough copies

1 minute ago, Darkowl said:

But it’s not your response that changes the outcome.

I'm just an average man, chances are my response will be similar to other average comic enthusiasts

2 minutes ago, Darkowl said:

It’s easy to say that now, but if we’re facing a situation where a H181 9+ is suddenly at 5K? What’s to stop it from from sinking even deeper?

If it gets to that point, the thinking then becomes 'heh, it's only 5K....it's nothing, but at least i got a nice copy of the book I've always wanted'

4 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

Let’s go big.  Let’s say HULK 181 in 9.8 drops from its current 60k price tag to 50k. Are you buying at 50?

no, because I don't have any 20K to spare, as simple as that, my comics budget 10-15K, ...but many other people can afford and will jump on it

put up our IH181 CGC9+ for 5K, I'll buy it now 

2 minutes ago, god503 said:

I have my signed 181 at 8.0 listed for 10K...  

Can't stand signed copy, I avoid it like a plague.

1 minute ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

Everyone says this, but not many actually buy into a sinking ship. 

Please give me a chance to prove it ....put up your IH181 CGC9+ for 5K, I'll buy it, I'll show you for real 

3 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

The really rich collectors are a tiny percentage of those invested at this price level.  It’s investors.  Short-term investors I imagine.  When the prices stop going up, they will sell and invest somewhere else. 

Believe me if 'these investors' dump IH181 CGC 9+ at 5K, I'll buy 4, if it goes down further to 2K, I'll buy another 10

6 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

That’s the thing.  The catalyst will be a lull in the market.  That lull will cause many to panic, which in turn will cause specs to start selling.   

Why a lull in the market cause people to panic? You assume only speculators buying these items at inflated prices.....you ignore that there are some really rich collectors buying these with no intention of selling or no intention to make profit out of it

16 minutes ago, Darkowl said:

I agree in that the current market isn’t like the one in the 90’s. This is definitely different. 

But that first factor you listed was already contributing to a gradual rise in prices long before the kind of rapid growth we’ve seen in the last few months (minus a couple exceptions). 

Other factors are at play now, and It’s become a game where the the highest selling BIN listing on eBay doesn’t take long to become the new standard asking price. It’s insanity and madness all rolled into one. 

Covid, lockdowns, stimulus money, tax return, bored rich people, and baseball card collectors migrating our way are probably bigger contributors to the inflation than superhero movies, imo, though that too will always be a contributing factor.

So even though the components constructing this current situation are different from the components that built the bubble from the 90’s, we’re still facing a situation that most certainly resembles a bubble. 

This kind of growth just isn’t sustainable, imo. It’ll either level off soon or crash hard, regardless of how many superhero movies get made.

Leveling off/some sort of cooling down where prices go down slowly/gradually (until they find a floor) = probably

Crash = unlikely, for a crash to happen there has to be some catalyst, a drastic event that will force people dump their collection at the same time

This is not like the 90s. Two important factors why

1. Back in the 90s, there were hardly any superhero movies. Today not only we have blockbuster movies, but we also have weekly Disney+ superhero shows, plus some other b-class shows like Arrow-verse, Batwoman, etc. Superhero is mainstream now. It's not just reserved to the niche geeky market like in the 70s-90s

2. Internet/Online marketplace, let say your 'hypothetical bubble' burst, who wouldn't jump on IH181 CGC 9+ at 5K??? ....lots of people will. With internet the marketplace is open-wide. Unless there's another Great Depression where even the upper-class need to have access to some cash, no one is dumping these semi-luxury items in hordes