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PGX Sale Prices versus CGC

Started by CycleGirl,

184 posts in this topic

CycleGirl

CycleGirl

Posted
Posted

It seems that whenever the subject of PGX comes up, that the conversation becomes antagonistic. For that reason, I haven't joined-in even though I have some experience. I decided to start a new thread hoping to discuss the pros/cons of PGX/CGC in a data-driven manner.

 

A couple of years ago, I made use of PGX. Eugene is only about an hour from me and many of the books I wanted graded were of moderate value. For a SA book worth less than $80, the $30 cost of CGC grading (all things considered after discount and RT shipping) is almost prohibitive.

 

By driving down to Eugene, I paid about $14 a book for grading. And yes, I met Daniel.

 

The grades that I received from PGX were a bit lower than I was expecting, but now that I have a lot more experience with 3rd party grading, I accept that Daniel's grading was more accurate than my own.

 

About a year ago, after becoming active on these boards, I learned that PGX slabs were at a disadvantage, in terms of resale price, to CGC slabs. CGC, as we all know, is the gold standard. I also became interested in the CGC registry. I decided, to resub a few books to CGC, partially to fill a few holes in my registry sets but also, I was curious about how the grading would compare.

 

GRADING COMPARE

________________PGX GRADE__CGC GRADE

Silver Surfer #1______8.0____________7.5

X-Men #4__________5.5____________6.0

X-Men #62_________8.5____________8.0

X-Men #63_________9.0____________8.5

X-Men #66_________8.5____________8.0

 

As you can see, I typically dropped 0.5 points. In one case, I got a +0.5 bump.

 

RESALE VALUE

 

I recently sold some ASM books that had PGX grades. Here are the results.

 

________________SALE PRICE__12-MO GPA (for CGC books)

ASM#38-PGX 5.0____$41____________$ 46.62

ASM #40 PGX 5.5____$56.55_________$ 68.06

ASM #45 PGX 6.0____$41____________$ 48.53

X-MEN #6 PGX 4.0___$73.51_________$ 58.59

X-MEN #38 PGX 7.0___$46___________$ 34.95

X-Men #50 PGX 8.0___$46___________$ 55.34

=========================================

AVERAGE___________$50.68_________$52.02

 

Here is my interpretation of the data.

 

1) PGX grading is usually within 0.5 points of CGC grading in the grade range I submitted (5.5 to 9.0)

 

2) PGX books net almost as much as CGC books in the low-end of slabbed books.

 

I have not bought or sold PGX books of higher value (>$80 or so). I believe, from casual observation of Ebay auctions, that as the prices get higher, CGC books begin to command a higher premium. Personally, if I'm looking at a >$150 book, I will ONLY consider CGC.

 

In the end, I thought that the service that PGX delivered was worth the price that I paid. CGC was simply too expensive for low-end slabs.

 

I would love to hear what others have learned buying/selling PGX slabs or in using their service.

 

 

 

 

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codfish

codfish

Posted
Posted

People are often overpaying for PGX books once you get down to to 6.0 and below. PGX often vastly overgrades these books so perhaps PGX nets more. In the end it matters little to me because I just don't trust their "work".

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DrWatson

DrWatson

Posted
Posted

I have learned that I can typically buy a high grade PGX cheaper than a high grade CGC, resubmit the PGX to CGC, resell it and make money. It has been my experience that PGX is a little tougher on the higher grades and at more lenient on the lower grades. However, I would be hard pressed to trust some of their earlier work. A 9.8 GS X-men #1 PGX just sold on CLink for about $6,000, if it had been a CGC it would have gone for twice that. You know that baby is going to be packed up for a resub. to CGC.

 

 

Come on guys, I think she is looking for some serious responses. (:

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

Posted
Posted

Understood, but in a way, it was a serious response.

 

The fact is that you cannot in any way trust a book in a PGX slab. Under any circumstances. Ever.

 

They do not have a restoration check of any reliability...if they have one at all. You can never be too sure that the book in your hand didn't come from the Eugene 'cartel', and therefore could have been manipulated, bumped in grade, etc, etc

 

And if you're submitting to PGX, you are risking your money every time you slap down your credit card. The organisation is tiny and could at any point collapse, thus risking your slabbing fees, and the value of anything you have in a PGX case.

 

For all of these reasons, there simply isn't a valid comparison to be made. One is an international, professional, reputable organisation...the other is a one-man band selling dodgy goods from a market stall.

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Red Hook

Red Hook

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Posted

Daniel has had a major credibility problem almost from day one, and has never....EVER.....cleared that up. To me, that undermines the legitimacy of the whole operation.

 

It's not rocket science.

 

It's business 101, and Daniel gets an F.

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

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Posted
You make it sound like there is one little man sitting in a back room working a slabbing machine with foot pedals humming "Whistle While You Work" as he cranks out comic books.

 

:o :o :o

 

You're the first person I know of who has actually visited the PGX 'offices'!

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Red Hook

Red Hook

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Posted
You make it sound like there is one little man sitting in a back room working a slabbing machine with foot pedals humming "Whistle While You Work" as he cranks out comic books.

 

You nailed it. And the burden of proof to the contrary rests with Daniel.

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szelim

szelim

Posted
Posted
I have not bought or sold PGX books of higher value (>$80 or so). I believe, from casual observation of Ebay auctions, that as the prices get higher, CGC books begin to command a higher premium. Personally, if I'm looking at a >$150 book, I will ONLY consider CGC.

This is the key discussion point. Many people are not likely to risk very large amounts of money buying books whose grading and integrity may be suspect. Fewer intererested buyers will translate to lower prices, especially for high value books.

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Davenport

Davenport

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By driving down to Eugene, I paid about $14 a book for grading. And yes, I met Daniel.

I appreciate the sales data and don't doubt it. But the most important part of your post is the "driving down to Eugene".

 

Did you enter the facility? Can you describe it? If so yours would be the first post I've ever read where someone actually went there. Anything you could describe would add to the public knowledge about PGX, simplistic stuff like the building and employees. Something Daniel has steadfastly refused to do over the years.

 

Early on I thought competition was good for the hobby. Still do actually, and its sad PGX seems to have gotten caught up with how easy it is to print cash via a labelmaker, and sadder still that that’s not so unusual in the history of collectibles authentication services.

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ciorac

ciorac

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the informative post.

 

I recently had a book slabbed by PGX for the first time. I'll share with you my experience:

 

1. The first call to PGX resulted in speaking with Daniel and we disucssed pricing, timing etc

2. Sent the book off

3. Had some communication problems for a few days. I later learned he was at Comic Con

4. Promptly upon his return he gave me a call apologizing for the lack of communication

5. During the grading process (a walk-through) I spoke with Daniel, Dave and Allison. Dave and I spoke several times. He was courteous, informative, explained to me what made them hedge on the grade and ultimately how they determined the final grade. He made an extra effort to pack it up very securely, and sent it out FedEx for overnight delivery

6. I received and email confirmation of the tracking number and other pertinent information

7. The book looks great in the holder and overall I was very pleased with the transaction on a high dollar item

 

I've read numerous threads where others had less than perfect experiences with them, and many others where negative observations have been made from the sidelines.

 

I am in no position to agree or disagree with anyone's opinion on PGX, but from my personal, recent, experience I think they did a fine job. I plan to send them another book after Chicago.

 

 

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CycleGirl

CycleGirl

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Thanks for the informative post.

 

I recently had a book slabbed by PGX for the first time. I'll share with you my experience:

 

[....]

 

I've read numerous threads where others had less than perfect experiences with them, and many others where negative observations have been made from the sidelines.

 

I am in no position to agree or disagree with anyone's opinion on PGX, but from my personal, recent, experience I think they did a fine job. I plan to send them another book after Chicago.

 

 

Thanks for the great post ciorac.

 

What is your opinion regarding the final grade assigned? Do you think it was the same as what CGC would have assigned?

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