PGX Sale Prices versus CGC

[TheShadowKnows]

... you live in Eugene then you are part of a cartel.

 

Yeah....we know that already. Eugene is the Waco of comic book scam artists.

 

 

People we are talking about comics.Lets put it in perspective.Not war,not drug dealing cartels,Comic books.

 

No, we're not really talking about comic books....

...we're talking about money. Money and the lengths to which people will go to avoid making an honest living.

All im saying is how do you paint all of Oregon with a tainted paint brush?They are good sellers and bad sellers in Oregon.You are all assuming wrongly.But whatever.You all seem to have your minds made up.

[Red Hook]

I'm half kidding you know.

 

Half.

 

My daughter actually visited Portland recently and said it was amazing.

[TheShadowKnows]

... you live in Eugene then you are part of a cartel.

 

Yeah....we know that already. Eugene is the Waco of comic book scam artists.

 

 

People we are talking about comics.Lets put it in perspective.Not war,not drug dealing cartels,Comic books.

 

No, we're not really talking about comic books....

...we're talking about money. Money and the lengths to which people will go to avoid making an honest living.

All im saying is how do you paint all of Oregon with a tainted paint brush?They are good sellers and bad sellers in Oregon.You are all assuming wrongly.But whatever.You all seem to have your minds made up.

ps I guess working 60 hours a week isnt a honest living

[Red Hook]

I wasn't talking about you, right? Or am I wrong?

[OldGuy]

it.

 

FDQ out.

 

See ya'll in Chicago. I'm done with this place.

 

[TheShadowKnows]

I wasn't talking about you, right? Or am I wrong?

You are right sir.

Check some of the fine sellers I have done business with in oregon.Nostalgiacollectibles oldest shop in oregon around since 1972,arthome,escapebooks and many others.All im saying is know your seller and dont generalize about Oregon.

[TheShadowKnows]

I'm half kidding you know.

 

Half.

 

My daughter actually visited Portland recently and said it was amazing.

Portland is a amazing town.They even have a great comic book show twice a year.

[Red Hook]

Which one?

[MutantKeys]

My daughter actually visited Portland recently and said it was amazing.

Pics??? Ive never seen any pics of Portland

[TheShadowKnows]

It is put on by Richard who used to own second genesis.i get the flyer in the mail.It is usually in conjunction with a Seattle show the week before.Will post dates when I know more.Ask Harley Yee about portland and Eugene.He has been to both.

[Scheradon]

Some of my thoughts after reading through this thread...

 

I have several reasons for not owning or planning to own any PGX slabbed books. One being their resto check, which has shown gaping failures as seen in the PGX stepped on an atom bomb thread.

 

Some may say that CGC has missed resto too, such as seen in the Ewart fiasco...but, the micro trimming done there was atleast very difficult to spot. Some of the horrible trim jobs that slipped by PGX makes me realize they would have never caught on to the Ewart style trimmings.

 

There is also a lot of confusion/secrecy surrounding their relationships with those known to be submitting these frankenbooks with on and off again bannings (if there ever even were any). CGC came right out and banned Ewart -much better handled.

 

Next problem I have is that I am a HG (9.8+) collector. You have to choose a company that you can trust for online sales where you cannot inspect the book in hand. A company where when you lay down multiples of guide for a HG book, you are getting a product that will...a) let you feel confident that it will be in said grade b) restoration free (when buying unrestored) and b) Sustain better value for possible resale down the road. CGC has PGX beat in all three catagories IMO.

 

In keeping with the HG concerns, and I've brought this up before, is that when I key in PGX 9.9 on eBay I get 4 active and 308 books in stores. Now 264 of those in store books are offered for sale by ONE seller. That kind of single domination by one individual seller makes me very leary. This seller also has a very large selection of CGC books, but for some reason his CGC books tend to get 9.8s where his PGX books get the 9.9s...very odd to me. My opinion? I believe those PGX 9.9s are suspect.

 

Some may say, that perhaps he submits a lot of books to PGX and therefore has a big selection of 9.9s. My problem is, that he has also sent a lot of HG books to CGC but has failed to get the same kind of 9.9 ratio he has gotten from PGX.

 

Also, even though there are far more CGC books out there for sale, there are only 22 active and 104 CGC 9.9 books in stores on eBay. That's almost a 1 to 3 ratio in favor of PGX books in this HG.

 

These are a few concerns I have with PGX and plenty enough for me to continue to steer clear of them for my comic grading business.

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Zipper]

These are a few concerns I have with PGX and plenty enough for me to continue to steer clear of them for my comic grading business.

 

Very valid points, John.

 

Further, just look to the PGX 9.8 GS X-Men 1 that recently went for around $6K if I recall correctly.

 

Is there anyone here with the stones to drop 6 bills on a PGX 9.8? Anyone that could wait out the return trip from CGC with no worries that it would still be a) 9.8 and/or b) not restored?

 

Despite CGC's problems, one can still spend a lot of money on a CGC book with a reasonable amount of confidence that they are getting what they paid for. I don't think many would say the same for PGX.

 

PGX might be moderately better than buying raw on ebay and might be excellent for modestly priced books. Anything more than that and it's not worth the gamble.

 

[TheShadowKnows]

Some of my thoughts after reading through this thread...

 

I have several reasons for not owning or planning to own any PGX slabbed books. One being their resto check, which has shown gaping failures as seen in the PGX stepped on an atom bomb thread.

 

Some may say that CGC has missed resto too, such as seen in the Ewart fiasco...but, the micro trimming done there was atleast very difficult to spot. Some of the horrible trim jobs that slipped by PGX makes me realize they would have never caught on to the Ewart style trimmings.

 

There is also a lot of confusion/secrecy surrounding their relationships with those known to be submitting these frankenbooks with on and off again bannings (if there ever even were any). CGC came right out and banned Ewart -much better handled.

 

Next problem I have is that I am a HG (9.8+) collector. You have to choose a company that you can trust for online sales where you cannot inspect the book in hand. A company where when you lay down multiples of guide for a HG book, you are getting a product that will...a) let you feel confident that it will be in said grade b) restoration free (when buying unrestored) and b) Sustain better value for possible resale down the road. CGC has PGX beat in all three catagories IMO.

 

In keeping with the HG concerns, and I've brought this up before, is that when I key in PGX 9.9 on eBay I get 4 active and 308 books in stores. Now 264 of those in store books are offered for sale by ONE seller. That kind of single domination by one individual seller makes me very leary. This seller also has a very large selection of CGC books, but for some reason his CGC books tend to get 9.8s where his PGX books get the 9.9s...very odd to me. My opinion? I believe those PGX 9.9s are suspect.

 

Some may say, that perhaps he submits a lot of books to PGX and therefore has a big selection of 9.9s. My problem is, that he has also sent a lot of HG books to CGC but has failed to get the same kind of 9.9 ratio he has gotten from PGX.

 

Also, even though there are far more CGC books out there for sale, there are only 22 active and 104 CGC 9.9 books in stores on eBay. That's almost a 1 to 3 ratio in favor of PGX books in this HG.

 

These are a few concerns I have with PGX and plenty enough for me to continue to steer clear of them for my comic grading business.

 

 

 

A very good post without hating on either comany.Good job.

[sterlingcomics]

By driving down to Eugene, I paid about $14 a book for grading. And yes, I met Daniel.

 

 

Did you get the chance to meet the rest of the staff?

 

Yeah, got any pics of the grading facility?

 

PGX does in fact have a "sweet spot" that was eluded to in the inital post. Our very own Bassgman has stated that on many occasions, he uses PGX where it fits (from a profitability perspective). He hasn't posted here in forever, so I don't know his current stance (other than collecting bass guitars). From a buyer's perspective, I'd rather take my chances buying raw due to the price differential and limited confidence in the product.

 

I've never submitted to PGX and never plan to--so my observations to CycleGirl will be obviously biased and limited.

[Red Hook]

By driving down to Eugene, I paid about $14 a book for grading. And yes, I met Daniel.

 

 

Did you get the chance to meet the rest of the staff?

 

Yeah, got any pics of the grading facility?

 

Hey, it's not Sarasota....but they call it home.....

 

[eddly]

I would just like to add that I have been to Eugene Oregon before, albeit by accident. I missed our turnoff and found myself there, I was trying to get to Utah to visit family.

 

We stopped at a gas station in Eugene, and asked for directions for the best way to get to Utah. There was a group of 5 or so 20 somethings and they were all like Utah? whats that? .

[The Black Hand ®]

It seems that whenever the subject of PGX comes up, that the conversation becomes antagonistic. For that reason, I haven't joined-in even though I have some experience. I decided to start a new thread hoping to discuss the pros/cons of PGX/CGC in a data-driven manner.

 

A couple of years ago, I made use of PGX. Eugene is only about an hour from me and many of the books I wanted graded were of moderate value. For a SA book worth less than $80, the $30 cost of CGC grading (all things considered after discount and RT shipping) is almost prohibitive.

 

By driving down to Eugene, I paid about $14 a book for grading. And yes, I met Daniel.

 

The grades that I received from PGX were a bit lower than I was expecting, but now that I have a lot more experience with 3rd party grading, I accept that Daniel's grading was more accurate than my own.

 

About a year ago, after becoming active on these boards, I learned that PGX slabs were at a disadvantage, in terms of resale price, to CGC slabs. CGC, as we all know, is the gold standard. I also became interested in the CGC registry. I decided, to resub a few books to CGC, partially to fill a few holes in my registry sets but also, I was curious about how the grading would compare.

 

GRADING COMPARE

________________PGX GRADE__CGC GRADE

Silver Surfer #1______8.0____________7.5

X-Men #4__________5.5____________6.0

X-Men #62_________8.5____________8.0

X-Men #63_________9.0____________8.5

X-Men #66_________8.5____________8.0

 

As you can see, I typically dropped 0.5 points. In one case, I got a +0.5 bump.

 

RESALE VALUE

 

I recently sold some ASM books that had PGX grades. Here are the results.

 

________________SALE PRICE__12-MO GPA (for CGC books)

ASM#38-PGX 5.0____$41____________$ 46.62

ASM #40 PGX 5.5____$56.55_________$ 68.06

ASM #45 PGX 6.0____$41____________$ 48.53

X-MEN #6 PGX 4.0___$73.51_________$ 58.59

X-MEN #38 PGX 7.0___$46___________$ 34.95

X-Men #50 PGX 8.0___$46___________$ 55.34

=========================================

AVERAGE___________$50.68_________$52.02

 

Here is my interpretation of the data.

 

1) PGX grading is usually within 0.5 points of CGC grading in the grade range I submitted (5.5 to 9.0)

 

2) PGX books net almost as much as CGC books in the low-end of slabbed books.

 

I have not bought or sold PGX books of higher value (>$80 or so). I believe, from casual observation of Ebay auctions, that as the prices get higher, CGC books begin to command a higher premium. Personally, if I'm looking at a >$150 book, I will ONLY consider CGC.

 

In the end, I thought that the service that PGX delivered was worth the price that I paid. CGC was simply too expensive for low-end slabs.

 

I would love to hear what others have learned buying/selling PGX slabs or in using their service.

 

 

 

 

I thought your post was a very intelligent and well thought out analysis. Most everything I read about PGX on the CGC boards I usually disregard because of obvious bias, but your even handed approach was very refreshing as well as informative. Thank's.

[CycleGirl]

By driving down to Eugene, I paid about $14 a book for grading. And yes, I met Daniel.

 

 

Did you get the chance to meet the rest of the staff?

 

Yeah, got any pics of the grading facility?

 

<>.

 

At the risk of fueling the fire....

 

I indirectly tried to get a look at the "grading facility". I offered, multiple times, to drop the ungraded books off at his location. After the books were graded, I offered to pick the books up from PGX. Both times I was given the option of dropping off and picking up at one of two comic shops in Eugene. The one I used was Nostalgia Collectibles.

 

In both dropping off and picking up, it was Daniel himself who did the hauling. I was left with the impression that the facility is his home and that it is basically a one-man company. I reasoned that if Daniel had an assistant of any kind, driving around Eugene picking up and dropping off would be the most likely task delegated to that person.

 

Flaming Telepath pointed out that the books you send to PGX are at some risk since we can't know how solvent the company is. I didn't think of that at the time , and now that I'm dealing in higher-grade books, security, insurance and financial solvency need to be considerations.

 

I feel like I'm walking a fine line here. On the one hand, I've dealt with many sole proprietors and Daniel lived up to his end of the bargain in every way. I therefore do not want to join in the chorus of those who bash him on these boards.

 

On the other hand, I've decided against using PGX services in the future. My reasons are strictly economic, however. I believe that for the books I'm interested in, that CGC is simply a better value when you take everything into account. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my previous post.

 

CG

[sborock]

"CGC is simply a better value "

 

I like that (thumbs u

[The Black Hand ®]

Does anyone here agree that competition is good for the consumer as well as the marketplace? And that it stands to reason that this would apply to third party grading services.