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What OA Can You Get For $30K

Started by clemso,

102 posts in this topic

clemso

clemso

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Bill, you could as easily start a threat with "What OA Can You Get for $1K?" and get a bucket of responses.

 

This particular thread is intriguing but misleading. It suggests that there isn't any good comic artwork out there unless you're prepared to pay New Car money. Or New House money, for that matter. It just ain't so.

 

That's like saying, you can't afford any "fine art" if you can't afford a Monet or a Picasso. Pretty silly, eh?

 

Sure, most of us aren't ever gonna get to own a Jack Kirby/Fantastic Four cover. And, if that thought somehow drives some collectors to abandon the hobby, well, they weren't really collectors of comic art: They were only collectors of Jack Kirby's Fantastic Four comic art.

 

That doesn't mean there isn't some great OA out there that the rest of us can and will buy. Which brings up another interesting thread idea: "Who's the Next Jack 'King' Kirby?" Because let's pick up that guy's art NOW.

 

One might say that Jim Lee X-Men & Todd McFarlane Spider-Man are the new Kirby/Ditko whatever, but look at the prices for their covers now. Relatively they are worth more than Kirby and I wouldn't swap a Kirby splash for either.

 

Clem...

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heartened

heartened

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Bill, you could as easily start a threat with "What OA Can You Get for $1K?" and get a bucket of responses.

 

This particular thread is intriguing but misleading. It suggests that there isn't any good comic artwork out there unless you're prepared to pay New Car money. Or New House money, for that matter. It just ain't so.

 

That's like saying, you can't afford any "fine art" if you can't afford a Monet or a Picasso. Pretty silly, eh?

 

Sure, most of us aren't ever gonna get to own a Jack Kirby/Fantastic Four cover. And, if that thought somehow drives some collectors to abandon the hobby, well, they weren't really collectors of comic art: They were only collectors of Jack Kirby's Fantastic Four comic art.

 

That doesn't mean there isn't some great OA out there that the rest of us can and will buy. Which brings up another interesting thread idea: "Who's the Next Jack 'King' Kirby?" Because let's pick up that guy's art NOW.

 

Absolutely! True comic art fans should be able to adjust their collecting focus as prices change. I remember when I was younger and I was collecting the books, I focused on those I could afford. I wasn't thinking about getting an ASM #1 or an AF #15, I was concentrating on finding a ASM #50 or something else in my price range.

 

Would comic book collectors be as discouraged if this were a thread about "What comic book could you get for 30K?" You don't see the comic book folks getting that upset about comic book prices, right? Why is that? (rhetorical question, of course). Unlike us, they have accepted the fact that they can't get everything they want. Some books have been priced out of their range. They live with it, readjust their focus, and moe on. We'll have to do the same.

 

The only difference between the comic book hobby and the comic art hobby, in this respect, is that we're currently living through the maturing process (value-wise) of comic art, whereas books already reached these levels a decade ago.

 

Hari

 

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vodou

vodou

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The only difference between the comic book hobby and the comic art hobby, in this respect, is that we're currently living through the maturing process (value-wise) of comic art, whereas books already reached these levels a decade ago.

 

Hari

 

Hi Hari,

 

The other big (BIGGEST) difference is that pieces of OA are unique. I'm only a check or credit card authorization away from owning NM+ copies of any book in the world (maybe not the MH, but the Lamont, or the...) Not so with OA. There are pieces that I could sell everything I own for - and make a cash offer of 3-5x what the current owner paid - and still not end up with the art. I mean really - who would finally get their grail and then just give it up for an exceptionally profitable rate of return? Not me either!

 

Not so with comics. If I let go of a group of NM+ books for $50k, I'm feeling like I can replace them (may cost more) very easily down the road. Painful to even consider letting go of my top ten pieces of OA and whether or not I could ever get them back.

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vodou

vodou

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True comic art fans should be able to adjust their collecting focus as prices change.

 

I'll have to disagree with this statement. I'm a 'true comic art fan' but do find myself looking elsewhere for OA these days.

 

Each January I do my own Year in Review for OA purchases from the previous year. I'm finding that less and less comic art but more illustration art comes in. Now I'm not selling or trading my comic art, just not buying as much new. And that's due to upward pricing. If I told you the kind of stuff I used to get for under $300 in the mid-late 90s it would make you cry. That same stuff now - when offered - goes for $800-$5k per now. Pretty much across the board.

 

What goes for under $300 now SUCKS (IMO) to own. It's either just plain bad art (IMO again) or from books/artists of a recent vintage, stuff I'm just not collecting/reading or even browsing. Truly the 'under $300' art of today is of no interest to me...to buy/own. I like looking at dealer sites and collector's galleries of all sorts of art, but I don't need the actual art.

 

And so maybe I have to agree with Hari's statement above after all. I have adjusted my collecting focus, mostly out of comic art to illustration art. At least I haven't cashed in. Yet. And that's because I love the stuff I've got and know that it's irreplaceable, economically as well as physically.

 

The gallant among you can feel free to offer me any Zeck Captain America covers you've got for $600-$4k as that was the price they sold for from 1996 - 2005. $10k+ per is not where I'm at.

 

Lest I be accused of not being a 'true comic art fan' but rather a Zeck Captain America fan, here's my comic art wants:

 

Aragones - Groo

Sal Buscema - Captain America covers

Cockrum, et al - X-Men 145-164

Bob Hall, et al - Avengers 213-225

Layton - Iron Man

Milgrom - West Coast Avengers

Neary - Captain America covers

Frank Robbins - Captain America

Shaw! - Captain Carrot

Sienkiewicz - Moon Knight, New Mutants

Totleben - Swamp Thing covers

Zeck - Captain America 258-289

 

There's lots more too, that's the 'off the top of my head' list. If I want to collect comic art but refuse to accept paying $500+ per piece for the above, I'm not buying anything at all.

 

The good news is that $30k will get you a very nice pile of stuff from my wants. Makes much more sense than a single KJ page...as long as you don't consider the fact that it's also a pretty nice downpayment on a house, even in overpriced Massachusetts!

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adamstrange

adamstrange

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Would comic book collectors be as discouraged if this were a thread about "What comic book could you get for 30K?" You don't see the comic book folks getting that upset about comic book prices, right? Why is that?

 

I collect fanzines and thes theme of prices escalating out of reach for comic collectors is pretty common going back to the 1970s. Many of the early collectors weren't the most stable individuals with high-paying jobs and it clearly frustrated them that people with money were able to buy books that they (the die-hard collectors) were no longer able to afford. I personally know of several people (with good middle class incomes) who have exited comics collecting altogether due to the price increases in the 90s and with the advent of CGC.

 

Many of the collectors that have stayed in, and this includes me, have adapted by becoming more and more focused and, from time to time, selling off various parts of the collection that are of lower priority.

 

It could be that the OA collectors are more narrowly focused to begin with so when dramatic price increase hit their particular sweet spot they don't see alternatives. But then I've never bought into the "uniqueness" of OA in quite the way that many of the OA collectors do. Yes, every item is unique, but there's enough similarity for me that if Page X is not available then I'm usually able to find Page Y that works just as well. Or I'm able to find a piece by another artist that I admire as much or more than the person who's prices have escalated. I love Ditko Spidey, but at this point I'm pretty sure I'll find a satisfactory alternative to a nice 30k Spidey fight page. Just my 2c

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heartened

heartened

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Would comic book collectors be as discouraged if this were a thread about "What comic book could you get for 30K?" You don't see the comic book folks getting that upset about comic book prices, right? Why is that?

 

I collect fanzines and thes theme of prices escalating out of reach for comic collectors is pretty common going back to the 1970s. Many of the early collectors weren't the most stable individuals with high-paying jobs and it clearly frustrated them that people with money were able to buy books that they (the die-hard collectors) were no longer able to afford. I personally know of several people (with good middle class incomes) who have exited comics collecting altogether due to the price increases in the 90s and with the advent of CGC.

 

Many of the collectors that have stayed in, and this includes me, have adapted by becoming more and more focused and, from time to time, selling off various parts of the collection that are of lower priority.

 

It could be that the OA collectors are more narrowly focused to begin with so when dramatic price increase hit their particular sweet spot they don't see alternatives. But then I've never bought into the "uniqueness" of OA in quite the way that many of the OA collectors do. Yes, every item is unique, but there's enough similarity for me that if Page X is not available then I'm usually able to find Page Y that works just as well. Or I'm able to find a piece by another artist that I admire as much or more than the person who's prices have escalated. I love Ditko Spidey, but at this point I'm pretty sure I'll find a satisfactory alternative to a nice 30k Spidey fight page. Just my 2c

 

This last paragraph is quite insightfull.

 

Hari

 

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Nexus

Nexus

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And this is why as the Kirby FF/Ditko ASM market rises, twice up IM Heck pages will start to become more in demand as will Thor and Cap pages...

 

Similarly, do you think there will be any ripple effect from the KJ auction to other Alan Moore-related OA? I've been hearing some pretty krazy numbers being bandied about lately for WATCHMEN and V pages...

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clemso

clemso

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I remember when Colletta, Heck & Rossos were the poor mans Kirby.

Kirby art inked by those guys usually went for a lot less, and i'm sure thats not the case now, but would they still be considered undervalued? Reinman seem to get away with it because of the key early books he worked on and I guess nostalgia plays a part either way.

 

Clem...

 

 

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delekkerste

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What goes for under $300 now SUCKS (IMO) to own. It's either just plain bad art (IMO again) or from books/artists of a recent vintage, stuff I'm just not collecting/reading or even browsing. Truly the 'under $300' art of today is of no interest to me...to buy/own. I like looking at dealer sites and collector's galleries of all sorts of art, but I don't need the actual art.

 

At the risk of sounding like an OA snob, I have to agree with you, Michael. There is no shortage of OA under $300 that one can collect and, if you enjoy it, more power to you. I have some pieces that would fall into that price category, and they are mostly sketches, commissions, common pages (e.g., Buscema Conan-related pages, of which there are thousands in existence), modern junk and 2nd and 3rd-tier quirky stuff that I like but most people wouldn't give a second thought to (most of which would not be liquid at all if I ever wanted to sell).

 

If my entire collection consisted of these kinds of pieces, though, I would probably not be an OA collector. I am a fan of the comic book medium in general and,.if I had a limited budget, I would rather collect the actual books than sub-$300 OA and maybe supplement my collection with a sketch or commission here and there. You can still get some pretty nice books with that kind of budget, but there's not a lot of real quality art that you can buy at that price point, which is a shame. :sorry:

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Jesusjon

Jesusjon

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What goes for under $300 now SUCKS (IMO) to own. It's either just plain bad art (IMO again) or from books/artists of a recent vintage, stuff I'm just not collecting/reading or even browsing.

 

While I don't disagree that, in 95% of cases, this is true (and, btw, 95% of tv shows and movies suck too) there are still some pages from modern books worth looking into.

 

We're living in an age of creator owned properties, where new series are being launched all the time. While it might not be your specific taste, I would never discourage someone who was interested in DMZ, Ex Machina, Transmet, Fables, Scalped, American Virgin, 100 Bullets, Y the Last Man etc. etc. to reject any and all of that art because it's modern and cheap and therefore sucks.

 

Some of the greatest creativity in comics lays outside the superhero genre, and Hollywood is all over anything and everything Vertigo-like or indys with mainstream sensibilities in comics. Purely economically, that $200 Crossing Midnight page might someday be $2000 after the theoretical hit film comes out.

 

So, (general advice) back to the old axiom -- buy what you like and what you can afford. (in tandem) Don't buy $300 pages if you don't like the art or story just cause it's a cheap page you can afford.

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Nexus

Nexus

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We're living in an age of creator owned properties, where new series are being launched all the time. While it might not be your specific taste, I would never discourage someone who was interested in DMZ, Ex Machina, Transmet, Fables, Scalped, American Virgin, 100 Bullets, Y the Last Man etc. etc. to reject any and all of that art because it's modern and cheap and therefore sucks.

 

As someone who reads most of these titles, I agree totally. These are the titles that will advance comics as a medium, imho. Mainstream superhero stuff is just too weighed down by continuity, too valuable as properties to their parent companies, and for the most part, reads like the "same ol', same ol'" every month.

 

Some of the greatest creativity in comics lays outside the superhero genre, and Hollywood is all over anything and everything Vertigo-like or indys with mainstream sensibilities in comics. Purely economically, that $200 Crossing Midnight page might someday be $2000 after the theoretical hit film comes out.

 

Yup. A common question: "What will OA collectors of 2027 wish they had a time machine to buy at present day prices?". My money would be on the creator-owned stuff that just sells and sells in tpb format. Like SANDMAN (which is already heavily collected), FABLES, Y...just check the monthly list from Diamond of best-selling graphic novels/tpbs. Maybe they won't ever reach the status of a WATCHMEN or V, but still more likely to hold their value than your standard superhero page.

 

So, (general advice) back to the old axiom -- buy what you like and what you can afford. (in tandem) Don't buy $300 pages if you don't like the art or story just cause it's a cheap page you can afford.

 

Well, if you're into modern creator-owned titles, you're in luck. If not...$300 is not going to get you much. I remember when a prominent board member announced a couple of years ago that he would be migrating from comics to OA (I remember this because this was around the time I was starting to collect and was interested in all the advice he was getting). I believe his era was the Bronze Age. It wasn't long before he went back to comics. He's probably happy with his decision and I don't blame him for turning back.

 

 

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Jesusjon

Jesusjon

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Agreed. If your niche is the gold, silver, or bronze age, or, only the "gems" of the modern age (Watchmen, DKR, KJ, V, etc. etc.), AND you are new to the hobby without a lot of cash to lay out, you will undoubtedly be consistently frustrated by comic art collecting. It's a shame, but so are coin, stamp, or car collectors who are only interested in the most sought after collectibles of their hobby.

 

Bottom line (for me, and I've thought about this a lot) is if your hobby is more frustrating than relaxing, more taxing than fun, and you have too much invested (emotionally) then it's time to take a step back and find a way for that hobby to be fun, or not be in it at all.

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cbac

cbac

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Like many, spending 30k on one piece would be insane for my budget, and I think I'd get far less enjoyment out of it (it's probably a lot more than my entire collection cost me).

 

As a collector I genuinely enjoy looking through my collection and noticing things I hadn't seen before. However I do limit my purchase prices with rough sanity check of being able to get back what I put in and keeping the total dollar value per piece low.

 

I used the buy what I like model when I first bought art at a show in the early 90's, buying a couple of pages from the "fringe" Sandman series and a couple of Alan Davis pages (popular but just not that in demand compared to others such as Jim Lee).

 

Looking back these were good purchases I am happy with to this day, and, I agree with Felix, that the creator owned titles (Y, Invincible, Ex Machina, Walking Dead etc) should have longevity, so I generally buy modern, as I did then, but just fill in older gaps when I am lucky enough.

 

I do remember seeing a 300+ (?) quid X-Men Jim Lee page, I think DPS and thinking it was awfully expensive at the 90s show :)

 

Also sometimes prices rise and fall, while this stuff is going up generally sometimes more supply arrives, and market forces or manipulation that raised things stops, people also stop paying inflated prices on occasion. People charge what they can get, it's a capitalist system, and prices sometimes seen online, especially for newer stuff can be less direct from the artist or at a con.

 

Though the best always has a premium, and the spread between high and low end can expand regardless.

 

Cheers,

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