BREAKING NEWS! Batman #1 CGC 9.0 sells for $300,000!!!

[Aman619]

" I would go to the matt for it!"

 

unintentional, Im sure, but I love it!

[sacentaur]

[MrBedrock]

That is why I believe people that have money to burn on collectibles are not really collectors.

 

 

Maybe they collect money.

[lou_fine]

Quasi restoration work aside,,,,,,it would be interesting to see if this was a true cash deal, a trade deal, or some combination of both.

 

Needless to say, this would be critical as to how this deal is viewed in the end.

[MrBedrock]

One way that Heritage, C-Link and other auction houses are able to facilitate a deal like this is to use future consignment dollars from the buyer against a present "sale". On the surface some would see that as a trade, but in fact it is considered a sale by the houses and probably by the tax-man. How would you view it? I still would have to consider it a sale, even though actual dollars aren't changing hands.

[esquirecomics]

One way that Heritage, C-Link and other auction houses are able to facilitate a deal like this is to use future consignment dollars from the buyer against a present "sale". On the surface some would see that as a trade, but in fact it is considered a sale by the houses and probably by the tax-man. How would you view it? I still would have to consider it a sale, even though actual dollars aren't changing hands.

 

That's interesting Richard. Does this mean that the buyer would pledge "X" $ future consignments to the auction house thereby guaranteeing a certain amount of funds coming in at a later date (whether by the buyer's or seller's fees and/or the principal)? Am I understanding that correctly?

[esquirecomics]

Quasi restoration work aside,,,,,,it would be interesting to see if this was a true cash deal, a trade deal, or some combination of both.

 

Needless to say, this would be critical as to how this deal is viewed in the end.

 

Indeed. It would change a great deal from a market perspective depending upon the actual circumstances.

[Crowzilla]

Good to see you here Eric and thanks for your input.

I'm with you - we might never see an untouched 9.4 Bat #1, a rare bird indeed and the price/competition would be very strong for it.

[MrBedrock]

One way that Heritage, C-Link and other auction houses are able to facilitate a deal like this is to use future consignment dollars from the buyer against a present "sale". On the surface some would see that as a trade, but in fact it is considered a sale by the houses and probably by the tax-man. How would you view it? I still would have to consider it a sale, even though actual dollars aren't changing hands.

 

That's interesting Richard. Does this mean that the buyer would pledge "X" $ future consignments to the auction house thereby guaranteeing a certain amount of funds coming in at a later date (whether by the buyer's or seller's fees and/or the principal)? Am I understanding that correctly?

 

In much the same way that the houses offer a cash advance for consignments, they can offer up inventory. For instance, say someone were to approach C-Link with $100,000 worth of comics. They generally offer an advance in the neighborhood of 80% fmv as long as the consignor agrees to set realistic reserves (or better yet, no reserves). At the time of the auction the balance is made up one way or the other. C-Link offers this interest free, Heritage generally charges interest (unless you are very good at negotiating or have something that is equitable for them in their buyer's/seller's fee structure). Each of the auction houses use some variation of this to entice quality consignments their way. One of the big obstacles to consigning is the large amount of time between placing something in an auction and actually getting paid.

It makes sense that a variation of this could be used for a consignor to purchase a book. The final sale price of the consignor's items would ultimately be used to pay for the original book, so in essence, money would be changing hands, just on paper (no pun intended).

[esquirecomics]

One way that Heritage, C-Link and other auction houses are able to facilitate a deal like this is to use future consignment dollars from the buyer against a present "sale". On the surface some would see that as a trade, but in fact it is considered a sale by the houses and probably by the tax-man. How would you view it? I still would have to consider it a sale, even though actual dollars aren't changing hands.

 

That's interesting Richard. Does this mean that the buyer would pledge "X" $ future consignments to the auction house thereby guaranteeing a certain amount of funds coming in at a later date (whether by the buyer's or seller's fees and/or the principal)? Am I understanding that correctly?

 

In much the same way that the houses offer a cash advance for consignments, they can offer up inventory. For instance, say someone were to approach C-Link with $100,000 worth of comics. They generally offer an advance in the neighborhood of 80% fmv as long as the consignor agrees to set realistic reserves (or better yet, no reserves). At the time of the auction the balance is made up one way or the other. C-Link offers this interest free, Heritage generally charges interest (unless you are very good at negotiating or have something that is equitable for them in their buyer's/seller's fee structure). Each of the auction houses use some variation of this to entice quality consignments their way. One of the big obstacles to consigning is the large amount of time between placing something in an auction and actually getting paid.

It makes sense that a variation of this could be used for a consignor to purchase a book. The final sale price of the consignor's items would ultimately be used to pay for the original book, so in essence, money would be changing hands, just on paper (no pun intended).

 

Thanks for the elaboration Richard. I am familiar with variations of the above. It can definitely get messy from a tax perspective (or at least the IRS's perspective). There are certainly numerous variations that can be implemented.

 

Assuming something like this is done, i.e., a transaction is not a straight cash deal, how does everyone feel about publicizing the final amount without specifying there was a trade or other arrangement involved? I am not suggesting this is what was done with the Bat #1 as I have absolutely no knowledge of that specific transaction, but I certainly do know of some dealers/sellers manipulating a "sales" price in one manner or the other.

 

My current policy is to indicate only straight cash sales or otherwise disclose that the final amount was part of a cash/trade deal.

[MrBedrock]

One way that Heritage, C-Link and other auction houses are able to facilitate a deal like this is to use future consignment dollars from the buyer against a present "sale". On the surface some would see that as a trade, but in fact it is considered a sale by the houses and probably by the tax-man. How would you view it? I still would have to consider it a sale, even though actual dollars aren't changing hands.

 

That's interesting Richard. Does this mean that the buyer would pledge "X" $ future consignments to the auction house thereby guaranteeing a certain amount of funds coming in at a later date (whether by the buyer's or seller's fees and/or the principal)? Am I understanding that correctly?

 

In much the same way that the houses offer a cash advance for consignments, they can offer up inventory. For instance, say someone were to approach C-Link with $100,000 worth of comics. They generally offer an advance in the neighborhood of 80% fmv as long as the consignor agrees to set realistic reserves (or better yet, no reserves). At the time of the auction the balance is made up one way or the other. C-Link offers this interest free, Heritage generally charges interest (unless you are very good at negotiating or have something that is equitable for them in their buyer's/seller's fee structure). Each of the auction houses use some variation of this to entice quality consignments their way. One of the big obstacles to consigning is the large amount of time between placing something in an auction and actually getting paid.

It makes sense that a variation of this could be used for a consignor to purchase a book. The final sale price of the consignor's items would ultimately be used to pay for the original book, so in essence, money would be changing hands, just on paper (no pun intended).

 

Thanks for the elaboration Richard. I am familiar with variations of the above. It can definitely get messy from a tax perspective (or at least the IRS's perspective). There are certainly numerous variations that can be implemented.

 

Assuming something like this is done, i.e., a transaction is not a straight cash deal, how does everyone feel about publicizing the final amount without specifying there was a trade or other arrangement involved? I am not suggesting this is what was done with the Bat #1 as I have absolutely no knowledge of that specific transaction, but I certainly do know of some dealers/sellers manipulating a "sales" price in one manner or the other.

 

My current policy is to indicate only straight cash sales or otherwise disclose that the final amount was part of a cash/trade deal.

As far as I am concerned, an advance against future sales is a cash sale. If books were changing hands with no regard to their sale price then that is something different. But using an advance against sales is no different than getting a loan against your books future sale value, which is no different than getting a home equity loan, or frankly, any loan from the bank. A loan of any type is just a cash advance against future payments.

[1koko]

Ladies and Gentlemen. I propose another point of view. What if the buyer was an international collector who now can afford this book because of the decline of the US doller. 3-4 years ago this book would have cost me $400,000 Canadian at this price but about 2 weeks ago would have run me "only"$270,000 or so. That my friends is a windfall rarely seen in this day and age. If the US doller would ever return to it's former glory this buyer could flip the book for a "loss" and not lose a cent.

 

R.

 

 

 

Why do you still use a DD avatar

 

Why not

[G.A.tor]

Hi, I just saw this headline and I am shocked. Obviously, the buyer (if the sale is indeed accurately reported) was not well informed. It is my understanding the previous owner (DK) had personally graded the book a VF/VF- and it did have some writing on it when he sold it. Begs the question , why did CGC give it such a good grade and with a blue label? No question in my mind the book was played with.

If a 9.4 Batman #1 ever comes up for sale (and it is all original -no pressing) I would go to the matt for it. IMO a 9.4 Batman is worth twice as much as Action 1 in 6.5. First app of Joker (greatest villian of all time) and Catwoman (1st villainess in comics). It is a killer book and IMO a great investment, esp in the 4.0-8.0 range. People like to talk it down -I never undersood that. A Bat #1 (9.4) is likely a one of a kind comic whereas Action 1 in 6.5 is hardly that.

Time will tell but I strongly believe the US economy is headed for a difficult 2008 and beyond -will be very interesting to see how this moves the comic hobby.

 

does this mean if I find a 9.4 Batman 1 (of course, to me, 9.0, 9.4, etc... it is just a number over 9.0, so I likely couldn't tell the diff!), you will trade me your Action 1 6.5 for it

 

I hear what you are saying, so it is safe to "assume" you did not purchase the Comic Link Bat 1 (was in the back of my mind)...

 

thanks for dropping by and don't forget me on your other Tec 29

rick

[MutantKeys]

Ladies and Gentlemen. I propose another point of view. What if the buyer was an international collector who now can afford this book because of the decline of the US doller. 3-4 years ago this book would have cost me $400,000 Canadian at this price but about 2 weeks ago would have run me "only"$270,000 or so. That my friends is a windfall rarely seen in this day and age. If the US doller would ever return to it's former glory this buyer could flip the book for a "loss" and not lose a cent.

 

R.

 

 

 

Why do you still use a DD avatar

 

Why not

You collect GA

[G.A.tor]

Ladies and Gentlemen. I propose another point of view. What if the buyer was an international collector who now can afford this book because of the decline of the US doller. 3-4 years ago this book would have cost me $400,000 Canadian at this price but about 2 weeks ago would have run me "only"$270,000 or so. That my friends is a windfall rarely seen in this day and age. If the US doller would ever return to it's former glory this buyer could flip the book for a "loss" and not lose a cent.

 

R.

 

 

 

Why do you still use a DD avatar

 

Why not

You collect GA

so do I, but I don't have a GA avatar

[MutantKeys]

Hi, I just saw this headline and I am shocked. Obviously, the buyer (if the sale is indeed accurately reported) was not well informed. It is my understanding the previous owner (DK) had personally graded the book a VF/VF- and it did have some writing on it when he sold it. Begs the question , why did CGC give it such a good grade and with a blue label? No question in my mind the book was played with.

If a 9.4 Batman #1 ever comes up for sale (and it is all original -no pressing) I would go to the matt for it. IMO a 9.4 Batman is worth twice as much as Action 1 in 6.5. First app of Joker (greatest villian of all time) and Catwoman (1st villainess in comics). It is a killer book and IMO a great investment, esp in the 4.0-8.0 range. People like to talk it down -I never undersood that. A Bat #1 (9.4) is likely a one of a kind comic whereas Action 1 in 6.5 is hardly that.

Time will tell but I strongly believe the US economy is headed for a difficult 2008 and beyond -will be very interesting to see how this moves the comic hobby.

 

does this mean if I find a 9.4 Batman 1 (of course, to me, 9.0, 9.4, etc... it is just a number over 9.0, so I likely couldn't tell the diff!), you will trade me your Action 1 6.5 for it

 

I hear what you are saying, so it is safe to "assume" you did not purchase the Comic Link Bat 1 (was in the back of my mind)...

 

thanks for dropping by and don't forget me on your other Tec 29

rick

Hey Rick, who is this?

[G.A.tor]

Hi, I just saw this headline and I am shocked. Obviously, the buyer (if the sale is indeed accurately reported) was not well informed. It is my understanding the previous owner (DK) had personally graded the book a VF/VF- and it did have some writing on it when he sold it. Begs the question , why did CGC give it such a good grade and with a blue label? No question in my mind the book was played with.

If a 9.4 Batman #1 ever comes up for sale (and it is all original -no pressing) I would go to the matt for it. IMO a 9.4 Batman is worth twice as much as Action 1 in 6.5. First app of Joker (greatest villian of all time) and Catwoman (1st villainess in comics). It is a killer book and IMO a great investment, esp in the 4.0-8.0 range. People like to talk it down -I never undersood that. A Bat #1 (9.4) is likely a one of a kind comic whereas Action 1 in 6.5 is hardly that.

Time will tell but I strongly believe the US economy is headed for a difficult 2008 and beyond -will be very interesting to see how this moves the comic hobby.

 

does this mean if I find a 9.4 Batman 1 (of course, to me, 9.0, 9.4, etc... it is just a number over 9.0, so I likely couldn't tell the diff!), you will trade me your Action 1 6.5 for it

 

I hear what you are saying, so it is safe to "assume" you did not purchase the Comic Link Bat 1 (was in the back of my mind)...

 

thanks for dropping by and don't forget me on your other Tec 29

rick

Hey Rick, who is this?

I am not sure if he ever introduced himself, but I don't believe he is keeping it a secret, either?... his initials are ER, most can figure out from there...

gator

[MutantKeys]

:thumbsup:

 

I lost my password to his site and he never emailed me back

[G.A.tor]

:thumbsup:

 

I lost my password to his site and he never emailed me back

create a new one!

for anyone that wants to check it out:

http://www.triksr4kids.com/?id=home

gator

 

[de-mented-migration]

 

does this mean if I find a 9.4 Batman 1 (of course, to me, 9.0, 9.4, etc... it is just a number over 9.0, so I likely couldn't tell the diff!), you will trade me your Action 1 6.5 for it

 

I hear what you are saying, so it is safe to "assume" you did not purchase the Comic Link Bat 1 (was in the back of my mind)...

 

thanks for dropping by and don't forget me on your other Tec 29

rick

 

 

Hi rick, Of course. I would make that trade in a heartbeat. No doubt in my mind that I can find/buy another Action 1 in above Fine +. A Batman #1 in 9.4 (100%) original would be a treasure. I would have been interested CL's Batman 1 9.0 but I know the history. Nuff' Said.

 

Ps. did you see the 'Tec 29 on ebay?!!