Storing a CGC Comic Book In A Vacuum Sealed Bag?

[fantastic_four]

Don't you think they should be more forthright about the fact that your slabbed books are in danger of aging *faster* inside the slab if you don't re-slab every 7 years or so?

 

They're not responsible for entropy...it's the nature of the universe. They warn you of it on the back of the slab label, so I'm sure they believe they're already being forthright. As long as you store your books well, you shouldn't have to change the paper every 7 years...they should last longer than that when stored correctly. The microchamber paper is to absorb as much acid release as it can, but it should be minimal if people store books as they should. That's what Tracey Heft kept trying to emphasize when he was posting here...with a stable environment, comics should last a long, long time.

 

 

The real question you're asking is...should they be more forthright in warning people that if they think their books haven't been stored well that they need to do a re-holder? That might end up being something they end up promoting in 5, 10, or 15 years, who knows.

[fantastic_four]

bump

[namisgr]

Got to read this thread from the recent bump. As a scientist, I can weigh in about vaccuum storage. If it were genuinely possible to store books in a true (complete) vaccuum, then it would be an excellent preservation approach. This is because in a vaccuum THERE ARE NO GASES OR LIQUIDS. In other words, books stored in a complete, true vaccuum (in which there is no air pressure) would contain no potentially damaging gases to off-gas, and would be at 0% humidity.

 

In reality, it is not possible to create a true vaccuum for comic storage, but rather a low pressure environment. A container that would allow periodic drawing off of the minute amounts of gas and water being extruded from the paper should provide outstanding protection. One could place mylar-bagged comics in a large glass container that has a spout hooked to a vaccuum pump that would continually maintain an ultra-low pressure near-complete vaccuum. Unfortunately, in an absolute vaccuum there would be some compression of the paper as the air pressure reached zero, providing a "pressing" effect on the books.

 

Who wants to be first to try the Dr. Namisgr method?

[Rune]

Preservation of comic books is indeed a difficult subject, and it seems that no one has truly convincing arguments, although the consensus seems to be that relative humidity about 35 - 50 % is preferable and temperatures between 50 and 65 degrees Fahrenheit (=10 to 18 degrees Celsius), although the temperature should be held constant and not fluctuate between 50 and 65 degrees.

 

Sources:

http://www.nedcc.org/resources/leaflets/2The_Environment/01BasicGuidelines.php

 

http://www.stampsrart.com/temperature-humidity-preservation-of-stamps-philately-philatelics.html (see the graph depicting relationship between humidity and temperature).

 

http://dlis.dos.state.fl.us/archives/preservation/books/index.cfm

 

Excerpt: "Cool and dry conditions are the best for books, slowing the acidic destruction of fibers and discouraging mold growth. The optimal temperature for books is 65° Fahrenheit with a relative humidity of 40%. This may be hard to achieve in hot Florida summers. Stability is most important. A good rule of thumb is, if you are hot and sticky, your books are, too".

 

And according to E. Gerber, one of the leading manufacturers of Mylar, it seems that airtight encapsulation is preferred:

 

"Isn't it bad to completely seal off the comics and make them airtight?

 

The reality is that an airtight environment is the proper environment and by far the best one for preservation. By keeping out the oxygen, moisture and insects, and by keeping the temperature reasonably low, you can provide an environment in which your comics will become "Golden."

 

For example, go to any library that has older volumes. Open any book and figure out why the pages are always browner at the edges and get lighter and whiter as you move towards the middle of the page. The inside of that book has not been in contact with any moisture, fresh re-circulating oxygen or light".

 

Source: http://www.egerber.com/aboutpreservation2.asp

 

Well, actually I tried to settle for a solution in-between, since I have placed my CGC books in a sealed high-quality 200-gauge super-clear polypropylene bag that may not be 100% air-tight, but using two nearly fully closed bags (the inner Barex bag and the 200-gauge polypropylene sealed bag for the CGC holder) then the gasses are not totally confined to the book, and effects of oxygen influx and humidity should be absolutely minimal (humidity is about 40% in my storage room). So controlling the temperature seems to be my main concern.

 

The 200-gauge super-clear polypropylene CGC holder bags can be found at Incognito Comics in England (they get these bags produced especially for their store) - and should these bags be completely airtight when sealed, then such bags still allow for more volume to dissipate harmful gasses than if a book is totally confined in air-tight Mylar bag.

 

But maybe all these precautions are unnecessary, the American chemist Max Rodel investigated a few of his CGC books and tested these for water and air influx, he concluded:

 

"CGC's holders are both air-tight and water-tight. This is because the CGC "holder" is actually two holders, one inside the other. The outer holder that you actually touch is merely a hard protective shell. The comic book inside actually is completely sealed within an inner holder that is made from a clear, softer, flexible kind of plastic. This inner holder is independent from the hard, protective outer shell. The inner holder is sealed air- and water-tight on all four sides. So CGC'd books are completely protected from all moisture and oxygen, forever!

The CGC label is not sealed within the inner holder, but free-floats inside the outer shell. If you crack open the outer shell, the label can fall out. The outer shell is not air-tight, so one minor drawback of CGC's system is that, in the unfortunate event of flood or any water immersion, the comic book itself would be protected but the label would get wet. (CGC's competitor, PGX, has solved this potential problem by sealing the label inside the inner holder with the comic. This permanently attaches the label it to the comic book and, in my opinion, is a better system.

Perhaps you knew all this already, but I thought I would pass on things I've learned by breaking comics out of their holders to see how they were put together".

 

Well, I will let you know how everything turns out in 50 years :-)

 

Furthermore, I guess the famous words from Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy should be repeated: "DON'T PANIC" – especially since I have never read about ruined CGC books after a hot summer or high humidity. Actually one of my 9.8 WP books was kept in an attic for 40 years with little or no temperature control - and one Batman #1 with snow-like White Pages (from about year 1940) was hidden in a desk for a similar time without protection, so comics do not necessarily turn brittle with rusty staples overnight...

 

And the original owner of many CGC graded 9.8 books with pure White Pages wrote (after 40 years of storing the books): "I never really paid much attention to the type of plastic storage bags I used to bag my comics. I just used the bags available from by the local comics dealer -- I guess they turned out to be OK!”

 

So the key issue may not be the mylar bags or the carbon-enriched boards, but simply limited oxygen and humidity exposure by bagging the books, relatively cool and constant temperature and no exposure to light.

 

BTW, storing CGC books flat should also be optimal:

 

"Just where exactly the belief originated that comic books are subject to less stress when stored upright and will inevitably show spine rolling if kept flat is hard to tell, but in all probability this point of view goes back to the era of pre-conservation consciousness when comic books were kept in the loose stacks mentioned at the outset. In such circumstances (for instance with large piles or comics of different sizes and weight) the fact that the spine side is thicker (accentuated by the two staples used to hold the comic book together) can create a lopsided U which will eventually roll the individual comics into the same shape (hence the term "spine rolling"). There is, however, ample and informed information available which dispels the myth of the absolute imperative for vertical storage.

The Northeast Document Conservation Center (a non-profit regional conservation center in the United States, founded in 1973 and counting amongst its clients the Boston Public Library and Harvard University) advised that although vertical storage in office files or in upright flip-top archival document storage boxes is acceptable for legal-sized or smaller documents, any objects larger than 15" x 9" should be stored flat. This is due to the pull forces which documents stored in an upright position are subject to, and it is safe to assume that what is best practice for larger size documents works out well for comic books as well."

 

Source: http://www.panelology.info/StoringComics.html

[Kingcom99]

[TheLiamSturgess]

 

[Define999]

Someone is asking about how long microchamber lasts before needing replacement? I got the answer from the horses mouth... answer below from a response I gave on another thread...

 

Awesome post by the way! My two cents, if you really want a backing board or a comic box that acts like microchamber? Get one from the source.....

 

http://www.conservationresources.com/Main/section_11/section11_14.htm

 

Expensive but the real deal....

 

I use Egerber boards and Egerber mylars for all my books. 5 sheets of microchamber interleaved in each book to deal with acidity. Someone earlier discussed the longevity of microchamber paper and how 7 years was conservative. Well I spoke with a gentlemen that was involved in the testing and creation of conservation resources microchamber paper. I talked to him when I placed my last order with CRI. I told him what CGC said about the 7 years inert thing. He laughed, and told me that microchamber paper was designed to protect valuable ephemera collections in the most polluted environments in the US... like the library's in our biggest cities. ie: New York, Washington DC etc.....

 

He told me the amount of pollutants and acids they pushed thru these papers during testing was staggering, and that realistically it could be 50 years before a sheet loses its acid nuetralization qualities.... If he wanted to sell paper he could have told me somthing different, so I tend to believe him. Real nice guy, and passionate about conservation. He told me that CRI loves comic collectors, they are quirky and different from the usual conversations they have with library archivest's.

 

One thing I remember him saying was that if you are not going to give a paper a deacidification bath which actually leaves a akaline buffer in the paper to be conserved. Next best thing is to make sure your enclosures are not contributing to the problem first. So no acidic woods, papers or plastics... and then make sure the paper is enclosed with microchamber for acid nuetralization from the paper itself. after that comes dark, stable, cool and non-humid environment etc.....

 

I wish I had recorded my conversation with the guy... someone should do an interview with people in the know at CRI. Oh, one other thing about microchamber technology is that it can be turned into almost anything... if you really want to get anal.... paint the inside of your comic enclosure with microchamber emulsion.

 

from the site....

MicroChamber Emulsion

MicroChamber Emulsion is designed to be applied to exhibit cases and display units, drawers, shelves and cabinet surfaces, and for use inside packing and shipping crates to protect artworks and valuable historic artifacts. Surfaces treated with new MicroChamber Emulsion protect against airborne pollutants from both indoor and outdoor sources, the cumulative by-products of deterioration, and harmful substances which migrate from materials such as wood. MicroChamber Emulsion is the only surface treatment which can provides preventative conservation protection in rooms which house collections, in conservation labs, photographic darkrooms, exhibition galleries, offices and homes. It is indicated in locations surrounding laser printers and photocopiers, and internal environments where high levels of ozone, peroxides and other airborne pollutants exist. MicroChamber Emulsion may be applied to paper, board, cloth, canvas, wood, metal, glass, plaster, painted or unpainted drywall, foam, plastic and to most common structural substrates. MicroChamber Emulsion will be effective applied in areas open to environmental air exchange or in closed storage, shipping and exhibition cases. Dries to an effective preventative conservation surface within eight hours. Contains activated carbon in an aqueous dispersion with calcium carbonate and acrylic polymer. pH 8.0, total solids 37.4% (± 1%). Patented. 750 ml. Item MCE-750.

 

link here.....

http://www.conservationresources.com/Main/S%20CATALOG/MicroChamber.htm

[mschmidt]

Very interesting - thanks for posting :thumbsup:

[solm4st3r]

Finally I have found a way to protect my copy of X-Force 1!

[sterlingcomics]

Good information...I still ponder microchamber effectiveness from time to time and frankly like this answer as it's wallet saving!