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I'm stunned...

Started by AlexH,

195 posts in this topic

Darthdiesel

Darthdiesel

Posted
Posted
...incentives to make retailers more money...

 

hmmmm...retailers actually trying to make more money. Wow, what a concept, people in the for profit sector trying to make money. I just cannot imagine what they are thinking.

 

I think they should work at improving customer service, get more new readers in the door and continue to expand their product selection. Counting on this kind of pie-in-the-sky incentive crapola to pay the bills long-term will drive a lot of them out of business.

 

DC is trying to print money using limited edition, manufactured collectibles, and that scam never works for very long....

 

 

I totally agree with you that they should work on customer service. You have pointed out that in this day and age with so many distractions to compete, it is only up to us comic reading parents and motivational retilers to be able to actually turn the kids' heads into comics (I'm giving away the Spidey mini book and a DC book that lighthouse brought up in a thread as giveaways on Halloween to the little guys that come by...). DC may be on their last leg anyway even with their exclusive contracts and other stunts they are trying (that distribution debacle vs. Bulldog) to be like the other Big Boy, but they may live a little longer. This RRP phenomena should be looked at as a separate animal IMO...

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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Joe, it dips in price and then what - only the speculators are supposedly spending this much on these books...so they are out of the hobby - how does that affect the back issue market

 

Hype is driving the current market, and the more of these "insane sales" that can be artifically produced, the more "investment" exposure the industry gets. It's no secret that collectors do not drive prices into the stratosphere, as every single "comic book boom" has been driven by red-hot hype, insane price fluctuations, and a mass influx of noob buyers with more money than sense.

 

The key to sustaining these artificial price levels (from GA to Modern) is to convince buyers to sit on their comics indefinitely and wait for the profits to pour in. As long as buyers do this, everything is smooth, but (as in other "corrections") it never lasts for long. Many pop back on to sell their high-priced gems, only to find the market will only support a fraction of the money they spent. This happened with Independants, it happened with Valiants, and it is currently happening with many CGC comics.

 

Now once this really gets into high gear (est 2004 - once a decade), you would not believe the amount of "current collectors" who will turn tail and run. Heat drives demand in the comics biz, and it was all there to see in the mid-90's. A mass exodus of collectors, stores closing, NM+ issues to grab for Guide or under (ask Greggy), and where were the legions of "collectors"? All manner of excuses can be laid down for "why I didn't buy hard in 1995-97", but the fact remains that deflated values translated into comics not being cool anymore.

 

It's no fun to be a BSD in a hobby that the general public has written off as DOA. You buy a nice CGC 9.8 copy now and it's all ooohs and aaaaahs, but I highly doubt greggy got the same press when he bought those exact same issues in the mid-90's. People don't like to admit that hype drives them back to comics, or that the loss of heat drives them away. Human beings are largely conformist and we like being where the action is, and shy away when prices fall and it's no longer viewed as cool to pay thousands for a funny book.

 

I guarantee that when the Reaper comes calling for this decade's "correction", we'll see a marked decline in this forum's membership. Then in 10 years, something will come around to hype the market up again, and the same guys will trot back in with their various excuses of why they never invested heavy in the downswing.

 

I can hardly wait.

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Darthdiesel

Darthdiesel

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Joe - while your post makes a lot of sense and is grounded in some valid past occurrences, my feeling is that if you were fool enough to buy in and not insure yourself against the possibility of the crash (ie. having to close up shops, ruin your credit by using funds that didn't exist, etc.) then that is a life lesson learned. And if you leave the collecting just because values have dipped then you were never a "true collector" anyway. Yeah I guess it can be challenging to one's pride to admit when you are investing your time in non productive, non-profit generating hobbies but there will always be some of us around that do things for the right reasons.

 

 

It is the task of the buyer to be informed of all aspects(benefits and pitfalls) of these sales of "over-hyped" books. It is the task of the retailer to make a profit and stay in business. As long as those are going on, the market won't be in trouble...

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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It is the task of the buyer to be informed of all aspects(benefits and pitfalls) of these sales of "over-hyped" books. It is the task of the retailer to make a profit and stay in business. As long as those are going on, the market won't be in trouble...

 

Exactly my point Darth, but we seem to disagree that spending thousands on a "hot off the presses" manufactured collectible means the buyer is "informed of all aspects(benefits and pitfalls) of these sales of "over-hyped" books".

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dadaist

dadaist

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Posted
They have no other purpose. That's what they do, that's all they do, and they won't stop until they've sucked the speculator market dry!

 

So how does the listing of an RRP retailer incentive that fetches insane premiums on eBay measure up to the large-scale vacuuming attempts that continue to occur when a brokerage/equities trader contacts you by phone to invest in stocks or equities? I find the latter a far greater scam, and the lure to invest on speculative principles the most deceptive of all get rich quick schemes.

 

If someone willingly strays away from conventional wisdom to plop down some money on a manufactured collectible, then I say all the power to them. But to lay blame on retailers who are letting free-enterprise, and fair market value attainment determine their ability to command a premium, while breathing words like "luring" in the same breath, just isn't right. If you want to save the weak-minded specs and hard working folks who throw away their retirement funds, from the backlash of market correction and downward trends, your time might be better spent warning those folks from the onslaught of the next Nortel, and let people who like to burn away their money snatch up all the remaining Batman 608 RRP's.

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Darthdiesel

Darthdiesel

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Posted
It is the task of the buyer to be informed of all aspects(benefits and pitfalls) of these sales of "over-hyped" books. It is the task of the retailer to make a profit and stay in business. As long as those are going on, the market won't be in trouble...

 

Exactly my point Darth, but we seem to disagree that spending thousands on a "hot off the presses" manufactured collectible means the buyer is "informed of all aspects(benefits and pitfalls) of these sales of "over-hyped" books".

 

 

Gotcha...not much you can do tho, let's say, when the buyer belongs to a forum like this one where all info and opinons from all angles are presented...let's invite the high bidder to this thread 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

BTW...notice how CGC Hall of Shamer poopshoot boy gives some props to this forum (among others) in the October article?

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duncan36

duncan36

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I can see both sides of it:

 

People like me who know what they like, what something is worth to them, and who buy Bronze and back, this type of stupid speculation doesnt effect me one bit. I'm not going to stop buying because of this and enthusiasts wont either.

 

On the other hand this type of buying shows that there is a certain person still out there willing to spend thousands on what they obviously think is a 'sure thing'. When this book drops in price which it will inevitably do, the people holding the hot potato will get burned, since they have no love of comics they will leave comic investing never to return. And beyond that is has a negative effect on comics, when this type of inevitable massive drop happens the man behind the curtain is reveleaded , and he looks a lot llke a drunk Mickey Rooney rather than musclebound Superman. 27_laughing.gif Even thickheaded types start thinking 'hmmm maybe Wizards motives are not gleaming clean, maybe I wont buy all 4 die-cut doodad copies of the latest Wolverine mini, maybe Marvel is making #1 issues every 10 issues just to make money gahhhh'.

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Darthdiesel

Darthdiesel

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When this book drops in price which it will inevitably do, the people holding the hot potato will get burned, since they have no love of comics they will leave comic investing never to return. This is without doubt bad for comicdom

 

Duncan - this is what I disagreed with and Joe helped put things in some perspective as to the why, but my basic question was how is the inevitable leaving of a speculator bad for the hobby. He should have been a non-factor in the first place. All the true collectors/non-specs are staying with their tried and true Golden - Bronze Age and not affected by the speculating on fresh off the shelf hot books. whether the specualtor gets burned (or not) should have no ultimate effect on the hobby (other than the pride factor of pursuing a hobby with no profit or decreased value for their time investment - point put forth by JC that I can see.)

 

So has the speculator tsunami left irreparable damage to the hobby and community in its wake? Not really as the real collectors are immune to the high priced antics and phenomena occurring, due to their focus on a steadier markt and genre.

 

If the big companies start catering their new work to the buying trend of the speculator (variant covers, RRP retailer incentives) etc., as long as they still offer regular books made available to Joe Public then the true collectors can stick to these, insure themselves from the oncoming crash and let the specs play in their high price follies for now?

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duncan36

duncan36

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Posted
When this book drops in price which it will inevitably do, the people holding the hot potato will get burned, since they have no love of comics they will leave comic investing never to return. This is without doubt bad for comicdom

 

Duncan - this is what I disagreed with and Joe helped put things in some perspective as to the why, but my basic question was how is the inevitable leaving of a speculator bad for the hobby. He should have been a non-factor in the first place. All the true collectors/non-specs are staying with their tried and true Golden - Bronze Age and not affected by the speculating on fresh off the shelf hot books. whether the specualtor gets burned (or not) should have no ultimate effect on the hobby (other than the pride factor of pursuing a hobby with no profit or decreased value for their time investment - point put forth by JC that I can see.)

 

So has the speculator tsunami left irreparable damage to the hobby and community in its wake? Not really as the real collectors are immune to the high priced antics and phenomena occurring, due to their focus on a steadier markt and genre.

 

If the big companies start catering their new work to the buying trend of the speculator (variant covers, RRP retailer incentives) etc., as long as they still offer regular books made available to Joe Public then the true collectors can stick to these, insure themselves from the oncoming crash and let the specs play in their high price follies for now?

 

Well after about the fourth edit 893frustrated.gif I think i've made a coherent point as to why it is bad for comicdom. You probably read an earlier edit, though we'll probably just have to agree to disagree. smile.gif I got a lot of the bad vibes I apparently still had in me from the mid-90's debacle out. Ahhhh therapy. sleeping.gif

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drbanner

drbanner

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BTW...notice how CGC Hall of Shamer poopshoot boy gives some props to this forum (among others) in the October article?

 

Link?

 

Regardless of what's happening to the price of comic books (past/present/future, slabbed, raw, manufactured or accidental), there has never been a medium so readily available to collectors to learn about the hobby of collecting gold/silver/bronze age comics books than these boards, so hopefully that's what you're referring to. There's lots of info to be learned here, and also lots of opportunity for the seasoned collectors to share their knowledge with the next generation of hobbyists.

 

Kudos again to CGC for providing the boards, and for promoting them through their advertisements in the various media! thumbsup2.gif

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Darthdiesel

Darthdiesel

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OK I see the point...though it can be disheartening, if folks don't buy into what Marvel and DC are doing then they'll stop and change directions. Right now, if they are going to where the money is at, they are just looking out for theri survival in the end. I'd be happier if they were around, despite their obvious tactics, pandering for big bucks, than if they stayed true to the collector, ended up going broke and closing shop (or selling out to rich Manga based buyer - Marvel MAngaverse, anyone? 27_laughing.gif ) confused-smiley-013.gif

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duncan36

duncan36

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OK I see the point...though it can be disheartening, if folks don't buy into what Marvel and DC are doing then they'll stop and change directions. Right now, if they are going to where the money is at, they are just looking out for theri survival in the end. I'd be happier if they were around, despite their obvious tactics, pandering for big bucks, than if they stayed true to the collector, ended up going broke and closing shop (or selling out to rich Manga based buyer - Marvel MAngaverse, anyone? 27_laughing.gif ) confused-smiley-013.gif

 

Thats the concering thing, that DC/Marvel because of lowered sales are so desperate to merely stay solvent that they'll start to mine any market to death(infinite #1's, alternate covers, gimmicks) once the mid 90's become a distant memory and thus basically save themselves short term but do more damage long term.

Everyone buy new comics! Even the ones where Henry Pym is covered in secretions. 27_laughing.gif

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