My two Action Comics from mega Con came back from CGC

[Sardo Numspar]

1) If you don't feel that you can detect resto you probably shouldn't be spending this kind of money on books. The cover is sealed to the pages and there's amateur reinforcement. That should be very easy to see with even a casual inspection. If you can't see that, you're better off sticking with slabbed books.

 

Actually, I think that the onus is on the dealer, who this buyer looked to for honest information, to detect and report the resto. It's the dealer who should have caught this and been able to discuss the book that he is selling in a knowledgeable manner. I don't blame the buyer, who clearly looked to the dealer to be a reputable and knowledgeable expert and source of information.

 

I never said the onus wasn't on the dealer. He should have caught it. But would you go dropping several hundred dollars on something because a complete stranger told you it was ok?

 

My point is, until you feel confident that you can detect resto on your own, you probably should stick with books you can have some certainty on. This may come as a shock, but some dealers knowingly sell restored books as unrestored... Yes, it's true. And some used car dealers sell damaged cars as undamaged. That's why people get them inspected before buying. Caveat emptor is an oft-quoted phrase for a reason.

 

I understand the phrase caveat emptor. I also understand the term fraudulent inducement. A dealer at a comic book convention should give accurate information about raw books he is selling. I agree with Comicdonna here - I dont believe the onus is on the uninformed buyer to be able to overcome a dealer's misrepresentations. The sale is not a test, and unfortuneately a buyer under these circumstances has no way of obtaining third party verification of the dealer's representations (CGC) before the deal is consumated. Bottom line is that sellers in this profession should make full disclosure of all issues, and they surely should not make factual misrepresentations about a GA book in order to induce the buyer into paying an amount which an unrestored book calls for,

[buttock]

1) If you don't feel that you can detect resto you probably shouldn't be spending this kind of money on books. The cover is sealed to the pages and there's amateur reinforcement. That should be very easy to see with even a casual inspection. If you can't see that, you're better off sticking with slabbed books.

 

Actually, I think that the onus is on the dealer, who this buyer looked to for honest information, to detect and report the resto. It's the dealer who should have caught this and been able to discuss the book that he is selling in a knowledgeable manner. I don't blame the buyer, who clearly looked to the dealer to be a reputable and knowledgeable expert and source of information.

 

I never said the onus wasn't on the dealer. He should have caught it. But would you go dropping several hundred dollars on something because a complete stranger told you it was ok?

 

My point is, until you feel confident that you can detect resto on your own, you probably should stick with books you can have some certainty on. This may come as a shock, but some dealers knowingly sell restored books as unrestored... Yes, it's true. And some used car dealers sell damaged cars as undamaged. That's why people get them inspected before buying. Caveat emptor is an oft-quoted phrase for a reason.

 

I understand the phrase caveat emptor. I also understand the term fraudulent inducement. A dealer at a comic book convention should give accurate information about raw books he is selling. I agree with Comicdonna here - I dont believe the onus is on the uninformed buyer to be able to overcome a dealer's misrepresentations. The sale is not a test, and unfortuneately a buyer under these circumstances has no way of obtaining third party verification of the dealer's representations (CGC) before the deal is consumated. Bottom line is that sellers in this profession should make full disclosure of all issues, and they surely should not make factual misrepresentations about a GA book in order to induce the buyer into paying an amount which an unrestored book calls for,

 

If we all did what we SHOULD, the world would be a different place. If you don't realize that people don't always do what they should, you're going to be in for a lot of disappointments. Let's not turn this into another gripe session about dealer ethics.

 

My point is that we all need to consider how to avoid these situations. If you were able to recognize the work before you consumated the purchase (and keep in mind this is amateur resto - should be easy to see), you would have been able to avoid all this trouble. Additionally, YOU should recognize that people are out there trying to rip you off. If you don't take measures to avoid that (either educate yourself or buy certified books) then you're going to get burnt.

 

You can either take my advice or keep tempting fate. Your choice.

[Sardo Numspar]

1) If you don't feel that you can detect resto you probably shouldn't be spending this kind of money on books. The cover is sealed to the pages and there's amateur reinforcement. That should be very easy to see with even a casual inspection. If you can't see that, you're better off sticking with slabbed books.

 

Actually, I think that the onus is on the dealer, who this buyer looked to for honest information, to detect and report the resto. It's the dealer who should have caught this and been able to discuss the book that he is selling in a knowledgeable manner. I don't blame the buyer, who clearly looked to the dealer to be a reputable and knowledgeable expert and source of information.

 

I never said the onus wasn't on the dealer. He should have caught it. But would you go dropping several hundred dollars on something because a complete stranger told you it was ok?

 

My point is, until you feel confident that you can detect resto on your own, you probably should stick with books you can have some certainty on. This may come as a shock, but some dealers knowingly sell restored books as unrestored... Yes, it's true. And some used car dealers sell damaged cars as undamaged. That's why people get them inspected before buying. Caveat emptor is an oft-quoted phrase for a reason.

 

I understand the phrase caveat emptor. I also understand the term fraudulent inducement. A dealer at a comic book convention should give accurate information about raw books he is selling. I agree with Comicdonna here - I dont believe the onus is on the uninformed buyer to be able to overcome a dealer's misrepresentations. The sale is not a test, and unfortuneately a buyer under these circumstances has no way of obtaining third party verification of the dealer's representations (CGC) before the deal is consumated. Bottom line is that sellers in this profession should make full disclosure of all issues, and they surely should not make factual misrepresentations about a GA book in order to induce the buyer into paying an amount which an unrestored book calls for,

 

If we all did what we SHOULD, the world would be a different place. If you don't realize that people don't always do what they should, you're going to be in for a lot of disappointments. Let's not turn this into another gripe session about dealer ethics.

 

My point is that we all need to consider how to avoid these situations. If you were able to recognize the work before you consumated the purchase (and keep in mind this is amateur resto - should be easy to see), you would have been able to avoid all this trouble. Additionally, YOU should recognize that people are out there trying to rip you off. If you don't take measures to avoid that (either educate yourself or buy certified books) then you're going to get burnt.

 

You can either take my advice or keep tempting fate. Your choice.

 

I totally appreciate your opinion. I am trying to learn more about restoration so that I can avoid problems like this in the future.

[The Black Hand ®]

1) If you don't feel that you can detect resto you probably shouldn't be spending this kind of money on books. The cover is sealed to the pages and there's amateur reinforcement. That should be very easy to see with even a casual inspection. If you can't see that, you're better off sticking with slabbed books.

 

Actually, I think that the onus is on the dealer, who this buyer looked to for honest information, to detect and report the resto. It's the dealer who should have caught this and been able to discuss the book that he is selling in a knowledgeable manner. I don't blame the buyer, who clearly looked to the dealer to be a reputable and knowledgeable expert and source of information.

 

I never said the onus wasn't on the dealer. He should have caught it. But would you go dropping several hundred dollars on something because a complete stranger told you it was ok?

 

My point is, until you feel confident that you can detect resto on your own, you probably should stick with books you can have some certainty on. This may come as a shock, but some dealers knowingly sell restored books as unrestored... Yes, it's true. And some used car dealers sell damaged cars as undamaged. That's why people get them inspected before buying. Caveat emptor is an oft-quoted phrase for a reason.

 

I understand the phrase caveat emptor. I also understand the term fraudulent inducement. A dealer at a comic book convention should give accurate information about raw books he is selling. I agree with Comicdonna here - I dont believe the onus is on the uninformed buyer to be able to overcome a dealer's misrepresentations. The sale is not a test, and unfortuneately a buyer under these circumstances has no way of obtaining third party verification of the dealer's representations (CGC) before the deal is consumated. Bottom line is that sellers in this profession should make full disclosure of all issues, and they surely should not make factual misrepresentations about a GA book in order to induce the buyer into paying an amount which an unrestored book calls for,

 

If we all did what we SHOULD, the world would be a different place. If you don't realize that people don't always do what they should, you're going to be in for a lot of disappointments. Let's not turn this into another gripe session about dealer ethics.

 

My point is that we all need to consider how to avoid these situations. If you were able to recognize the work before you consumated the purchase (and keep in mind this is amateur resto - should be easy to see), you would have been able to avoid all this trouble. Additionally, YOU should recognize that people are out there trying to rip you off. If you don't take measures to avoid that (either educate yourself or buy certified books) then you're going to get burnt.

 

You can either take my advice or keep tempting fate. Your choice.

 

I'm going to do both...avoid those kind of situations and gripe about dealers who fail to inform or lie about restoration. I would like to see the hobby cleaned up and the profit removed from deceptive business practices.

[buttock]

1) If you don't feel that you can detect resto you probably shouldn't be spending this kind of money on books. The cover is sealed to the pages and there's amateur reinforcement. That should be very easy to see with even a casual inspection. If you can't see that, you're better off sticking with slabbed books.

 

Actually, I think that the onus is on the dealer, who this buyer looked to for honest information, to detect and report the resto. It's the dealer who should have caught this and been able to discuss the book that he is selling in a knowledgeable manner. I don't blame the buyer, who clearly looked to the dealer to be a reputable and knowledgeable expert and source of information.

 

I never said the onus wasn't on the dealer. He should have caught it. But would you go dropping several hundred dollars on something because a complete stranger told you it was ok?

 

My point is, until you feel confident that you can detect resto on your own, you probably should stick with books you can have some certainty on. This may come as a shock, but some dealers knowingly sell restored books as unrestored... Yes, it's true. And some used car dealers sell damaged cars as undamaged. That's why people get them inspected before buying. Caveat emptor is an oft-quoted phrase for a reason.

 

I understand the phrase caveat emptor. I also understand the term fraudulent inducement. A dealer at a comic book convention should give accurate information about raw books he is selling. I agree with Comicdonna here - I dont believe the onus is on the uninformed buyer to be able to overcome a dealer's misrepresentations. The sale is not a test, and unfortuneately a buyer under these circumstances has no way of obtaining third party verification of the dealer's representations (CGC) before the deal is consumated. Bottom line is that sellers in this profession should make full disclosure of all issues, and they surely should not make factual misrepresentations about a GA book in order to induce the buyer into paying an amount which an unrestored book calls for,

 

If we all did what we SHOULD, the world would be a different place. If you don't realize that people don't always do what they should, you're going to be in for a lot of disappointments. Let's not turn this into another gripe session about dealer ethics.

 

My point is that we all need to consider how to avoid these situations. If you were able to recognize the work before you consumated the purchase (and keep in mind this is amateur resto - should be easy to see), you would have been able to avoid all this trouble. Additionally, YOU should recognize that people are out there trying to rip you off. If you don't take measures to avoid that (either educate yourself or buy certified books) then you're going to get burnt.

 

You can either take my advice or keep tempting fate. Your choice.

 

I'm going to do both...avoid those kind of situations and gripe about dealers who fail to inform or lie about restoration. I would like to see the hobby cleaned up and the profit removed from deceptive business practices.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

[buttock]

1) If you don't feel that you can detect resto you probably shouldn't be spending this kind of money on books. The cover is sealed to the pages and there's amateur reinforcement. That should be very easy to see with even a casual inspection. If you can't see that, you're better off sticking with slabbed books.

 

Actually, I think that the onus is on the dealer, who this buyer looked to for honest information, to detect and report the resto. It's the dealer who should have caught this and been able to discuss the book that he is selling in a knowledgeable manner. I don't blame the buyer, who clearly looked to the dealer to be a reputable and knowledgeable expert and source of information.

 

I never said the onus wasn't on the dealer. He should have caught it. But would you go dropping several hundred dollars on something because a complete stranger told you it was ok?

 

My point is, until you feel confident that you can detect resto on your own, you probably should stick with books you can have some certainty on. This may come as a shock, but some dealers knowingly sell restored books as unrestored... Yes, it's true. And some used car dealers sell damaged cars as undamaged. That's why people get them inspected before buying. Caveat emptor is an oft-quoted phrase for a reason.

 

I understand the phrase caveat emptor. I also understand the term fraudulent inducement. A dealer at a comic book convention should give accurate information about raw books he is selling. I agree with Comicdonna here - I dont believe the onus is on the uninformed buyer to be able to overcome a dealer's misrepresentations. The sale is not a test, and unfortuneately a buyer under these circumstances has no way of obtaining third party verification of the dealer's representations (CGC) before the deal is consumated. Bottom line is that sellers in this profession should make full disclosure of all issues, and they surely should not make factual misrepresentations about a GA book in order to induce the buyer into paying an amount which an unrestored book calls for,

 

If we all did what we SHOULD, the world would be a different place. If you don't realize that people don't always do what they should, you're going to be in for a lot of disappointments. Let's not turn this into another gripe session about dealer ethics.

 

My point is that we all need to consider how to avoid these situations. If you were able to recognize the work before you consumated the purchase (and keep in mind this is amateur resto - should be easy to see), you would have been able to avoid all this trouble. Additionally, YOU should recognize that people are out there trying to rip you off. If you don't take measures to avoid that (either educate yourself or buy certified books) then you're going to get burnt.

 

You can either take my advice or keep tempting fate. Your choice.

 

I totally appreciate your opinion. I am trying to learn more about restoration so that I can avoid problems like this in the future.

 

Have you checked out the "how to detect restoration" thread? It's great info.

 

But when you're at shows, ask to look at restored books. Look at the interior spine at the staples - and FEEL the spine as well. This was recently pointed out to me, but often an abnormal feel (stiffness, texture, etc) is the first and best hint that something isn't up to snuff.

 

Oh, and count pages & check the CF on every book you want to buy.

[jkrk]

1) If you don't feel that you can detect resto you probably shouldn't be spending this kind of money on books. The cover is sealed to the pages and there's amateur reinforcement. That should be very easy to see with even a casual inspection. If you can't see that, you're better off sticking with slabbed books.

 

Actually, I think that the onus is on the dealer, who this buyer looked to for honest information, to detect and report the resto. It's the dealer who should have caught this and been able to discuss the book that he is selling in a knowledgeable manner. I don't blame the buyer, who clearly looked to the dealer to be a reputable and knowledgeable expert and source of information.

 

I never said the onus wasn't on the dealer. He should have caught it. But would you go dropping several hundred dollars on something because a complete stranger told you it was ok?

 

My point is, until you feel confident that you can detect resto on your own, you probably should stick with books you can have some certainty on. This may come as a shock, but some dealers knowingly sell restored books as unrestored... Yes, it's true. And some used car dealers sell damaged cars as undamaged. That's why people get them inspected before buying. Caveat emptor is an oft-quoted phrase for a reason.

 

I understand the phrase caveat emptor. I also understand the term fraudulent inducement. A dealer at a comic book convention should give accurate information about raw books he is selling. I agree with Comicdonna here - I dont believe the onus is on the uninformed buyer to be able to overcome a dealer's misrepresentations. The sale is not a test, and unfortuneately a buyer under these circumstances has no way of obtaining third party verification of the dealer's representations (CGC) before the deal is consumated. Bottom line is that sellers in this profession should make full disclosure of all issues, and they surely should not make factual misrepresentations about a GA book in order to induce the buyer into paying an amount which an unrestored book calls for,

 

If we all did what we SHOULD, the world would be a different place. If you don't realize that people don't always do what they should, you're going to be in for a lot of disappointments. Let's not turn this into another gripe session about dealer ethics.

 

My point is that we all need to consider how to avoid these situations. If you were able to recognize the work before you consumated the purchase (and keep in mind this is amateur resto - should be easy to see), you would have been able to avoid all this trouble. Additionally, YOU should recognize that people are out there trying to rip you off. If you don't take measures to avoid that (either educate yourself or buy certified books) then you're going to get burnt.

 

You can either take my advice or keep tempting fate. Your choice.

 

I totally appreciate your opinion. I am trying to learn more about restoration so that I can avoid problems like this in the future.

 

Have you checked out the "how to detect restoration" thread? It's great info.

 

But when you're at shows, ask to look at restored books. Look at the interior spine at the staples - and FEEL the spine as well. This was recently pointed out to me, but often an abnormal feel (stiffness, texture, etc) is the first and best hint that something isn't up to snuff.

 

Oh, and count pages & check the CF on every book you want to buy.

 

I've read enough threads over the past week or so to understand that if you wish to buy unrestored books, Dan is one of the guys you want to go to conventions with. (thumbs u

[buttock]

Unfortunately learned from experience....

[Sardo Numspar]

1) If you don't feel that you can detect resto you probably shouldn't be spending this kind of money on books. The cover is sealed to the pages and there's amateur reinforcement. That should be very easy to see with even a casual inspection. If you can't see that, you're better off sticking with slabbed books.

 

Actually, I think that the onus is on the dealer, who this buyer looked to for honest information, to detect and report the resto. It's the dealer who should have caught this and been able to discuss the book that he is selling in a knowledgeable manner. I don't blame the buyer, who clearly looked to the dealer to be a reputable and knowledgeable expert and source of information.

 

I never said the onus wasn't on the dealer. He should have caught it. But would you go dropping several hundred dollars on something because a complete stranger told you it was ok?

 

My point is, until you feel confident that you can detect resto on your own, you probably should stick with books you can have some certainty on. This may come as a shock, but some dealers knowingly sell restored books as unrestored... Yes, it's true. And some used car dealers sell damaged cars as undamaged. That's why people get them inspected before buying. Caveat emptor is an oft-quoted phrase for a reason.

 

I understand the phrase caveat emptor. I also understand the term fraudulent inducement. A dealer at a comic book convention should give accurate information about raw books he is selling. I agree with Comicdonna here - I dont believe the onus is on the uninformed buyer to be able to overcome a dealer's misrepresentations. The sale is not a test, and unfortuneately a buyer under these circumstances has no way of obtaining third party verification of the dealer's representations (CGC) before the deal is consumated. Bottom line is that sellers in this profession should make full disclosure of all issues, and they surely should not make factual misrepresentations about a GA book in order to induce the buyer into paying an amount which an unrestored book calls for,

 

If we all did what we SHOULD, the world would be a different place. If you don't realize that people don't always do what they should, you're going to be in for a lot of disappointments. Let's not turn this into another gripe session about dealer ethics.

 

My point is that we all need to consider how to avoid these situations. If you were able to recognize the work before you consumated the purchase (and keep in mind this is amateur resto - should be easy to see), you would have been able to avoid all this trouble. Additionally, YOU should recognize that people are out there trying to rip you off. If you don't take measures to avoid that (either educate yourself or buy certified books) then you're going to get burnt.

 

You can either take my advice or keep tempting fate. Your choice.

 

I totally appreciate your opinion. I am trying to learn more about restoration so that I can avoid problems like this in the future.

 

Have you checked out the "how to detect restoration" thread? It's great info.

 

But when you're at shows, ask to look at restored books. Look at the interior spine at the staples - and FEEL the spine as well. This was recently pointed out to me, but often an abnormal feel (stiffness, texture, etc) is the first and best hint that something isn't up to snuff.

 

Oh, and count pages & check the CF on every book you want to buy.

 

That's good info. The next convention I will be going to is Super Con in South Florida towards the end of May. I will definitely take your advice.

[sacentaur]

Unfortunately learned from experience....

 

Amen, brother...

[Detroit MIke]

I think we all have a few good horror stories. Roll with the punches and arm yourself with knowledge.

[fishbone]

I think we all have a few good horror stories.

 

Amen to THAT

[comicdonna]

I think we all have a few good horror stories.

 

Amen to THAT

I think Sardo has the makings for a great collector. He's starting out just like I did. Learning from experience. I know for a fact that he has picked out some very nice books for his collection. I must say that I am somewhat jealous but, glad for him!

[sacentaur]

I think we all have a few good horror stories. Roll with the punches and arm yourself with knowledge.

 

Good advice, Mike (especially in view of recent events).

 

It's sometimes hard to remember that there are some really fantastic dealers out there who have an established track record of treating their clientele fairly, and with courtesy and respect.

 

While the "usual suspects" may unfortunately occupy a lot of our thoughts due to their misdeeds, we probably don't pass out kudos often enough to the good guys whose efforts help sustain this wonderful hobby of ours.

 

 

[Sardo Numspar]

I think we all have a few good horror stories.

 

Amen to THAT

I think Sardo has the makings for a great collector. He's starting out just like I did. Learning from experience. I know for a fact that he has picked out some very nice books for his collection. I must say that I am somewhat jealous but, glad for him!

 

Thanks you Comicdonna. Let me know when you want that Action #72.

[The Black Hand ®]

Say you come across a vf+ or better copy of Pep 22 at a convention, how comfortable is a dealer going to be letting you count the pages and rub the spine? I've bought a few books that I've later found to have reattached covers using tiny bits of archival tape or non acidic glues. All the books have been under fine/vf's and most under vg/fine. I don't know if it was just to preserve the books or to pretty them up or to deceive or all of the above. I can see how minor work like that on lower grade books can escape a dealers notice, especially when the pass through so many different buyers and sellers and cost under 500.00.

[buttock]

Say you come across a vf+ or better copy of Pep 22 at a convention, how comfortable is a dealer going to be letting you count the pages and rub the spine? I've bought a few books that I've later found to have reattached covers using tiny bits of archival tape or non acidic glues. All the books have been under fine/vf's and most under vg/fine. I don't know if it was just to preserve the books or to pretty them up or to deceive or all of the above. I can see how minor work like that on lower grade books can escape a dealers notice, especially when the pass through so many different buyers and sellers and cost under 500.00.

 

Some situations are hypothetical, others are fantasy. This falls into the latter.

 

That being said, I can't imagine anyone with a $75-100K book not expecting prospective buyers to examine it.

[The Black Hand ®]

Say you come across a vf+ or better copy of Pep 22 at a convention, how comfortable is a dealer going to be letting you count the pages and rub the spine? I've bought a few books that I've later found to have reattached covers using tiny bits of archival tape or non acidic glues. All the books have been under fine/vf's and most under vg/fine. I don't know if it was just to preserve the books or to pretty them up or to deceive or all of the above. I can see how minor work like that on lower grade books can escape a dealers notice, especially when the pass through so many different buyers and sellers and cost under 500.00.

 

Some situations are hypothetical, others are fantasy. This falls into the latter.

 

That being said, I can't imagine anyone with a $75-100K book not expecting prospective buyers to examine it.

 

I guess if they know you as a serious, experienced buyer, but I see this as another reason to slab a book like that. I've seen higher grade books fall in grade from mishandling or too much handling, Especially around the staple area. I also imagine a book like Pep 22 in high grade is going to find a spot in a collection pretty fast and not bounce around too much.