DAVID TOTH DC collection at HERITAGE

[cd4ever]

I think CGC is hesitant to give the Pedigree label to any collections these days let alone a Silver Age one unless it is an absolutely incredible selection of books in terms of quality and quantity. The books in this collection are absolutely amazing but offhand on the quantity level it seems to fall a bit short. Surprised no collection notation though, you'd think this collection would deserve at least that but then again I guess David Toth isn't a celebrity in the real world or comic world.

I'm sure they could have gotten that on the label for the right price. I guess they decided the return wasn't worth it.

[EJR]

This is a great time for us old timers to finally see some great HG SA DC books come out of the woodwork thats for sure! Its amazing that some collectors took such good care of their collections when the preservation methods of their time were primative compared to today's standards. I bought some of the Toronto books and its a shame that the original collector didn't live long enough to see the incredible prices that his collection brought. But I reckon that some collectors never plan on selling their books in their lifetime! Hope Heritage gives us the scoop on the David Toth collection. Erik

[tth2]

I think CGC is hesitant to give the Pedigree label to any collections these days let alone a Silver Age one unless it is an absolutely incredible selection of books in terms of quality and quantity. The books in this collection are absolutely amazing but offhand on the quantity level it seems to fall a bit short. Surprised no collection notation though, you'd think this collection would deserve at least that but then again I guess David Toth isn't a celebrity in the real world or comic world.

Has Heritage said anything about the size of this collection or whether it's all OO, or just a collection assembled by a collector (ala Nic Cage). If they haven't said anything about size, I wouldn't necessarily go by the number of books in this auction as Heritage often seem to roll out collections in waves rather than one massive auction (Janowicz, Fantastic Frank, Crippen, McLaughlin, etc.). Among other things, they're probably constrained by how fast CGC can grade and slab the books.

[namisgr]

Has Heritage said anything about the size of this collection or whether it's all OO, or just a collection assembled by a collector (ala Nic Cage). If they haven't said anything about size, I wouldn't necessarily go by the number of books in this auction as Heritage often seem to roll out collections in waves rather than one massive auction (Janowicz, Fantastic Frank, Crippen, McLaughlin, etc.). Among other things, they're probably constrained by how fast CGC can grade and slab the books.

 

From the heritage website: "The highest-graded copies of Justice League of America #1, Flash #123, and Lois Lane #1 are just three highlights of the original-owner David Toth Collection, one of the best DC Silver Age collections we have ever seen. See below for the comics from the collection, which will be offered in our May 22-23 Comic and Comic Art auction."

 

An original owner collection with a number of top census copies of early DC SA, including at least a few keys. I suppose the only issue in my mind that might keep this from being worthy of pedigree designation is the breadth/size of the collection. Indeed, the last line from Heritage raises the possibility that the upcoming auction will feature ALL the collection.

[peewee22]

To all Boardies who posted in this thread:

 

Peddy or no Peddy, I've never SEEN or SMELLED a better bb28 with this whiteness and freshness....in ALL my light-years of searching for those "above Fine" DCs!!!

 

I mean...just look at it's butt...white as snow!!

 

One helluva book Toth.

 

 

 

[adamstrange]

One of our boardies has a pretty nice copy.

[tth2]

To all Boardies who posted in this thread:

 

Peddy or no Peddy, I've never SEEN or SMELLED a better bb28 with this whiteness and freshness....in ALL my light-years of searching for those "above Fine" DCs!!!

 

I mean...just look at it's butt...white as snow!!

 

One helluva book Toth.

 

 

 

Sweet book! I will be very intrigued to see what it sells for.

 

From your comment about smell, have you actually held the raw book in your hands?

[peewee22]

To all Boardies who posted in this thread:

 

Peddy or no Peddy, I've never SEEN or SMELLED a better bb28 with this whiteness and freshness....in ALL my light-years of searching for those "above Fine" DCs!!!

 

I mean...just look at it's butt...white as snow!!

 

One helluva book Toth.

 

 

 

Sweet book! I will be very intrigued to see what it sells for.

 

From your comment about smell, have you actually held the raw book in your hands?

 

I wish!

 

Tim, if I had to guess, I'd say 30-40k would be a bargain for this DC in the upcoming auction.

[brasseye]

No doubt quite a few. Two years ago posters were swearing up and down on this Forum that all the raw early SA HGs had to have been CGC'd or be out into the marketplace by then. Collectors were stupid not to. The old adage "collectors don't CGC unless they're selling" still applies. And there are many collectors who aren't selling...

Jim

 

Valiantman posted a link to the new census update the other day, and nosing through it, these figures really stood out for me...

 

1960s - Marvel Comics (139,682 submissions)

1960s - D.C. Comics (43,837 submissions)

1970s - Marvel Comics (166,402 submissions)

1970s - D.C. Comics (42,850 submissions)

 

People keep harping on about the scarcity of DC over Marvel for early SA books in grade. But right off the bat, the submissions aren't really there...so far

 

Marvel sub's are sitting on a 3 to 1 ration for DC's so the constant talk of rarity could be pinned down to DC collectors not yet fully embrassing CGC. So paying premium prices for key DC -scarce books in grade could prove to be a false economy in the long term.

 

 

[peewee22]

No doubt quite a few. Two years ago posters were swearing up and down on this Forum that all the raw early SA HGs had to have been CGC'd or be out into the marketplace by then. Collectors were stupid not to. The old adage "collectors don't CGC unless they're selling" still applies. And there are many collectors who aren't selling...

Jim

 

Valiantman posted a link to the new census update the other day, and nosing through it, these figures really stood out for me...

 

1960s - Marvel Comics (139,682 submissions)

1960s - D.C. Comics (43,837 submissions)

1970s - Marvel Comics (166,402 submissions)

1970s - D.C. Comics (42,850 submissions)

 

People keep harping on about the scarcity of DC over Marvel for early SA books in grade. But right off the bat, the submissions aren't really there...so far

 

Marvel sub's are sitting on a 3 to 1 ration for DC's so the constant talk of rarity could be pinned down to DC collectors not yet fully embrassing CGC. So paying premium prices for key DC -scarce books in grade could prove to be a false economy in the long term.

 

 

I for one LOVE the early Marvels...always have..always will. But, so far, there's been no SC 22 surfaced above 9.0. And there won't be, Even if it's sleeping somewhere, I'll lay 5 to 1 that's it WON'T have white pages.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sal]

SC = Showcase?

 

That's a headscratcher of an acronym

[tth2]

Marvel sub's are sitting on a 3 to 1 ration for DC's so the constant talk of rarity could be pinned down to DC collectors not yet fully embrassing CGC. So paying premium prices for key DC -scarce books in grade could prove to be a false economy in the long term.

 

The concept of SA DC scarcity in HG is not something that sprang into existence after the arrival of CGC. Talk to any collector who`s been chasing HG SA DCs for 20-30 years and they`ll tell you that the DCs are definitely scarcer than Marvels. The Census has actually only served to confirm this.

[aardvark88]

It is quite simple. Most of the SA DCs (1956 up) keys came out about 4-5 years before the SA Marvel keys (1960 up) leading to their scarcity in vf 8.0 or better. There seem to be 15 copies of AF #15 on the market for every 1 copy of Show #4 for sale.

[paperheart]

It is quite simple. Most of the SA DCs (1956 up) keys came out about 4-5 years before the SA Marvel keys (1960 up) leading to their scarcity in vf 8.0 or better. There seem to be 15 copies of AF #15 on the market for every 1 copy of Show #4 for sale.

 

makes sense. there have been 7x as many AF #15's graded as showcase #4's.

[clarkkentdds]

These Toth books at Heritage are very nice. But, I've been looking at the scans, and some of them have lenient grades. Does anyone else agree? I see a lot of staples stresses on the 9.4s.

 

I think they are some of the nicest books from this period, but the scans look like CGC went easy on them. Still nice, but 9.4s?

[tth2]

These Toth books at Heritage are very nice. But, I've been looking at the scans, and some of them have lenient grades. Does anyone else agree? I see a lot of staples stresses on the 9.4s.

 

I think they are some of the nicest books from this period, but the scans look like CGC went easy on them. Still nice, but 9.4s?

I totally agree.

 

It seems like EVERY large collection that CGC has graded recently has gotten really lenient grades. I've been pretty disappointed with the "Fantastic Frank" books I've purchased, and I just throw my hands up when I look at a lot of the recently slabbed Dell file copies that have come up for sale recently. They might say 9.4 or 9.6 on the label, but they don't look it to me.

[Flash105]

No doubt quite a few. Two years ago posters were swearing up and down on this Forum that all the raw early SA HGs had to have been CGC'd or be out into the marketplace by then. Collectors were stupid not to. The old adage "collectors don't CGC unless they're selling" still applies. And there are many collectors who aren't selling...

 

 

Jim

 

Valiantman posted a link to the new census update the other day, and nosing through it, these figures really stood out for me...

 

1960s - Marvel Comics (139,682 submissions)

1960s - D.C. Comics (43,837 submissions)

1970s - Marvel Comics (166,402 submissions)

1970s - D.C. Comics (42,850 submissions)

 

People keep harping on about the scarcity of DC over Marvel for early SA books in grade. But right off the bat, the submissions aren't really there...so far

 

Marvel sub's are sitting on a 3 to 1 ration for DC's so the constant talk of rarity could be pinned down to DC collectors not yet fully embrassing CGC. So paying premium prices for key DC -scarce books in grade could prove to be a false economy in the long term.

 

 

I'm not trying to just stir up an argument but don't these numbers confirm what you arguing against, that there are just not that many high quality DCs. On average the DCs are six years older and have lower print runs. After 1,000,000 submissions to CGC I bet these ratios will hold up over the years. For every Toth collection there will be three Marvel collections unearthed.

[frankiecastle]

These Toth books at Heritage are very nice. But, I've been looking at the scans, and some of them have lenient grades. Does anyone else agree? I see a lot of staples stresses on the 9.4s.

 

I think they are some of the nicest books from this period, but the scans look like CGC went easy on them. Still nice, but 9.4s?

I totally agree.

 

It seems like EVERY large collection that CGC has graded recently has gotten really lenient grades. I've been pretty disappointed with the "Fantastic Frank" books I've purchased, and I just throw my hands up when I look at a lot of the recently slabbed Dell file copies that have come up for sale recently. They might say 9.4 or 9.6 on the label, but they don't look it to me.

 

bid accordingly