Are there any keys here?

[NewWorldOrder]

In my opinion there really has not been a major 1st appearance since the 1970’s in an any publishing comic company.

 

I also think scarcity comes into play a little as well.

 

Have you ever read Bone? If so, have you ever tried to find a copy of Bone #1?

 

Bone is cool, but he is still not a major character by the masses.

 

I am not saying he is small potatoes, but I dont think you can consider him a major character.

 

Yes Bone #1 is vey hard to Find just like TMNT #1.

 

Depends on what you mean by masses. Watch this.

 

Very Cool!

 

Nice Bone Registry by the way!

[NewWorldOrder]

My defintion of a Major Key

 

1. Worth more money than like 20.00 bucks

 

2. Not easy to find in HG

 

3. A major Superhero/Villian 1st appearance, death, origin, x-over or a significant 1st issue, etc...

 

4. The character must transcend both from our comic-fase to little Billy on the street who does not read comics but knows the basics about that character

(ie Batman, spiderman, superman, etc...)

 

 

 

 

 

[SuperBird]

There is nothing key about going to a comic convention and seeing 500 copies of ASM 300 AVAILABLE.

 

well, I feel the same way about amazing fantasy 15....!

 

anything from a major publisher post WW2 is somewhat common.

[NewWorldOrder]

There is nothing key about going to a comic convention and seeing 500 copies of ASM 300 AVAILABLE.

 

well, I feel the same way about amazing fantasy 15....!

 

anything from a major publisher post WW2 is somewhat common.

 

They may be common but man its touch to find one at a reasonable price.

 

But that is a whole other topic because if you talking about HG copies, well off course those are not common, especially the DC's.

[valiantman]

4. The character must transcend both from our comic-fase to little Billy on the street who does not read comics but knows the basics about that character

(ie Batman, spiderman, superman, etc...)

 

Interesting point... because I think little Billy on the street knows more

about Hellboy than Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, or Captain America.

[NewWorldOrder]

4. The character must transcend both from our comic-fase to little Billy on the street who does not read comics but knows the basics about that character

(ie Batman, spiderman, superman, etc...)

 

Interesting point... because I think little Billy on the street knows more

about Hellboy than Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, or Captain America.

 

The movies def help! Which is great!

 

Well in 2 years those 3 examples will all be fixed with there own movies!

[DocGo]

By your definition, I would name three candidates: TMNT #1, Bone #1, and The Tick Special Edition #1. Everyone knows who the Turtles are but not necessarily from comics. A lot of people know what Bone is, but more from trades sold in book stores. I'm not sure about The Tick. I was really into The Tick cartoon when I was a kid but I don't know how far the popularity spread (other than the fact that it spawned a short-lived live action TV series).

 

Amazing Fantasy #15 isn't common in HG is it? Only thirteen blue labels 9.0 and above.

[MR.COMICBOOK]

You would think with all the money Marvel and DC had since the 1980`s they would come up with more important new characters, as it stands now we got 2 of significance by the big two, Deadpool and Cable and the funny thing is they were both created by Liefeld. that seems to say a lot about the big two.

DC has no new characters that have made any impact.

 

Well, it's still early to know about longterm impact... but I'd say that Venom is a "staple" in the Spider-man mythos, and he has a Copper Age beginning.

For D.C., you've got two new villains Doomsday and Bane...

both were very important for a short period of time... and Azrael.

 

Depending on when the Copper Age begins, though, the most important Marvel and DC books

may be the Secret Wars and Crisis on Infinite Earths series. They're not very valuable

because of the large print runs, but in terms of "what they started" in massive storylines,

they will probably be viewed as the "first" of what has become an industry standard.

Most of the ones you mention are villians. interesting? no new major heroes by the big 2 in 25 years unless you count the Liefeld due Deadpool and Cable.

[Bronty]

30, almost 35 years now. Punisher and wolverine are really the most recent major heroes, no? some good points have been made here re superhero saturation, declining readership and lack of innovation.

 

any way you shake it its getting to be a pretty stale medium when nothing really significant has happened in half a lifetime! Let's face it - while a great story can transcend any medium (and therefore there are exceptions), telling a story through pictures and word balloons on printed paper is largely ancient history. Its no longer cost effective and its no longer a dynamic medium either. I can go to chapters if I want cost effectiveness and buy a 400 page novel in softback for the same price as a krappy modern it will take me all of twenty minutes to read (if I'm lucky). Or if I'm a kid who wants something dynamic and exciting, I'm sure as hell not getting it from retreads of what was done in the 60s or in fact through *anything* that would require me to read.

[Schmakt]

Marvel and DC have, as a generality, gotten out of the business of creating art and into the business of making money. Protecting the brand and keeping readers is more important to the corporation that Marvel has become than allowing art and ideas to be expressed. It's not a criticism of either company, per se, but of, if anything, society. Most people like the comfort of Spider-Man... or sometimes even the blandness. It's the same reason we go to McDonald's. That mess is nasty, but it's consistent and we know what we're getting.

 

Not that they weren't always in the business to make money, but people were trying anything and everything and just hoped something stuck. Marvel got the formula right. They definitely aren't in the business of innovating anymore... unless it's innovative marketing.

 

So... I don't think it's a stale medium necessarily... there just aren't the same number of idle children out there looking for entertainment or an icon or a hero or an escape as there were 60 or 70 years ago. There's plenty of innovation out there, but it's difficult for the large companies on top to take the risks required to be truly innovative.

 

I'd like to point to Vertigo or Icon maybe as examples of how the companies are trying to be innovative, but Vertigo was created around an idea that was already proven to be profitable, and Icon... has anything happened that wasn't by a previously established creative team? Not that there's anything wrong with that, but the risk involved is minimal...

[kidcolt]

I agree with you. My little brother who falls in the age group when the TMNT first became popular collected them because of the figuers and tv shows. He didn't know that they were first introduced in comics. The same thing goes for him and the Tick. Bone was first introduced to my brother and I through comics.

 

It seems like DC and Marvel like to stick to the mainstream type comics.

 

 

 

By your definition, I would name three candidates: TMNT #1, Bone #1, and The Tick Special Edition #1. Everyone knows who the Turtles are but not necessarily from comics. A lot of people know what Bone is, but more from trades sold in book stores. I'm not sure about The Tick. I was really into The Tick cartoon when I was a kid but I don't know how far the popularity spread (other than the fact that it spawned a short-lived live action TV series).

 

Amazing Fantasy #15 isn't common in HG is it? Only thirteen blue labels 9.0 and above.

[MR.COMICBOOK]

most of the new characters,I guess are saved for the videogame market now, if you had a character your hoping he gets played on xbox 360,PS3 or Wii and not Marvel or DC. So I think that answers our question.

Halo,Resident Evil,Snake from Metal Gear ...etc the young creators took all thier creations to the gaming industry and not to Marvel or DC.

SONY VS.NINTENDO VS MICROSOFT is the new Marvel vs.DC wars.

[sckao]

Copper Age Keys 1981-1992?

 

Not necessarily high worth for some of these...

 

1981

Avengers Annual 10

Daredevil 168

Dazzler 1 (Start of Copper Age? Start of Direct Age?)

X-men 142, 143 Days of Future Path. X-men title change.

 

1982

Daredevil 181 1982

PPSS 64 (Cloak and Dagger)

Wolverine LS 1982

 

1983

Amazing Spider-man 238

Omega Men 3

Thor 337

 

1984- Start of Copper Age according to Geppi and his museum

Amazing Spider-man 252

GI Joe 21

Secret Wars 8

Swamp Thing 20, 21

Tales of the Teen Titans 44

TMNT 1

 

1985

Crisis on Infinite Earths 7, 8

Swamp Thing 37

 

1986

Action Comics 583

Dark Horse Presents 1 (First Concrete)

Dark Knight Returns 1

Punisher Limited Series 1

Watchmen 1

Superman 423

Star Wars 107

 

1987

Batman 404-407 Year One

 

1988

Amazing Spider-man 300

Batman: The Killing Joke

Miracleman 15

Incredible Hulk 340

 

1989

Cry for Dawn 1

Sandman 1, 8

 

1990

New Mutants 87

X-men 266

 

1991

Bone 1 (Bone)

Dark Horse Presents Fifth Anniversary Special (First Sin City)

New Mutants 98

 

1992

Harbinger 1

 

MISC NOT IN CA:

 

Hellboy's first appearance (Comic-Con Comics #2, Next Men 21) 1993

Preacher 1 1995

 

 

[joe_collector]

Ummmm..... Amazing Spider-man 238 is definitely Copper Age.

 

I mean, those doofuses at can say 1984 because they've got stack of HG 1981-83 books they want to advertise as "high-grade Bronze!!", but I'd like just one of them to say (with a straight face) that ASM 238 is a key BRONZE AGE book.

 

Never happen.

[sckao]

Ummmm..... Amazing Spider-man 238 is definitely Copper Age.

 

I mean, those doofuses at can say 1984 because they've got stack of HG 1981-83 books they want to advertise as "high-grade Bronze!!", but I'd like just one of them to say (with a straight face) that ASM 238 is a key BRONZE AGE book.

 

Never happen.

 

Well, they had to make a cut-off at some point...

 

I'd include 1983 myself since Thor 337 is in there too...

 

[SuperBird]

is there any kind of consensus on when the copper age started? My gut would be to start with either TMNT 1 (start of indy craze), Secret Wars 1 (first mega-series). Or just a bland year to start with, maybe 1980?

 

In my head it was always just '1980'.

[valiantman]

1989

Sandman 1, 8

Cry For Dawn 1

[sckao]

1989

Sandman 1, 8

Cry For Dawn 1

 

Added. (thumbs u

 

Also added Killing Joke and Batman 404-408 (Year one)

 

 

[joe_collector]

In a BA thread, there was some compelling evidence that it started in 1981.

 

That was the beginning of true Independent comics publishing (Pacific), the year Frank Miller took over writing/art duties on Daredevil (introducing Elektra), the year that Days of Future Past was published in X-Men, the rise of the Direct Market with Dazzler #1, Byrne taking over writer/artist on the Fantastic Four, then into the Wolverine mini in 1982.

[SuperBird]

Maybe then it's either the start of indy comics, or dazzler #1, the start of direct market. the other books seem like less of 'events' and more of just calling out cool books from around the time.

 

so go ahead- add Dazzler #1 as a key Copper book! It's just like Showcase #4!