Are there any keys here?

[Point Five]

... And for me, it was all about reading and collecting individual books until 1990 when Marvel released their series of number number issues. I believe they released one new book each month for the first six months of the year culminating with McFarlane's Spider-Man. The number one issues of some of those books (Ghost Rider, New Warriors, and Spider-Man) were the first new books that I ever bought more than one of for "investment" purposes. I still loved to read my favorite books, but I was also always thinking about their re-sale value. And I think a lot of other people (especially younger people) followed the exact same path. I went from being one of a handful of comic collectors in my high school to being asked by my classmates what books they should buy for investment or what I thought of ______ series. Comics had become trendy. It might just be my age at the time, but in my personal experience, the Copper Age ended in 1990. Previous to that year, there was speculation on new issues of course, but JC is right, in 1990 it was like someone flipped on a neon sign that said "come buy comics for their potential value." Comic shops were filled with people who didn't really care about the actual stories, artwork, or characters. That to me was a greater change than any one series or company beign launched. Sorry this got so long, but I didn't want my first post here to be completely lame.

Welcome, and great post!

 

This is embarrassing, but I can remember one night circa 1990 when I was unable to sleep, because I was feverishly trying to decide the perfect number of McFarlane Spiderman #1s to buy up the day they came out. I guess every dumb teen thought they would get rich with those things!

 

In the end, I just bought one copy, decided it was absolute junk, and "speculated" no further. As you said, it was obvious where Marvel was heading with their barrage of #1s, multiple covers and other gimmicks, and I just did not like it at all.

[Schmakt]

How much does scarcity play into the keyness of a comic?

 

Obviously no one will ever think that X-Force #1 is a key, but what if there were only 10,000 of them out there? Would that change our opinions?

 

 

Speaking of...

Remember when one of the cards was "worth" more than the rest of the cards? Was it the Shatterstar one? Whatever happened to that guy anyway... didin't he turn out to be gay?

 

Also remember how people started saying that the black Captain America was "worth" more than the UPC code or something like that? Not only were there 5 separate cards, but also potentially 2 different versions of each separate card. You needed 15 copies to be complete! (assuming, of course, like any good collector you needed to buy copies to open and take the cards out of as well as having sealed versions of every card w both different UPC options...

 

EDIT: Oh... and Welcome to posting!

[joe_collector]

How much does scarcity play into the keyness of a comic?

 

Absolutely none, and that will only potentially reflect on the resale value.

[Kraken's Lair]

Welcome, and great post!

 

This is embarrassing, but I can remember one night circa 1990 when I was unable to sleep, because I was feverishly trying to decide the perfect number of McFarlane Spiderman #1s to buy up the day they came out. I guess every dumb teen thought they would get rich with those things!

 

 

That's so funny (and scarily similar to how I was thinking at the time). Unfortunately, I actually ordered 10 copies each of the regular and silver editions from American Entertainment or a similar mail order outfit. They were offering a discount if you bought 10 or more copies, so I thought it was a can't miss deal.

 

I was foolish to buy so many, of course, but the funny thing was I actually sold a few of each for over cover price right after they came out. In the pre-ebay days, once a book was sold out locally, it could be tough to find one if you missed it and I think some people only bought one or the other cover to start with. Those days seem so long ago now, but I still have most of those Spideys.

[vic6string]

yeah, Ebay is both the best and worst thing that ever happened to this (or any other collectable) market. There was a time when if you wanted a certain comic, sportscard, or action figure in my area, chances are it would at some point in the chain go through either my hands or one of my buddies. So selling stuff at or above book price was not a problem. Simple supply and demand. The local supply was small enough that any demand was enough to bump up prices. Now, no matter what you want, someone somewhere has it for sale, and many are more than willing to sell for a fraction of book cost (we're talking in general, not stuff like slabbed 9.8 silver age keys)

 

As for scarcity having anything to do with being a key: nope, not at all. If it were, all my Triumphant comics would be certified classics. Scarcity only affects price. Now, if you have a key issue, AND it is scarce (like the pre-unity valiants) you have potential for big bucks. If the new valiant re-launch works out, for instance, and the Harbinger movie is a hit, Harbinger 1 becomes a key that would probably be on par with something like Spawn #1 in importance, but price-wise could be 10 times as much.

[sckao]

In 1977, Chuck Rozanski was already selling Daredevil #1 for $900.

 

That's the GA series, right?

 

You're right, of course. I forgot about the GA Daredevil...

 

He was selling a Superman #1 in Fine for $3000 in the same catalog (which had the Church collection listed).

 

http://www.milehighcomics.com/catalog/main.html

 

 

 

 

[Topnotchman]

When it comes to the first time I speculated. It was when Wolverine mini #1 by Frank Miller came out. I bought 3 copies for just under $2.00, I checked through a stack to make sure the spines were nice and clean. That book was hyped up and was one of the largest comics our local comic shop ever ordered. He had to of had 200 copies. The book was bought by everyone. Yet today that book still sells graded and ungraded. This thread is great and really brings back some memories.

[nickwire]

my worst investing was getting as many copper indy titles as i could since tmnt exploded. some were a suprise that they were actually good (loved trollords) but so many were drek

[whetteon]

There was a fantastic post made somewhere in the Bronze Age forum by a guy who studies the various ancient ages. He made clear all of the various ages of comics with a well thought out post detailing his thoughts on how the whole industry would/could be viewed in relation to how people view time lines of ages in the history major circles.

 

Basically Conan 1 was the start of the Marvel Bronze Age and the Green Lantern 76 was the start of the DC Bronze Age. Somewhere around 1975, with the X-Men rebirth, we experienced a second phase to the Bronze Age and a slight new direction but still decidedly Bronze. He mentioned around X-Men 137 or Teenage Turtles 1 we had a transaction period where some titles were still feeling very Bronze while others had a distinct Copper feel. Much like the move of civilization from Bronze tools to Iron. It didn't happen over night.

 

I choose to believe that the Copper Age also had two phases. One in which the storyline was king and books like Watchmen and The Dark Knight redefined the industry. And a later one in which gimmicks and artist's pushed books reigned supreme. around the 1990-95 era. The implosion of our own industry seems to signify the modern period in my eyes.

 

Just my opinion.

[Yannis]

I am going to be a little bit of the bad guy here..................but sorry guys and ladies, most books of the Bronze to modern age will never see the price range or the scarcity level of GA books. A S 300? thousands of them in high grade, so is X-men 266 so is Hulk 181, so is A S 238 keep going.... maybe a few exceptions like say for example Star Wars 1 35 cent variant, buty not much there.

 

Just this year alone you know how many time I have seen Wolverine 1 (the limited series) pop up as a 9.8? I cannot even count. Yes the book is in high demand and has seen good numbers come in , but id still rather save my money for a really nice GA book (like a later issue of More Fun -Spectre cover lets say).

[joe_collector]

I am going to be a little bit of the bad guy here..................but sorry guys and ladies, most books of the Bronze to modern age will never see the price range or the scarcity level of GA books.

 

So... what does that have to do with the conversation? Or are you one of those people who runs around, answering questions that no one asks?

 

When I buy a book, I don't give a rat's hass how scarce it is, only that I like it and want to add it to my collection. I buy what I like, and if you're driven purely by scarcity, then why are you even collecting comics?

 

Compared to other one-of-a-kind hobbies with six-figure entry-levels, even lame GA books are as common as dirt.

[Marvel 25th-migration]

I am going to be a little bit of the bad guy here..................but sorry guys and ladies, most books of the Bronze to modern age will never see the price range or the scarcity level of GA books. A S 300? thousands of them in high grade, so is X-men 266 so is Hulk 181, so is A S 238 keep going.... maybe a few exceptions like say for example Star Wars 1 35 cent variant, buty not much there.

 

Just this year alone you know how many time I have seen Wolverine 1 (the limited series) pop up as a 9.8? I cannot even count. Yes the book is in high demand and has seen good numbers come in , but id still rather save my money for a really nice GA book (like a later issue of More Fun -Spectre cover lets say).

 

Hmm...I'd rather have the Wolverine. Actually, I'd rather have any issue of Wolverine, or X-Men, or Rom, or Peter Porker, the Spectacular Spider-Ham than any issue of More Fun. But thanks for the tip. Won't make money on my comics? Got it.

[He11blazer]

I am going to be a little bit of the bad guy here..................but sorry guys and ladies, most books of the Bronze to modern age will never see the price range or the scarcity level of GA books. A S 300? thousands of them in high grade, so is X-men 266 so is Hulk 181, so is A S 238 keep going.... maybe a few exceptions like say for example Star Wars 1 35 cent variant, buty not much there.

 

Just this year alone you know how many time I have seen Wolverine 1 (the limited series) pop up as a 9.8? I cannot even count. Yes the book is in high demand and has seen good numbers come in , but id still rather save my money for a really nice GA book (like a later issue of More Fun -Spectre cover lets say).

 

Scarcity, value and investment potential have nothing to do with how important a key is. I'm sure you know that, but your post was rather stuck on that point!

 

 

[Schmakt]

overheard some conversations at the Charlotte show today about how UXM 266 was getting ready to sky-rocket.

 

I also saw two copies of Caliber Presents #1, which seemed a little odd... One was priced at $40 and was probably VF- and the other was $60 and probably around VF+...

 

I was tempted but just didn't feel like pulling the trigger on them.

 

New Mutants 98 had some buzz too... Is that the one where the mail him back to Tolliver? That mess was funny...

 

What else... only a single Albedo #2... CGC 8.5 priced at 650, but he would have taken 500. If I'd had 500 to give, I definitely would have given it to upgrade my current copy. No TMNT 1, but a few copies of 2-4... I probably should have snapped up the 3&4 CGC 9.6, but that would have been my entire budget for the show, and I wanted stuff I could actually read.

 

Obviously there were plenty of ASM 300's, but I didn't hear that much talk about them. Not sure they were moving...

 

I think I only saw one Primer #2 and a couple of Grendels, but there seemed to be little to no interest in those as well. Which sucks, b/c they're awesome.

 

Bone... Cry for Dawn... nowhere in sight.

 

That's about all I can recall right now, and my laundry's done, so I'm off to bed.

[Topnotchman]

I have some Looney Tunes from the 40's I'm getting ready to post to Ebay for under $5.00, does that exicte anyone? Otherwise I do have a 9.8 Star Wars 107 which I'm excited about.

[Yannis]

For Marvel 25th and Joe Collector, I agree on when you say getting what you like and actually I have the whole run of ROM. Too bad Marvel doesnt own the rights to the character , id love to see him come back. Never forget the Galactus story, invading Galador. But I like comics in general. Will not stop buying new stuff because they wont be worth money. But when it comes to keys its obvious what periods rule.

[Schmakt]

but what you're saying, Yannis, seems to equate a comic's value with its ability to be key. I think we were trying to avoid value and rarity as factors in determining "keyness"

[joe_collector]

But when it comes to keys its obvious what periods rule.

 

Yes, and right now it's Silver.

[Kraken's Lair]

overheard some conversations at the Charlotte show today about how UXM 266 was getting ready to sky-rocket.

 

I also saw two copies of Caliber Presents #1, which seemed a little odd... One was priced at $40 and was probably VF- and the other was $60 and probably around VF+...

 

I was tempted but just didn't feel like pulling the trigger on them.

 

New Mutants 98 had some buzz too... Is that the one where the mail him back to Tolliver? That mess was funny...

 

 

That's interesting. It seemed like UXM 266 was really cooling off lately, but maybe just on ebay. I think Gambit is a character with a lot of love outside of the X-Men fanbase, which will always keep that book popular. Same with Deadpool to some degree. I actaully think New Mutants 98 is going to take off quicker and higher over the next few months though. I think X-Force #2 is his second appearance and should get more love. I guess it probably doesn't because there's about a million of those in NM condition and it features Liefeld writing. I never minded his artwork too much and I think he has an incredible sense of character design (e.g. creating Deadpool, Cable, Domino, Youngblood, etc.), but his writing is....not good.

 

Caliber Presents #1 and the first printings of the entire Caliber Crow mini are undervalued keys of the Copper Age, IMHO. The Crow is an original character concept that can be used to write an infinite number of comics and movies. But the original series by J. O'Barr has a cultish following. Most of the people who bought those books new will never give them up willingly, which makes it tough for newer fans of the character to find decent copies anywhere. Even the Tundra reprints of the first series (and their first printing of the conclusion to the story) are somewhat expensive.

[Yannis]

But arent key issues historically, what take a bump up in price?

Keys- Amazing 300- an expensive book for an 80s book. Transformers 80- a key and not cheap, Same for the 70s- Key issues like Det 400, X-men 94, not cheap. Key and value kind of go together I believe. Not saying it is for all books, but a Key for some books means money as well.