Is it time for CGC board marketplace sales to be reported to GPA?

[VintageComics]

while we are talking about reporting sales, I think it is time that marketplace sales should be reported to the IRS.

 

Does that include cash sales?

 

[VintageComics]

Joseph, thanks for eloquently stating what I have been trying to get across...bull in a china shop that I am.

 

[Dale Roberts]

absolutely.....Some board sellers might be slightly affected if they were "rendering unto Caesar"....

[VintageComics]

absolutely.....Some board sellers might be slightly affected if they were "rendering unto Caesar"....

 

Greggy is Caesar. All hail Caesar!

 

[Murph]

what makes this forum's sales any more valid or reportable then any other comic book message board's out there?

 

What makes them less valid than any auction house, consignment site or individual dealer? Sales are sales.

 

So every message board should have its' sales quoted via GPA..? Sales are sales, right?

Another point to keep in mind, GPA advertises itself on their main page as "GPA for CGC Comics is the world's first analysis and reporting service for online auction and dealer comic book sales".

 

As is often stated these days, the definition of "dealer" in the current world of comics is pretty unclear. George doesn't seem to require that comics be your main source of income to be able to submit data, or he wouldn't have invited esquire. I have a website, and have had it for longer than Mark has had his. Does that make me a dealer?

 

To me, it's all semantics. As a subscriber to GPA, I would like to be aware of ALL sales of a comic that I'm looking up, not just those done by an auction house or "dealer".

 

Then shouldn't you contact George and ask him to report sales as a dealer? If he says no, then you have your answer as to whether GPA views you as a dealer. Either they view you as a dealer or they don't, pretty straightforward.

[nearmint]

absolutely.....Some board sellers might be slightly affected if they were "rendering unto Caesar"....

 

Greggy is Caesar. All hail Caesar!

 

 

Do I have to render unto Greggy?

[Aces]

absolutely.....Some board sellers might be slightly affected if they were "rendering unto Caesar"....

 

Greggy is Caesar. All hail Caesar!

 

 

Do I have to render unto Greggy?

 

Better that than greggy rear-endering unto you.

[greggy]

absolutely.....Some board sellers might be slightly affected if they were "rendering unto Caesar"....

 

Greggy is Caesar. All hail Caesar!

 

 

Do I have to render unto Greggy?

 

Better that than greggy rear-endering unto you.

[Aces]

absolutely.....Some board sellers might be slightly affected if they were "rendering unto Caesar"....

 

Greggy is Caesar. All hail Caesar!

 

 

Do I have to render unto Greggy?

 

Better that than greggy rear-endering unto you.

[fantastic_four]

Then shouldn't you contact George and ask him to report sales as a dealer? If he says no, then you have your answer as to whether GPA views you as a dealer. Either they view you as a dealer or they don't, pretty straightforward.

 

That does sound like the best next step, Nearmint. Ask him what criteria he uses to determine who he'll collect from.

[rza808]

Just record the cert # with sell price and date of sale should cut down on false reportings imo. It should at least set off warning flags when same book is sold 4 times in one year

[nearmint]

Then shouldn't you contact George and ask him to report sales as a dealer? If he says no, then you have your answer as to whether GPA views you as a dealer. Either they view you as a dealer or they don't, pretty straightforward.

 

That does sound like the best next step, Nearmint. Ask him what criteria he uses to determine who he'll collect from.

 

Sounds reasonable. I'll email him. (thumbs u

[gpanalysis]

Hi guys, just finished reading through all the posts (you guys type much faster than I read !)

 

Bottom line, we would only consider including sales from the forum if there was some mechanism (on the forum) to at least verify buyer X purchased from seller Y. In other words, some way to know that nearmint (for example) logged into some page in the forum and listed his book, and greggy (for example) clicking "something" that allowed the system to show he purchased it. It would require then at the least some further way of proving the transaction went through (i.e. money exchanged)

 

I understand the "but how do you verify other dealers/venues" argument, but the reality is that (as some have mentioned here) there are ways to check on sales (even on eBay, which is a whole other animal in itself). Also, we are dealing with single sources of information - this means any funny business will potentially expose that dealer/auction site (as opposed to keeping tabs on hundreds of individual buyers and sellers). Verifying each user on the forum and each sale, from our end, without some logging/online evidence of the sale is just not possible - at the moment, anyone can just list a book here and subsequently post that they'd just sold it via PM. Hardly any effort required and certainly at no cost to the individual.

 

It would require some kind of "forum exchange" in place that would allow a buyer and seller to transact with some evidence being captured of the purchase. GPA would then interact with this "forum exchange" and not individual sellers/buyers.

 

- George.

[greggy]

[burntboy]

My point, and I think you know this, is that the sales from the marketplace would be no more miniscule than Mark's, Rob's, Steve's, or Bill's, and George finds their sales significant enough to include, so why not ours?

 

I don't see the difference between our sales and those of "long time dealers". Sales are sales, and each and every one is as valuable as any other, regardless of how long the seller has been selling.

 

I'm sure you know they have a proven track record as dealers as well. Most here are not nor do have any record to speak of to back up those sales. That's the difference and it's key. We don't merit inclusion because we aren't dealers despite some pretending to be at times. There are slabs sold nationwide everyday that aren't reported to GPA for exactly the same reason. Why you and others think you merit special attention is mind numbing and frankly maybe you all need a break from this Forum to gather some perspective...

 

Jim

 

Perhaps the most mind-numbingly, condescending paragraph of all time on these boards - just who TF do you think you are???

[JLA_ALL_THE_WAY]

Yeah, I'll second that.

 

GPA tracks what, raw books? Duh no.

 

And where will you find a high concentrated amount of CGC buying/selling?

 

And how long has this forum been going; how many 'dealers' have been here "conducting business" since the get-go?

 

Someone here does indeed need a break from these forums...

 

Rick

 

 

[awe4one]

Perhaps the most mind-numbingly, condescending paragraph of all time on these boards - just who TF do you think you are???

 

Currently the only Marketplace sellers who have a consistent and proven week end and week out CGC sales record on this Forum are very very few indeed. In fact the only ones I can think of are namisgr and, maybe, FT and r1970d. Everyone else either sells raw or slabs on occasion if at all. Compare that with the dealers mentioned by nearmint and we don't rate. You may not like it but it's true nonetheless. At the end of the day this is still an anonymous message board with all the pitfalls that entails. Nothing has changed that fact despite a couple of old-timers getting together for an annual comics klatch...

 

Jim

 

 

[comicwiz]

Hi guys, just finished reading through all the posts (you guys type much faster than I read !)

 

Bottom line, we would only consider including sales from the forum if there was some mechanism (on the forum) to at least verify buyer X purchased from seller Y. In other words, some way to know that nearmint (for example) logged into some page in the forum and listed his book, and greggy (for example) clicking "something" that allowed the system to show he purchased it. It would require then at the least some further way of proving the transaction went through (i.e. money exchanged)

 

I understand the "but how do you verify other dealers/venues" argument, but the reality is that (as some have mentioned here) there are ways to check on sales (even on eBay, which is a whole other animal in itself). Also, we are dealing with single sources of information - this means any funny business will potentially expose that dealer/auction site (as opposed to keeping tabs on hundreds of individual buyers and sellers). Verifying each user on the forum and each sale, from our end, without some logging/online evidence of the sale is just not possible - at the moment, anyone can just list a book here and subsequently post that they'd just sold it via PM. Hardly any effort required and certainly at no cost to the individual.

 

It would require some kind of "forum exchange" in place that would allow a buyer and seller to transact with some evidence being captured of the purchase. GPA would then interact with this "forum exchange" and not individual sellers/buyers.

 

- George.

 

Thanks George. I had some thought to consider, and completely understand if you think they are way out there. Here goes. Provided of course you are will to work with email submissions, I wondered if working with some of the PayPal tools can meet some of your requirements?

 

As it is, most sales that go through the forum are PayPal only. I've only had one person mail me a cheque. In my own case, I either ask buyers to send payment to my PayPal ID or send them a payment request. If it is a payment request, I could make sure to include slab details required on your end (ie. title, issue, grade, etc.) in the description.

 

Would a PDF of the transaction summary/details do? In my mind, the date of sale portion would be more exacting with a PayPal detail/summary than an auction result, and more full proof because there is always a possibility the buyer doesn't fall through with the purchase and unless you are tracking relists and/or feedback of both buyer and seller, you might never know. I'm thinking that one way to validate the legitimacy of PayPal summary/details is by using the unique transaction ID and the url captured in the PDF (usually captured at the top of the page like a printout) which would show a valid payment session, and of course be pointing to the PayPal domain. This said, I would be inclined to blur out a customers address from the summary/details:

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Hi guys, just finished reading through all the posts (you guys type much faster than I read !)

 

Bottom line, we would only consider including sales from the forum if there was some mechanism (on the forum) to at least verify buyer X purchased from seller Y. In other words, some way to know that nearmint (for example) logged into some page in the forum and listed his book, and greggy (for example) clicking "something" that allowed the system to show he purchased it. It would require then at the least some further way of proving the transaction went through (i.e. money exchanged)

 

I understand the "but how do you verify other dealers/venues" argument, but the reality is that (as some have mentioned here) there are ways to check on sales (even on eBay, which is a whole other animal in itself). Also, we are dealing with single sources of information - this means any funny business will potentially expose that dealer/auction site (as opposed to keeping tabs on hundreds of individual buyers and sellers). Verifying each user on the forum and each sale, from our end, without some logging/online evidence of the sale is just not possible - at the moment, anyone can just list a book here and subsequently post that they'd just sold it via PM. Hardly any effort required and certainly at no cost to the individual.

 

It would require some kind of "forum exchange" in place that would allow a buyer and seller to transact with some evidence being captured of the purchase. GPA would then interact with this "forum exchange" and not individual sellers/buyers.

 

- George.

 

Thanks George. I had some thought to consider, and completely understand if you think they are way out there. Here goes. Provided of course you are will to work with email submissions, I wondered if working with some of the PayPal tools can meet some of your requirements?

 

As it is, most sales that go through the forum are PayPal only. I've only had one person mail me a cheque. In my own case, I either ask buyers to send payment to my PayPal ID or send them a payment request. If it is a payment request, I could make sure to include slab details required on your end (ie. title, issue, grade, etc.) in the description.

 

Would a PDF of the transaction summary/details do? In my mind, the date of sale portion would be more exacting with a PayPal detail/summary than an auction result, and more full proof because there is always a possibility the buyer doesn't fall through with the purchase and unless you are tracking relists and/or feedback of both buyer and seller, you might never know. I'm thinking that one way to validate the legitimacy of PayPal summary/details is by using the unique transaction ID and the url captured in the PDF (usually captured at the top of the page like a printout) which would show a valid payment session, and of course be pointing to the PayPal domain. This said, I would be inclined to blur out a customers address from the summary/details:

 

Really interesting stuff here. I think that it is worth considering for GPA to include the sales here.

 

And think how well it will help with the lowball offers accepted on books !

[G.A.tor]

hello all...

 

I have communicated with George, albeit briefly in the past, because while I generally don't personally use GPA (I find it too limited with respects to Golden Age, and that is all I buy and sell), I Thought GPA could benefit from some of the purchases and sales that I make during the year(s)...

 

Perfect example, during my recent selling thread, do you know how many PM's I got saying "I based my offer on GPA..." or "there are no sales data on GPA, how are you arriving at your price" and I would have to counter that GPA is "not accurate to current market" or "outdated info " or "sales are non existent on GPA, but I have bought and sold this book for "$X", etc so I know what I paid for it, or what I would pay for it " or "info is too limited" ...etc... if you pay attention to the market, you don't need GPA sales data from a Heritage sale 4 years ago, to know what a book "should" be currently selling for....but I digress...

 

that said, I have bought and sold several million dollars of comics over the past few years, and if someone thinks that my purchases or sales would not benefit GPA , then so be it...I offered to Report to George, but he declined (I guess for the logistics reasons), but the bottom line is that Nearmint is correct, there are some serious sales that happen on this board, that would benefit future buyers and sellers...so, just pay attention to the board (and to ebay, and heritage, and comic link, etc), and don't worry if it is reported on GPA or not, I don't, and if you goto sell a book and someone won't buy it because there is no GPA data, then that is life (thumbs u

 

gator