And the reserves are in!

[RonsonLighter-migration]

I am tired of the "dele-dribble". Dele you are the "aniti-KK". We pretty much know what you are going to say before you say it so why bother. As far as I can tell you've been buying into the downturn. So either you don't believe your own dribble or you have an agenda or a problem.

 

I think the auction went about how I thought it would - there were some strong prices, some not so strong prices and some Reserve Not Mets. I'm not really sure what some of you guys were expecting to see this early in the economic downturn. Main Street only really took notice of this financial crisis around September when it really started hitting the fan, and we're all of 2 1/2 months into a recession in this country with the possibility/probability that things are going to get a lot worse and last a very long time before it's all over. It may take a while longer for behavioral patterns to change in our lower-end hobby, but that doesn't mean it's immune to what's going on.

 

So, comic OA survived the first round without much damage. Great, but the fight has hardly begun. Also, these high prices are a two-sided coin - somebody was selling at those prices as well as buying. We will only know in hindsight who got the better of whom.

 

Anyhow, I have a pretty substantial OA collection and would be happy to see prices at least maintain their value. I just don't think it's going to happen given how I see the future unfolding. But, heck, if this market is as strong as you guys say, feel free to throw some of those "record" offers my way (seriously)! Anyway, good luck to everyone. And, don't worry too much - if I end up being right, you can always petition the government to bail out your losses.

 

Deli is a professional though. He trades for a living and can spot arbitrage opportunities that we common people can not. It must be tough being so smart. :

[clemso]

Did anyone see what did the Kirby FF 5 page, - $38,837

 

Avengers 1 page - $34,000 range (yes, we know, insane)

 

and the X-men 1 pages go for? pg 14 - $10,157 and page 16 $18,522

 

Cheers, Clem

 

 

 

Joseph

 

When did Avengers 1 pages get so expensive? 7 years ago, I bought 3 good Avengers 1 pages for

$2700 each. $34,000 for that page is silly.

 

Stephen

 

I was fully expecting that Avengers end page to be up there. As a stand alone panel page it has everything that you would want to represent the first appearance of the Avengers including that last panel which i believe is the only panel in the entire book with all 5 original Avengers in it (yep check it out), plus you also have Loki and they also name the Avengers. Yes 7 years ago Avengers 1 pages were cheap and I past up on quite a few then myself, but i don't believe that this page was ever made available during that time, not until it recently appeared on ebay and then Heritage. So it had a lot going for it and the price reflects that. Some of the lesser X-men 1 pages performed badly imho and the X-men 5 page was a steal for Kirby and content.

 

Clem....

[NelsonAI]

A lot of nice pieces. I was interested in the Batman 56 Monney art until I saw the reserve. It wasn't something I needed to chase.

 

Congratulations to all buyers and sellers.

 

Cheers!

Nelson

 

 

[dem1138]

Did anyone see what did the Kirby FF 5 page, - $38,837

 

Avengers 1 page - $34,000 range (yes, we know, insane)

 

and the X-men 1 pages go for? pg 14 - $10,157 and page 16 $18,522

 

Cheers, Clem

 

 

 

Joseph

 

When did Avengers 1 pages get so expensive? 7 years ago, I bought 3 good Avengers 1 pages for

$2700 each. $34,000 for that page is silly.

 

Stephen

 

I was fully expecting that Avengers end page to be up there. As a stand alone panel page it has everything that you would want to represent the first appearance of the Avengers including that last panel which i believe is the only panel in the entire book with all 5 original Avengers in it (yep check it out), plus you also have Loki and they also name the Avengers. Yes 7 years ago Avengers 1 pages were cheap and I past up on quite a few then myself, but i don't believe that this page was ever made available during that time, not until it recently appeared on ebay and then Heritage. So it had a lot going for it and the price reflects that. Some of the lesser X-men 1 pages performed badly imho and the X-men 5 page was a steal for Kirby and content.

 

Clem....

 

I agree, that X-Men #5 page was the steal of the OA auction!

[Mighty Hal]

While I agree that delekkerste is the anti-KK, I enjoy his comments. He provides some strong, intelligent discussion on the board -- and thanks for that.

[westform]

Yes, I love hearing about the Fine art market and Derivative financing on this Comic art discussion board....

[KreeSkrull99]

Yes, I love hearing about the Fine art market and Derivative financing on this Comic art discussion board....

 

 

KK started this finance talk on these boards

 

and now that is all we talk

 

He dragged us into his mud

 

[delekkerste]

I will gladly help you convert your Daredevil pages back into cash if you're really that worried about the market. But then, you're not really looking to get out. You're looking for record prices on your stuff.

 

Judge people by their actions, not their words.

 

'judge people by their actions not their words'...... how true. I have said for years that this hobby has a 'funny' element who continually talk down the hobby yet at the same time continue to buy. Some of the loudest complainers are the biggest buyers... it has always been thus. If someone really thought the OA market was heading down then they would sell. Period. I don't care how rich you are or think you are, no one likes to throw away money. The rest is just talky talk.

 

I am tired of the "dele-dribble". Dele you are the "aniti-KK". We pretty much know what you are going to say before you say it so why bother. As far as I can tell you've been buying into the downturn. So either you don't believe your own dribble or you have an agenda or a problem.

 

Why should I be worried about the OA market? The people who should be worried are those who are in over their heads, who are treating this stuff as an investment or store of value, or who are looking to resell this stuff at a profit. I collect OA as just one of many sidelines, using only discretionary funds that I can afford to lose completely. What do you do, gentlemen?

 

I'm not trying to talk down the market, I'm just engaging in some spirited debate with my fellow collectors. Am I still buying? Sure, I'm happy to still buy art, as long as it is at fair and realistic prices. But, why let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory?

[stinkininkin]

I will gladly help you convert your Daredevil pages back into cash if you're really that worried about the market. But then, you're not really looking to get out. You're looking for record prices on your stuff.

 

Judge people by their actions, not their words.

 

'judge people by their actions not their words'...... how true. I have said for years that this hobby has a 'funny' element who continually talk down the hobby yet at the same time continue to buy. Some of the loudest complainers are the biggest buyers... it has always been thus. If someone really thought the OA market was heading down then they would sell. Period. I don't care how rich you are or think you are, no one likes to throw away money. The rest is just talky talk.

 

I am tired of the "dele-dribble". Dele you are the "aniti-KK". We pretty much know what you are going to say before you say it so why bother. As far as I can tell you've been buying into the downturn. So either you don't believe your own dribble or you have an agenda or a problem.

 

Why should I be worried about the OA market? The people who should be worried are those who are in over their heads, who are treating this stuff as an investment or store of value, or who are looking to resell this stuff at a profit. I collect OA as just one of many sidelines, using only discretionary funds that I can afford to lose completely. What do you do, gentlemen?

 

I'm not trying to talk down the market, I'm just engaging in some spirited debate with my fellow collectors. Am I still buying? Sure, I'm happy to still buy art, as long as it is at fair and realistic prices. But, why let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory?

 

Gene, I don't know you and don't know if you have some sort of history with some of the posters here, but please continue to post your observations and opinions! I really want to hear all sides, and as long as there are no agenda's being forwarded (by any side) and there are relevant facts to back up ones position, I really enjoy hearing what people think, whether the views are popular of unpopular, bull or bear!

[westform]

Yes, and he is now banned from these boards.... I am all in favor of banning any poster who continues to throw off topic post after off topic post onto these threads!!!

 

Yes, I love hearing about the Fine art market and Derivative financing on this Comic art discussion board....

 

 

KK started this finance talk on these boards

 

and now that is all we talk

 

He dragged us into his mud

[Nexus]

When it comes to financial matters, I agree with Gene that he's the smartest guy in the room (). But even the smartest guy in the room can't tell the future with absolute certainty. For as long as I've been a member of this board, Gene has been the yin to KK's yang. So whether it's "doom-and-gloom" or "pie-in-the-sky", I've pretty much come to tune it all out. For example...how much does the fine art world have to do with our hobby? I have no idea. I just know that KK used to post stories about big sales in fine art...and Gene would dismiss them as irrelevant to our hobby. Now that fine art is tanking, there's a correlation. KK, meanwhile, is conspicuously absent. Neither side can have it both ways.

 

I did a quick search of Gene's posts (and only because it's impossible to search KK's due to all his aliases) and found this one from 2003:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=48&Number=191689&Searchpage=9&Main=9882&Words=delekkerste&topic=0&Search=true#Post191689

 

So...apparently the ASM #155 cover was available in 2003 for $12.5K. I do believe it sold for quite a bit more than that recently (someone feel free to provide a figure). So while Gene's points are well-formed and logical, the OA market still chugged ahead. In my short time in this hobby, it has become more and more clear to me that logic and reason seldom come into play when it comes to values. And that conventional financial wisdom doesn't always apply.

 

From a knucklehead's perspective (mine), it looks like the truth is somewhere in the middle. We are headed into recession and it's reasonable to ASSUME our hobby will be affected. How severely? Who knows? If the worst case scenario comes to pass and OA crashes and its only value is as kindling, I don't believe I'll be any better off if I had cash instead (unless it burns better).

 

Having said all that, I've definitely enjoyed, and learned from, the majority of Gene's posts (unlike KK who was/is entirely one-note). Keep on keepin' on, Gene.

 

 

[Artemaria]

Gene,. . . please continue to post your observations and opinions! I really want to hear all sides, and as long as there are no agenda's being forwarded (by any side) and there are relevant facts to back up ones position, I really enjoy hearing what people think, whether the views are popular of unpopular, bull or bear!

 

I agree with Scott and Hal.

 

Once fear of an idea is turned into censorship, then these boards, as a vehicle for free thought and honest discussion begin to lose their integrity.

 

There are a great many posts that I have read on these boards with which I strongly disagree. But I would defend to the very bitter end, everyone's right to voice their ideas whether I agree with them or not.

 

On these boards, or anywhere else.

 

Best regards.

 

- A

[RonsonLighter-migration]

I just know that KK used to post stories about big sales in fine art...and Gene would dismiss them as irrelevant to our hobby. Now that fine art is tanking, there's a correlation. KK, meanwhile, is conspicuously absent. Neither side can have it both ways.

 

 

The above is a very good point.

 

 

Also,...........there is no denying that betwween the two [KK & Gene]...

 

one has been right,..and one has been wrong.

 

That much should be noted.

[Frederic9494]

I just know that KK used to post stories about big sales in fine art...and Gene would dismiss them as irrelevant to our hobby. Now that fine art is tanking, there's a correlation. KK, meanwhile, is conspicuously absent. Neither side can have it both ways.

 

 

The above is a very good point.

 

 

Also,...........there is no denying that betwween the two [KK & Gene]...

 

one has been right,..and one has been wrong.

 

That much should be noted.

 

KK is in the house ?

[westform]

In all seriousness; well, as serious as I take anything in this hobby, what I would really like to hear about from Gene (and anyone else in this forum) is why he has collected certain pieces, why he likes certain pieces more or less than others, why a piece at Heritage by the same artist is better or worse from his perspective, how he displays his art, or not, and why, (pics would be great too), what got him into comic/illustration art and why he is still interested, has he ever been ripped off in a deal, is there a seller on ebay who he would avoid because they once sold him a forgery or were just downright rude, does he ever sell pieces, if so was it really hard shipping to Germany, does he buy mostly from dealers, or auctions, or other collectors, has he ever bought a piece that is way outside his collecting parameters but it just spoke to him or it even made him take up a new area of collecting, does he think that collecting panel pages is actually preferable to collecting covers or splashes because there can be more art on the page, does acrylic collect more dust than oil and therefore needs special care and conservation, has he ever had a piece restored and what were the results, is there a piece in someone's CAF gallery that is just kickass but he would never buy, is good girl art really good, when did Boris's work turn from great to good, putting together a gathering on the East coast of fellow whakos, won't be going to San Diego because it has gotten too big, but I am sick of hearing about the financial markets and the fine art market and any other market because this is still a hobby to me that I enjoy for the sake of enjoyment and I actually peruse these threads to meet up with fellow whackos and talk about all of the above.... if I want the latter I read the Wall street Journal or turn on the financial pundits. This is NOT censorship, this is simply having the respect to stick to the intent of these boards. In the spirit of the olive branch, YES, Gene is quite eloquent and most likely has a ton to say about this hobby in which I'm sure he enjoys the fruits; all I'm saying is I'd like to hear about that even if every answer disagrees with everything I think about the hobby- but the constant market lessons are just plain hard on the ears (eyes).

[RonsonLighter-migration]

In all seriousness; well, as serious as I take anything in this hobby, what I would really like to hear about from Gene (and anyone else in this forum) is why he has collected certain pieces, why he likes certain pieces more or less than others, why a piece at Heritage by the same artist is better or worse from his perspective, how he displays his art, or not, and why, (pics would be great too), what got him into comic/illustration art and why he is still interested, has he ever been ripped off in a deal, is there a seller on ebay who he would avoid because they once sold him a forgery or were just downright rude, does he ever sell pieces, if so was it really hard shipping to Germany, does he buy mostly from dealers, or auctions, or other collectors, has he ever bought a piece that is way outside his collecting parameters but it just spoke to him or it even made him take up a new area of collecting, does he think that collecting panel pages is actually preferable to collecting covers or splashes because there can be more art on the page, does acrylic collect more dust than oil and therefore needs special care and conservation, has he ever had a piece restored and what were the results, is there a piece in someone's CAF gallery that is just kickass but he would never buy, is good girl art really good, when did Boris's work turn from great to good, putting together a gathering on the East coast of fellow whakos, won't be going to San Diego because it has gotten too big, but I am sick of hearing about the financial markets and the fine art market and any other market because this is still a hobby to me that I enjoy for the sake of enjoyment and I actually peruse these threads to meet up with fellow whackos and talk about all of the above.... if I want the latter I read the Wall street Journal or turn on the financial pundits. This is NOT censorship, this is simply having the respect to stick to the intent of these boards. In the spirit of the olive branch, YES, Gene is quite eloquent and most likely has a ton to say about this hobby in which I'm sure he enjoys the fruits; all I'm saying is I'd like to hear about that even if every answer disagrees with everything I think about the hobby- but the constant market lessons are just plain hard on the ears (eyes).

 

Sounds like censhorship to me.

[pinupcartoonguy]

I think it's naive to think that the state of the economy won't have an effect on our little hobby. I know for myself I'm less willing to spend money on discretionary items. At the same time, in recent weeks, I've been offered more art at a lower price than ever before.

 

Alex

[RonsonLighter-migration]

I think it's naive to think that the state of the economy won't have an effect on our little hobby. I know for myself I'm less willing to spend money on discretionary items. At the same time, in recent weeks, I've been offered more art at a lower price than ever before.

 

Alex

 

I agree that there will be AN affect. That said, the best of the best will always retain their value and possibly even grow in value.

[malvin]

Things going up in a recession? That is KRAZY!

 

I think it's naive to think that the state of the economy won't have an effect on our little hobby. I know for myself I'm less willing to spend money on discretionary items. At the same time, in recent weeks, I've been offered more art at a lower price than ever before.

 

Alex

 

I agree that there will be AN affect. That said, the best of the best will always retain their value and possibly even grow in value.

[RonsonLighter-migration]

Things going up in a recession? That is KRAZY!

 

I think it's naive to think that the state of the economy won't have an effect on our little hobby. I know for myself I'm less willing to spend money on discretionary items. At the same time, in recent weeks, I've been offered more art at a lower price than ever before.

 

Alex

 

I agree that there will be AN affect. That said, the best of the best will always retain their value and possibly even grow in value.

 

I dont think this is even close to 'the best of the best'.

 

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/92010-Norman-Mingo-Mad-30-Cover-Painting-Original_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ28266QQihZ016QQitemZ260306907784QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW