Why are we charged % FMV?

[VintageComics]

2.5% is the walk through price.

 

I'm guess they assume that people will only use walkthrough for bigger books and not a VG copy of GI Joe #17. They charge a minimum price of $89 and a max of $1000 for walkthrough and a sliding scale of 2.5% in between.

 

I don't know why it's so tough to understand...

 

*they need to turn some sort of a profit to stay in business

*they came up with a fee scale that seems fair for all values of books

*they haven't changed their prices for as long as I can remember...if ever.

 

Personally I think they are cheap relative to the service you get.

 

Why do people complain?

 

I'm not defending CGC, I'm defending any entrepreneur who is classy and ballsy enough to start a business out of nothing, charge a fair price and then take a beating because they make a fair buck after investing time and money into it at their own expense.

 

Seriously folks, would you rather pay more to grade your moderns and lesser $ books to subsidize the costs associated with the big $ books?

 

Would you rather people pay $100 to slab a $100,000 book and you pay $50-75 to slab your moderns?

 

In the end the company has to make their profit...wouldn't you rather they do it by destributing costs fairly?

 

R.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

The FMV always confused me as well.

Shouldn't the cost of slabbing the book be trhe same no matter what age or value of the book?

 

Isnt this their attempt to profit from the value of your book?

 

 

I couldn't have put it better myself.

the actual costs (fixed expense) are the same... it is the insurance costs that are the variables (thumbs u

 

 

Then charge a premium for those high dollar books that cost so much more to insure.

 

...but they do.

 

 

CGC should hire you as a PR man.

 

See my above post. I'm not defending CGC. I'm defending the businessman who risks everything to start and run a succesful business.

 

Obviously the model works, otherwise they wouldn't be in business for a decade.

 

[G.A.tor]

also, as someone that has submitted hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars of high value comics to cgc, I can tell you that they have never, not once, altered my FMV as far as fees go... meaning, they are not just arbitrarily increasing my stated FMV to garner more profit... I am sure if someone sent in an action 1 valued at , say $1000, then yes, CGC would recognize that it is 100x that value, and adjust accordingly so that it is properlly insured while in their possession...

 

so, while I definitely think they have more profit margin on higher $ books (just as a percent goes), I don't think it is any conspiratorial effort to "rip their customers off or overcharge them" (which is what I assume was being implied in the first place)

again, just my

[VintageComics]

Yeah Rick, but you know how to grade.

 

There are plenty of people who send in a book they feel is valued at $100 and the book ends up being graded and valued as a $10,000 book (or whatever figure you want to conjure up).

 

Those people might get an unexpected phone call that now they have to pay an additional few $100 in grading fees.

 

What a travesty.

 

 

Bottom line is CGC needs to turn a profit while providing a competetively priced service. People are free to speak with their wallets as that is the language that speaks the loudest to any business.

 

R.

 

 

[RedFury]

I understand that the variable portion of the cost is due to higher insurance costs for more valuable books. I trust CGC at their word when they tell us the graders do not know who's books they are grading. I am not accusing CGC of any impropriety. I like their service and I use it.

 

All I am doing is pointing out an obvious contradiction: CGC claims they are impartial, yet their fees are based on the grades they assign.

 

In any serious business venture, a policy like this would never stand up to scrutiny.

 

The simplest solution would be for CGC to separate the grading fees from the insurance fees, which would be variable based on the value of the book. The customer would determine the value of the book for the insurance purposes, just like any other insurance they would get.

[sterlingcomics]

I believe it has something to do with insurance cost.

 

Still, charging a percentage of FMV makes it difficult to defend their position that they are independent, impartial, third-party graders. If the fee being charged is related to the FMV of the book, and the FMV is determined by the grade, then impartiality is surely compromised.

 

I remember Steve mentioning your point about insurance. I also tend to agree to your second point. :thumbsup:

[DiceX]

I have no problem with the way they charge it, but I've always wondered...

 

-You send a book in thinking the value is, say, $5k. They grade it two spots higher, which makes the value $25k. They place the phone call to get you to pony up more money because you under graded it.

 

-You send the same book in, and the grade you guess values it at $25k. They grade it two spots lower, and the value is actually $5k. You get no phone call to tell you that you paid them too much money. You're just out the difference.

 

-Same thing can be said for a book with resto. You miss it and over-value the book, do you get any money back?

 

 

[kidcolt]

I agree with you, it makes no sense. I doubt that they are worried about hurting or damaging older more expensive books, I am sure its happened before. So if CGC hurts or damages a book they will payout whatever the book is valued at...right. If it is an insurance thing then why not work it out as a flat rate and incorpriate it in the slabbing fee. I understand that moderns slabbing would probably drop but the fee should be the same on everything graded.

 

It seems like they look at expensive books and think this guy owns this book so he can afford more. I understand the insurance arguement I just don't agree with it.

 

The FMV always confused me as well.

Shouldn't the cost of slabbing the book be trhe same no matter what age or value of the book?

 

Isnt this their attempt to profit from the value of your book?

[Ze-man]

I have no problem with the way they charge it, but I've always wondered...

 

-You send a book in thinking the value is, say, $5k. They grade it two spots higher, which makes the value $25k. They place the phone call to get you to pony up more money because you under graded it.

 

-You send the same book in, and the grade you guess values it at $25k. They grade it two spots lower, and the value is actually $5k. You get no phone call to tell you that you paid them too much money. You're just out the difference.

 

-Same thing can be said for a book with resto. You miss it and over-value the book, do you get any money back?

 

 

Well that's a kettle of fish isn't it? But how about all the people who complain that their books were undergraded then?

 

And books that come back with a purple label might not get a refund, but you do get a sympathy card signed by the staff.

 

Honestly, I think if we try hard enough we can poke holes in every aspect of CGC and all their policies. At the end of the day you are left with the decision if you are getting what you pay for and using their service or not.

 

On second thought , poke away. It might just lead to lower fees, better service and policies made public that come before, not after the next chit storm

 

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

I understand that the variable portion of the cost is due to higher insurance costs for more valuable books. I trust CGC at their word when they tell us the graders do not know who's books they are grading. I am not accusing CGC of any impropriety. I like their service and I use it.

 

All I am doing is pointing out an obvious contradiction: CGC claims they are impartial, yet their fees are based on the grades they assign.

 

In any serious business venture, a policy like this would never stand up to scrutiny.

 

The simplest solution would be for CGC to separate the grading fees from the insurance fees, which would be variable based on the value of the book. The customer would determine the value of the book for the insurance purposes, just like any other insurance they would get.

 

Except that the grader does not know who's books they are grading, nor do they deal in CGC comics (part of their contracts) so their knowledge of the sales market will likely be limited ei. They may not know what value a 0.2 difference will make for many books, or which books are currently hot and which are not...and before you guys all jump on me let me tell you that I have been in the auto industry as a technician my entire life (over 20 years) so I know cars well and worked with Mercedes Benz exclusively for over 10 years and yet could not for the life of me tell you what either their parts cost or what their cars cost. It's just not my job to know as I have too many other things in my head to fill it with useless info.

 

R.

 

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

 

 

They also have different tiers of employees grading different tiers of books meaning different pay structures.

 

 

More experienced employees grade the more experienced or higher end books...another cost to consider.

 

R.

 

 

 

 

[DiceX]

I have no problem with the way they charge it, but I've always wondered...

 

-You send a book in thinking the value is, say, $5k. They grade it two spots higher, which makes the value $25k. They place the phone call to get you to pony up more money because you under graded it.

 

-You send the same book in, and the grade you guess values it at $25k. They grade it two spots lower, and the value is actually $5k. You get no phone call to tell you that you paid them too much money. You're just out the difference.

 

-Same thing can be said for a book with resto. You miss it and over-value the book, do you get any money back?

 

 

Well that's a kettle of fish isn't it? But how about all the people who complain that their books were undergraded then?

 

And books that come back with a purple label might not get a refund, but you do get a sympathy card signed by the staff.

 

Honestly, I think if we try hard enough we can poke holes in every aspect of CGC and all their policies. At the end of the day you are left with the decision if you are getting what you pay for and using their service or not.

 

On second thought , poke away. It might just lead to lower fees, better service and policies made public that come before, not after the next chit storm

 

 

 

 

At that level, the buyer is forced to pay for the service by putting a value on it. The true value is totally dependent on the grade and the color of the label. That information is only available from the service itself. If everyone could guess that information, we wouldn't need the service.

 

When you guess the value too low, they want you to pay more money. I'll admit, they are pretty flexible because the value has to be a pretty big difference. And I can't think of ANYONE that would complain because they are getting a call from CGC telling them their book is worth a LOT more than they thought it was.

 

However, I, nor have I ever heard of anyone else, that has received the phone call that said the book was way overvalued, and here's your refund.

 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

Except that the grader does not know who's books they are grading, nor do they deal in CGC comics (part of their contracts) so their knowledge of the sales market will likely be limited

 

CGC employees may not be permitted to sell slabbed books......but they are permitted to collect them. I'm sure most employees have a pretty good grasp on 'market value'.

[TheShadowKnows]

I believe it has something to do with insurance cost.

 

Still, charging a percentage of FMV makes it difficult to defend their position that they are independent, impartial, third-party graders. If the fee being charged is related to the FMV of the book, and the FMV is determined by the grade, then impartiality is surely compromised.

when I asked CGC about this, it was insurance costs.... higher value books cost more to insure and require special handling/storage ,etc... seems pretty realistic to me...

 

you can't slab a Tec 27 for the same cost as a Deadpool 1 due to the insurance costs associated...so, you charge a % of value, to pay for that insurance

Correct me if im wrong.But didnt the cost of grading HG GA go up when they graded a Tec 27 for like 75 dollars?

Dennis

[conditionfreak]

I know that I have submitted a couple of books that came back graded much lower than I had graded them and valued them on the submission form, and when I called and asked them about the price difference between what I had already paid them for said books and what the actual charge should now be, I was told that I would receive a credit on my next submission/s.

 

I did not. Another phone call stated it was an oversight and I would receive a credit on my next submission.

 

I did not.

 

It was not a huge sum of money and I just "let it go". I guess a case could be made that if their insurance automatically covers a book coming in to their facility "valued" at whatever, then a devaluation at the end of the process wouldn't change the insurance cost while the book was in their facility for those weeks (or months), waiting for the final grading to be assigned.

 

I hate those PLOD. An AF#15 turned out to be trimmed, and I suspected it might. But there are so many slabbed books that look just like my AF #15 did, with the interior pages sticking out beyond the cover, that I thought (read: was hoping) that mine was not trimmed.

 

When someone gets that "call", that their book is graded higher than they thought upon submission, they (we) don't even blink about paying any additional fees. We just see dollar signs dancing in our heads. Or, a book better than our buddy has. Which is almost as sweet as the money.

 

I will say this to CGC. Cut the wait before we get our books back (hire some more help or break out the whip), and the prices will be much more tolerable and you will get more submissions, I assure you.

[Bomber-Bob]

-You send the same book in, and the grade you guess values it at $25k. They grade it two spots lower, and the value is actually $5k. You get no phone call to tell you that you paid them too much money. You're just out the difference.

 

-Same thing can be said for a book with resto. You miss it and over-value the book, do you get any money back?

 

 

Yes, you will get money back. Happened to me, got a Plod, and they practically refunded the whole amount.

I don't understand the complaining in this post. Why does it cost more for an oil change on my wife's Lexus then it does my Toyota ? Same concept. The charge

by CGC seems fair and reasonable to me. If I had some more to submit in this tier

I would gladly pay the fee.

[Ares]

Not the same.

You know going in to shop how much it will cost you.

You never get a call after telling you..

"oh we didnt know it was a Lexus so it will cost more to chaneg the oil"

 

The Slidding scale means we wont really know the final price.

 

a Tiered pricing scale would work better and give customers some security on pricing

 

 

[MrBedrock]

It costs you more to get an expensive comic book graded by CGC because that is what CGC charges to grade your expensive comic book.

[Dick Pontoon]

Not the same.

You know going in to shop how much it will cost you.

You never get a call after telling you..

"oh we didnt know it was a Lexus so it will cost more to chaneg the oil"

 

The Slidding scale means we wont really know the final price.

 

a Tired pricing scale would work better and give customers some security on pricing

 

 

I prefer an Energetic pricing scale myself.

[VintageComics]

It costs you more to get an expensive comic book graded by CGC because that is what CGC charges to grade your expensive comic book.

 

 

 

 

Do you have any comics that were graded by CGC?