Action 1 5.0 R on ebay looks real

[conditionfreak]

Ben and Det27Kid. Let's face it. This transaction stinks ethically. Ben made out better this way, and more power to him since that is what is important to him. But to try and justify it because the actual buyer found out through this forum instead of Ebay (so we are told), is at best lame.

 

The item was put up for auction on Ebay. Members of Ebay made genuine offers. Even if the highest bidder was not a "good bet" to finalize the transaction, Ebay was stiffed. The underbidders were stiffed. The comic book community and the Ebay community was stiffed.

 

An argument could be made in just about ANY situation, whereupon excuses and reasons can be put forth to justify whatever. But, it seems perfectly clear to me (and apparently many others) that this stinks. There is/was no stipulation in the original Ebay add that the auction may be ended early if a local or otherwise, other obtained, buyer came forward. That is sometimes done on Ebay auctions.

 

Bidders (highest or underbidders) by bidding, make a contractual agreement to complete their bidding contract. The underbidders have the RIGHT to purchase the item if the highest bidder fails to follow through. As the seller has the RIGHT to hold underbidders to their highest bid if the actual highest bidder does not follow through. This is in the Ebay agreement with sellers and bidders.

 

It is a breech of contract. Probably not enforceable by bidders (although if I had bid 2,000 and I was a lawyer, I just might take it to court and take my shot), but clearly actionable by Ebay. Ebay is not for advertising your wares for free, or for 35 cents. As much as it is done, it ain't for that.

 

Ya sold your soul, is a little harsh, for sure. But you did sell your Ebay integrity "destroyer". I know that your feedback is 100%, but I also know that one or more of your transactions were "pulled" and feedback handled accordingly in mutual agreement between you and the highest bidder. Does that indicate other "phone deals"?

 

 

[Transplant]

ben's thoughts are that since the boardie did approach him/see the book for sale via the boards, that why pay ebay the fees when ebay didn't create the sale for him ...and, ben wanted to "seal" the deal now, not later (waiting for NPB to filed, time, etc)... he sold the book because he was/is in need of the funds...so, time also played into the decision

Well, if I were Ebay, I wouldn't be happy about it but they've got the power to stop this type of thing from happening, so I'm not terribly worried about it. Chances are that if I was approached by a solid boardie with an offer to buy outside of Ebay, I might stop the auction. I realize that doing so risks alienating potential bidders, not just in that auction, but in others that I might have. I would have to balance that risk with the reward. No doubt I would be upset if I was the high bidder or even the underbidder planning a snipe, but the auction ending early is a risk you deal with on Ebay. But is it really different from some LCS owner who has a book on their wall and on Ebay at the same time? The LCS guy might be inclined to take cash on the spot without fees rather than wait for the auction to end.

 

It tends to leave a bad taste in people's mouth around here when an auction is ended early for sale outside Ebay, so I understand the POV of the detractors. Part of the problem stems from his wonderful Internet personality and the way he has presented himself here. While I accept his apologies for the crass way he behaved earlier, it's hard for me to forget and give him the benefit of the doubt on anything going forward. Hopefully, I've been balanced in what I wrote above as I don't feel like going back to read and edit. For that matter, if you've read all of this, that a few minutes of your life you'll never get back either.

[G.A.tor]

Ben and Det27Kid. Let's face it. This transaction stinks ethically. Ben made out better this way, and more power to him since that is what is important to him. But to try and justify it because the actual buyer found out through this forum instead of Ebay (so we are told), is at best lame.

 

The item was put up for auction on Ebay. Members of Ebay made genuine offers. Even if the highest bidder was not a "good bet" to finalize the transaction, Ebay was stiffed. The underbidders were stiffed. The comic book community and the Ebay community was stiffed.

 

An argument could be made in just about ANY situation, whereupon excuses and reasons can be put forth to justify whatever. But, it seems perfectly clear to me (and apparently many others) that this stinks. There is/was no stipulation in the original Ebay add that the auction may be ended early if a local or otherwise, other obtained, buyer came forward. That is sometimes done on Ebay auctions.

 

Bidders (highest or underbidders) by bidding, make a contractual agreement to complete their bidding contract. The underbidders have the RIGHT to purchase the item if the highest bidder fails to follow through. As the seller has the RIGHT to hold underbidders to their highest bid if the actual highest bidder does not follow through. This is in the Ebay agreement with sellers and bidders.

 

It is a breech of contract. Probably not enforceable by bidders (although if I had bid 2,000 and I was a lawyer, I just might take it to court and take my shot), but clearly actionable by Ebay. Ebay is not for advertising your wares for free, or for 35 cents. As much as it is done, it ain't for that.

 

Ya sold your soul, is a little harsh, for sure. But you did sell your Ebay integrity "destroyer". I know that your feedback is 100%, but I also know that one or more of your transactions were "pulled" and feedback handled accordingly in mutual agreement between you and the highest bidder. Does that indicate other "phone deals"?

 

ok, even though I have retired from this thread, since my name was brought up, I will respond for me... fair enough...everyone is entitled to their opinion (thumbs u

[PokerKid]

A lot more concern for eBay on these boards than I have seen in the past.

 

I know this is a touchy subject as I have seen very well respected board members raked over the coals for changing their mind about selling a book on eBay. (People here don't seem to mind at all when they do that same thing in the Market forum.)

 

I found out about the auction on the boards and assume many of us did, and I can certainly understand why a seller and buyer could both benefit from the private transaction, even though I would have enjoyed watching it play out. You could argue the seller left a lot of money on the table, taking a chance that legitimate buyers would have come forward at the end, yet was willing to take that chance to sell to someone here on the boards who he knows and trusts.

[PokerKid]

Thread locked!!!

 

 

(did that work?)

[conditionfreak]

Yep. It worked.

 

Oh.wait..I just posted.

[G.A.tor]

A lot more concern for eBay on these boards than I have seen in the past.

 

I know this is a touchy subject as I have seen very well respected board members raked over the coals for changing their mind about selling a book on eBay. (People here don't seem to mind at all when they do that same thing in the Market forum.)

 

I found out about the auction on the boards and assume many of us did, and I can certainly understand why a seller and buyer could both benefit from the private transaction, even though I would have enjoyed watching it play out. You could argue the seller left a lot of money on the table, taking a chance that legitimate buyers would have come forward at the end, yet was willing to take that chance to sell to someone here on the boards who he knows and trusts.

now I am back to just posting for me

to be honest, I felt $85K was WAY high... ben has tried for over a year to sell this book for that range, and never got a sniff above $75K... so, I am not convinced there would have been any more bids, but what do I know, it might have gone for $100K +...we will never know...

 

I have never ended an auction early for the sake of selling off ebay, and I always start mine at 99c no reserve (mainly action figures and statues, but the occasional comic)... but, ben did it "his" way, and everyone is entitled to their opinions on how he chose to handle his auction, etc...

 

 

that is what keeps this place interesting, and I learn something new, litterally everyday, so I will thank all that post and contribute, whether we agree or disagree

[COI]

It's very easy to preach morality when it isn't your cash on the line.

[conditionfreak]

Actually, "your" morality only becomes apparent when something IS on the line. Otherwise, there is no test of your morality.

 

Honesty and integrity are best proven when no one is watching. In this particular case, many were watching, and half or more of those watching, find it distasteful. Probably not legal. Diffinitely bothersome.

 

I wish I could remember that song from years ago. Something to the effect of "For forty years I chased the almighty dollar".

 

Seems like the definition of a prostitute is how much one is offered for a certain act. Not whether they will do the act or not, but how MUCH THEY GET for doing the act.

 

Yea. That statement is a little far afield. But it makes the point I wanted to make.

 

Okay. I'm probably done.

[dizzyfoxx]

OMG!!! I go away for a little while and come back and this cr:censored: is still going??? Wow! Here's a thought, does anyone have a cool book to post? It's about time to get

[COI]

Actually, "your" morality only becomes apparent when something IS on the line. Otherwise, there is no test of your morality.

 

That's pretty much what I just said. It's easy for people here to point fingers because it isn't their book.

 

Morality is also relative and doesn't always hinge on strictly following "the rules". To me, it's distasteful and even immoral to some extent to rake someone over the coals, especially when those who are doing the finger pointing have no stake on either side of the transaction. To use your words, "morality only becomes apparent when something IS on the line", so taking the moral high ground and stating what you would do in this situation actually means nothing because "there is no test of your morality" here.

[thehumantorch]

It's very easy to preach morality when it isn't your cash on the line.

 

That is indeed true, few of us have comics worth this much or face Ebay fees of this magnitude. Hard to say what each of us would do in this position but kudos to those that can follow their moral compass and kudos to those that point out those that don't.

 

Posts like:

 

Thanks ladies...whats that saying...oh yeah...if ya got anything nice to say dont say anything at all...mind your business and move along

 

congrats at adding a post digit...someday it might matter to someone

 

and this:

 

Take a self examination of your behavior boys. I love the voices of morality and the revenge they can induce. To preach morality one should show moral behavior.

 

and this

 

I'd bet alot of our right wing, morality police, holier than thou members who feel the need to add their opinion no matter if they should mind their own would have done the same. Everyone complaining would certainly give away ten thousand to keep their moral values concerning funny books.

 

are rude and uncalled for.

 

Posts like:

 

Fees including use of paypal near 7k. Book has been sold privately to non-usa board member who was 2nd highest bidder.

 

is soooo correct ... all the way to the bank with auction fees of $91

 

and this

 

foreign purchaser offers an obscene amount of cash only if it ends during the phone call...

 

clearly indicate that the seller ended the auction for obscene amounts of cash.

 

Disgusting.

[all bout da Bene]

disgusting by the way...is with a g not c........you got it

 

 

if you want to check all my posts I'm sure you could find alot of off the cuff rude comments by me

 

thanks for pointing out what an azz I am but I'm

[conditionfreak]

Actually, "your" morality only becomes apparent when something IS on the line. Otherwise, there is no test of your morality.

 

That's pretty much what I just said. It's easy for people here to point fingers because it isn't their book.

 

Morality is also relative and doesn't always hinge on strictly following "the rules". To me, it's distasteful and even immoral to some extent to rake someone over the coals, especially when those who are doing the finger pointing have no stake on either side of the transaction. To use your words, "morality only becomes apparent when something IS on the line", so taking the moral high ground and stating what you would do in this situation actually means nothing because "there is no test of your morality" here.

 

You are absolutely correct.

 

But, MY morality was not being questioned. Destroyers' was. My (and others) alleged "holier than thou" stance was being pointed out by him. Just read the above quotes in red and see where his views of this situation are.

 

Look. I don't know the guy. I don't care to know the guy. I will never know the guy. But I do know what I have read with my own eyes. I read his original Ebay auction and his postings here. I came to my personal conclusion. I passed judgement. You and others do not like it. Too bad. I don't like your assessment of the situation either. Those reading these posts can make a fair judgement of what you, him and I might do in the future. Of course there are no guarantees what each of us would do in a similar situation, but what are the odds, having taken the stances we all have taken in this thread?

 

Simple really. He should of and could of said, "gentlemen, I did what was best for me and my family, and felt at the time it was the right thing to do". "I note your opinions and suggestions and will in the future, consider them if such a situation arises".

 

Or something similar.

 

But he didn't. He said the stuff in red above. Far be it from me to judge anyone (ya know, like Jason Ewert, Al Queda, Bernie Madoff, George Bush or O.J. Simpson).

 

Maybe, as Det27Kid stated. Destroyer just doesn't come across on the net as well as he does on the phone or in person. I guess that is entirely possible. But still..............His postings multiply his original actions three fold.

[comicdonna]

Maybe, as Det27Kid stated. Destroyer just doesn't come across on the net as well as he does on the phone or in person. I guess that is entirely possible. But still..............His postings multiply his original actions three fold.

I just wanted to chime in on this! I probably have spent more time in person with Ben than anyone else here. I asked him to bid on the Action 1 wrap on comiclink last year. He did and I made payments to him until it was paid off. Ben never once would accept anything more than the original price and sales tax on the wrap. He is actually a very pleasant person to be around. I will admit though, that his posts don't actually add up to his actual personallity. One thing I do know, if I was broke down in the middle of the night, I could call Ben if needed and he would do anything he could to help out. I consider him a true friend, and I don't use that term loosely.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Hmm...this is an interesting thread. I think I have to agree with Rick on this one.

 

The presence of a possible fraudulent underbidder in the mix makes the decision to pull the book and conclude the transaction outside of ebay understandable.

 

The fact the buyer and seller were already well aware of one another seems to make this a no-brainer.

 

Imagine this scenario: You have an antique desk. You want $500 for it. Your neighbor knows you have this desk, and is interested, but has hemmed and hawed over the decision to purchase it. So, you send it to a consignment shop and advertise it for $700 (knowing the shop charges a 20% commission). Your neighbor finally gets off his duff when he realizes someone else might buy it, and offers to buy it for $500. So pull the desk from the shop, and sell it to your neighbor. Does the consignment shop still deserve its cut?

 

Um...no. In legal terms, they were not the procuring cause of the transaction, and as such, are not entitled to squat. It might suck. Some might see it as unethical, but its perfectly legal.

 

 

[conditionfreak]

Depends if you had a verbal or written contract with the consignment shop. Doesn't it?

[conditionfreak]

I guess I am just out of touch. I always thought that a mans word or agreements meant something.

 

You know. Like if I told you I was going to bring a certain book to you at the next Con, as you agreed to buy it for one hundred bucks. But when I see you at the Con and you ask for the book, I tell you that I sold it to somebody else yesterday for $110.00 bucks. Sorry, but ten percent more is ten percent more.

 

Silly me.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Depends if you had a verbal or written contract with the consignment shop. Doesn't it?

 

I'm no lawyer, but even with ebay's written contract (the terms of service), they would have a hard time collecting on any fees if procuring cause can't be definitively proven. Their contract is "binding" only as much as the laws of the individual state where any legal action would ensue say they are.

 

[conditionfreak]

Well, maybe I got it wrong, but wasn't the eventual buyer the second highest Ebay bidder? If I read that right, then Ebay could certainly make that case. Easy win, if I have that right.