I am gettin' mighty sick of this!! RANT AHEAD

[chromium]

I just do not agree all the blame (for lack of a better word) lies at Harely feet. Which he cant see btw..

 

 

[joeypost]

Bought 3 SA Thors (128-129-130) from Harley Yee at a con in Montreal all listed in the NM-/NM range he charged me a crudload of money and wouldn't budge on the prices. I told myself, Hey he's in my OSPG, there's his pic, you can trust him. I paid and today my books came back 6.0, 7.5, & 9.0 a far cry from NM.

 

The 6.0 and the 7.5 have to be water damage or interior defects. No one could mistake a 6.0 for a NM/Nm- on its face.

 

Could also be staining and rusty staples. I bring a magnifying glass to cons now. I don't trust my own eyes anymore, let alone someone elses.

 

I am not sure, but I don't think a rusty staple or a small stain would make it go from NM to F-, prob a VF.

 

Unless the stain was immense in that case they both are out of their minds for not seeing it.

 

On the rusty staples and stains I would have to strongly disagree. I have 2 books in my posession that for all intensive purposes look like 9.8's. One had some rust on the interior of the top staple (9.0), the second a small discoloration on the BC. 8.5. Those are examples on books that initially got all the oh's and ah's when I showed them at a forum dinner.

 

CGC hammers stains, moisture damage, indents, rusty staples, tanning, CBC's. One of them is bad enough, any combination of the two is the KOD.

[dikran]

It's not that I don't want to learn (heck I study comics more than my career) , it's that:

a) it wont be done overnight

b) grading will always be subjective

c) will a stain on an otherwise NM book make it 5.0? 5.5? 6.0? 6.5? 9.0?

d) I bought the OS grading guide, I try to follow it, does it REALLY help you to differentiate between 6.5-7.0-7.5? The grade descriptions are almost identical.

e) I feel like the canadian rube who got taken by the big city huckster.

 

Contacting Harley won't solve anything, he'll say he's sorry and that "grading is subjective". I just wanted to vent my frustration.

[3319comics]

Your canadian!! that explains it....

[Jeffro.]

 

Contacting Harley won't solve anything, he'll say he's sorry and that "grading is subjective". I just wanted to vent my frustration.

 

If you don't contact him, then it's 100% certain that it won't solve anything. Take a shot. What do you have to lose?

[Bruce1971]

Seeing where you are from you should worry about Gerry Ross......

 

I would also second the response about buying from the boards. But I would add that I would look for boardies who have been posting for a long time and sell books consistantly. My general rule is if I see lots of boardies buying books from a long time poster then their grading should be pretty good. The reason I would look guys who sell a good amount is I have noticed a lack of calling out bad graders, at least in public. There are some good deals on the boards as well, but you usually have to be quick to snag them.

 

Bruce

 

 

[Wally's Comics]

I just do not agree all the blame (for lack of a better word) lies at Harely feet. Which he cant see btw..

 

 

 

 

[Shark]

Bought 3 SA Thors (128-129-130) from Harley Yee at a con in Montreal all listed in the NM-/NM range he charged me a crudload of money and wouldn't budge on the prices. I told myself, Hey he's in my OSPG, there's his pic, you can trust him. I paid and today my books came back 6.0, 7.5, & 9.0 a far cry from NM.

 

The 6.0 and the 7.5 have to be water damage or interior defects. No one could mistake a 6.0 for a NM/Nm- on its face.

 

Could also be staining and rusty staples. I bring a magnifying glass to cons now. I don't trust my own eyes anymore, let alone someone elses.

 

Here's a perfect example of what joeypost is talking about:

 

A couple of years ago I sent in an X-Men #222 to CGC for grading. Looked beautiful to me. Came back a 5.5 blue label. Huh? WTF? I don't think I called in for notes at the time.

 

Took it out and looked at it again yesterday just for the hell of it. What did I see? Staples are rusty as hell! Funny thing is rest of the comic is beautiful......even has WHITE pages!

 

Just a perfect example of what all of us have tended to do at one time or another. We've all probably sent in at least one book that looked great at first glance but came back a lot lower grade than we expected. It just proves that before any comic is submitted to CGC for grading LOOK OVER EVERY SQUARE INCH OF IT! I don't know how many times I've started a "send to CGC" pile then upon further review kicked out a number of them because I caught something I didn't catch the first time around. Play Inspector Clouseau on every comic submitted and you'll be right much more often than not. (thumbs u

[Dick Pontoon]

I’m bound to sound like a , but…

 

You say learning to grade doesn’t happen overnight, but you also say you’ve been “doing this seriously for a couple of years,” and also that “I cant really tell the difference between 6.0 and 8.0, heck some 9.0s look worse than 5.0s I have seen.” Something doesn’t add up. If you truly have been seriously applying yourself for a few years and that’s the result, sticking with graded books probably is your best bet. It also just doesn’t add up that Harley would grade F and VF- books as NM/NM- . It sounds as if you have an axe to grind with him. As a few people have asked, did you get the grader’s notes? And can you post scans of the books?

 

[Point Five]

Bought 3 SA Thors (128-129-130) from Harley Yee at a con in Montreal all listed in the NM-/NM range he charged me a crudload of money and wouldn't budge on the prices. I told myself, Hey he's in my OSPG, there's his pic, you can trust him. I paid and today my books came back 6.0, 7.5, & 9.0 a far cry from NM.

I take it that the books "appear" to be NM? Can you post front/back scans of the 6.0 and 7.5? I would love to see them.

[alecholland]

Bought 3 SA Thors (128-129-130) from Harley Yee at a con in Montreal all listed in the NM-/NM range he charged me a crudload of money and wouldn't budge on the prices. I told myself, Hey he's in my OSPG, there's his pic, you can trust him. I paid and today my books came back 6.0, 7.5, & 9.0 a far cry from NM.

 

 

Should have inspected the books before buying.

 

YES HE SHOULD HAVE!! The burden shouldn't have to fall on the buyer. He's selling to me, I'm just a shmo who buys comics, it's HIS BUSINESS, he should know better.

 

But it's your money.

 

At shows, I always check the merchandise before parting with my hard earned cash. I don't trust anyone's grading 100%, not because I think dealers aren't trustworthy, but because it's very easy to miss things, especially when a dealer may be going through 100's of books at a time.

 

As a consumer, I make it my responsibility to do the necessary research regarding grading, pricing, knowing how to spot certain kinds of restoration and to carefully inspect anything I plan on purchasing. It's my money.

 

You wouldn't buy a car or a house like that would you?

"Nice car, how does it run?"

"Oh, it runs great!"

"OK then, I'll take it."

 

I am sorry for the bad experience you had, and I'm not trying to be a smart but hopefully it will become a valuable lesson that will help you the next time (if there is a next time) you consider making a raw book purchase.

[NewWorldOrder]

Bought 3 SA Thors (128-129-130) from Harley Yee at a con in Montreal all listed in the NM-/NM range he charged me a crudload of money and wouldn't budge on the prices. I told myself, Hey he's in my OSPG, there's his pic, you can trust him. I paid and today my books came back 6.0, 7.5, & 9.0 a far cry from NM.

 

The 6.0 and the 7.5 have to be water damage or interior defects. No one could mistake a 6.0 for a NM/Nm- on its face.

 

Could also be staining and rusty staples. I bring a magnifying glass to cons now. I don't trust my own eyes anymore, let alone someone elses.

 

I am not sure, but I don't think a rusty staple or a small stain would make it go from NM to F-, prob a VF.

 

Unless the stain was immense in that case they both are out of their minds for not seeing it.

 

On the rusty staples and stains I would have to strongly disagree. I have 2 books in my posession that for all intensive purposes look like 9.8's. One had some rust on the interior of the top staple (9.0), the second a small discoloration on the BC. 8.5. Those are examples on books that initially got all the oh's and ah's when I showed them at a forum dinner.

 

CGC hammers stains, moisture damage, indents, rusty staples, tanning, CBC's. One of them is bad enough, any combination of the two is the KOD.

 

In my earlier days of CGCing I sent in a couple books with very small stains that I thought were Nm and they got VF (8.0-8.5). If the stains were big I would assume a lower grade.

 

 

Never sent in a rusty staple of any kind.

[joeypost]

Bought 3 SA Thors (128-129-130) from Harley Yee at a con in Montreal all listed in the NM-/NM range he charged me a crudload of money and wouldn't budge on the prices. I told myself, Hey he's in my OSPG, there's his pic, you can trust him. I paid and today my books came back 6.0, 7.5, & 9.0 a far cry from NM.

 

The 6.0 and the 7.5 have to be water damage or interior defects. No one could mistake a 6.0 for a NM/Nm- on its face.

 

Could also be staining and rusty staples. I bring a magnifying glass to cons now. I don't trust my own eyes anymore, let alone someone elses.

 

I am not sure, but I don't think a rusty staple or a small stain would make it go from NM to F-, prob a VF.

 

Unless the stain was immense in that case they both are out of their minds for not seeing it.

 

On the rusty staples and stains I would have to strongly disagree. I have 2 books in my posession that for all intensive purposes look like 9.8's. One had some rust on the interior of the top staple (9.0), the second a small discoloration on the BC. 8.5. Those are examples on books that initially got all the oh's and ah's when I showed them at a forum dinner.

 

CGC hammers stains, moisture damage, indents, rusty staples, tanning, CBC's. One of them is bad enough, any combination of the two is the KOD.

 

In my earlier days of CGCing I sent in a couple books with very small stains that I thought were Nm and they got VF (8.0-8.5). If the stains were big I would assume a lower grade.

 

 

Never sent in a rusty staple of any kind.

 

Kapelka's got some for sale.

[Sal]

On the rusty staples and stains I would have to strongly disagree. I have 2 books in my posession that for all intensive purposes look like 9.8's. One had some rust on the interior of the top staple (9.0), the second a small discoloration on the BC. 8.5. Those are examples on books that initially got all the oh's and ah's when I showed them at a forum dinner.

 

CGC hammers stains, moisture damage, indents, rusty staples, tanning, CBC's. One of them is bad enough, any combination of the two is the KOD.

 

Three things;

 

one, I agree with everything you've said here.

 

two, it's not 100% the responsibility of the dealer when CGC disagrees with their grade, but neither is the brunt of the burden on the buyer.

 

third, "intents and purposes," Joey.

[joeypost]

On the rusty staples and stains I would have to strongly disagree. I have 2 books in my posession that for all intensive purposes look like 9.8's. One had some rust on the interior of the top staple (9.0), the second a small discoloration on the BC. 8.5. Those are examples on books that initially got all the oh's and ah's when I showed them at a forum dinner.

 

CGC hammers stains, moisture damage, indents, rusty staples, tanning, CBC's. One of them is bad enough, any combination of the two is the KOD.

 

Three things;

 

one, I agree with everything you've said here.

 

two, it's not 100% the responsibility of the dealer when CGC disagrees with their grade, but neither is the brunt of the burden on the buyer.

 

third, "intents and purposes," Joey.

 

Undertsood completely Sal. Even those of us who are careful still get burned. When buying any book, let alone a big dollar book you really have to do your homework. If you don't know ask a more experienced collector for advice. Even then I would rather walk away from a dealer before I buy a book I really have to think about.

[Flaming_Telepath]

There is no stain that I can see... What like a spaghetti stain? I'm not that useless at grading And the staples look fine to me...

 

Some helpful advice.

 

1 Check the book under a bright light. Back and front and a slight angle.

 

2 White back covers, always check for light, invisible stains, smudges, fingerprints.

 

3 Page count, staples, and interior checking is a must, as some grade a book based on the front cover only.

 

4 Bends, ticks, light creases, or waves that you can't really see how severe they are looking at the book dead on is usually what will bite you in the ass as well as light stains and/or moisture damage when submitting.

 

(worship)

[dikran]

I’m bound to sound like a , but…

 

You say learning to grade doesn’t happen overnight, but you also say you’ve been “doing this seriously for a couple of years,” and also that “I cant really tell the difference between 6.0 and 8.0, heck some 9.0s look worse than 5.0s I have seen.” Something doesn’t add up. If you truly have been seriously applying yourself for a few years and that’s the result, sticking with graded books probably is your best bet. It also just doesn’t add up that Harley would grade F and VF- books as NM/NM- . It sounds as if you have an axe to grind with him. As a few people have asked, did you get the grader’s notes? And can you post scans of the books?

 

Well yeah, the whole point of this thread is that I have an axe to grind... And yes 2 years is not very long to be able to become an expert grader, I don't have thousands of books lying in a warehouse where I can compare grades. I have the grading guide and the "Spare a grade" room. And like I said, there are 9.0s that look like 5.0s & vice versa, so it's not a perfect system, I know that. Maybe there is a stain that is invisible to the naked eye, i don't know, the book is 45 years old... I dont have a scanner but I took some pics with my digital camera, if that would help? It sure would help me understand if there is something I can't see...

[BlowUpTheMoon]

Again, did you call for graders' notes? That would answer all of your questions.

[dikran]

And also I want to thank all of you for the helpful advice!! Again I love these boards! I hope I haven't rubbed anyone the wrong way... I just want to get better at this, eventually

[sckao]

It seems to me that you savaged a long-time dealer based on one transaction without giving very many details. How about some scans/photos of the slabs? (Front and Back)