PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[mrwoogieman]

 

You still up for that massage?

 

[DR.X]

A heads up to the Boards:

 

A month ago Gaijin2020, an international boardie, popped the BIN on an Avengers 17 in my last sales thread. I sent him a PM letting him know that I had no idea what shipping was going to be, but I suggested that he pay $15 for shipping and I would cover the rest. No response to PM and no sale. Maybe I was way off on shipping or something, but ignored PMs are lame. I don't care whether he is on the Probation list or not, but I do want everyone to know what may be in store for them with this guy.

 

--S.

$15 is a fair price for international shipping for a slab. Think he needs to go on the list.

 

+1

 

That price sounds reasonable. And if the buyer didnt think so, he could have just contacted Sean and worked something out. Communication is key in any transaction, here on the boards or anywhere else.

 

DR.X

[Comicopolis]

A heads up to the Boards:

 

A month ago Gaijin2020, an international boardie, popped the BIN on an Avengers 17 in my last sales thread. I sent him a PM letting him know that I had no idea what shipping was going to be, but I suggested that he pay $15 for shipping and I would cover the rest. No response to PM and no sale. Maybe I was way off on shipping or something, but ignored PMs are lame. I don't care whether he is on the Probation list or not, but I do want everyone to know what may be in store for them with this guy.

 

--S.

$15 is a fair price for international shipping for a slab. Think he needs to go on the list.

 

+1

 

That price sounds reasonable. And if the buyer didnt think so, he could have just contacted Sean and worked something out. Communication is key in any transaction, here on the boards or anywhere else.

 

DR.X

 

Actually $15 is cheap for a slab shipped from the US - I normally expect to pay twice that.

[Forbush-Man]

 

You still up for that massage?

 

[Peter Loves Gwen]

A heads up to the Boards:

 

A month ago Gaijin2020, an international boardie, popped the BIN on an Avengers 17 in my last sales thread. I sent him a PM letting him know that I had no idea what shipping was going to be, but I suggested that he pay $15 for shipping and I would cover the rest. No response to PM and no sale. Maybe I was way off on shipping or something, but ignored PMs are lame. I don't care whether he is on the Probation list or not, but I do want everyone to know what may be in store for them with this guy.

 

--S.

$15 is a fair price for international shipping for a slab. Think he needs to go on the list.

 

+1

 

That price sounds reasonable. And if the buyer didnt think so, he could have just contacted Sean and worked something out. Communication is key in any transaction, here on the boards or anywhere else.

 

DR.X

 

Actually $15 is cheap for a slab shipped from the US - I normally expect to pay twice that.

 

Ditto, it's $22 from here to Canada, Priority Mail(the boxes are free and sized great for safe shipping). My ASM 50 was cracked in shipping from the UK, and it cost $30+. The guy used a packing envelope(inner pocket filled with shredded paper pulp).

[Bio-Rupp]

People on the Probation List can get off once they've cleared up whatever problems they've got going on. That's what it's for, it's a PROBATION list.

 

The HOS is kinda the same thing, but you don't get removed. Whatever you've done to get on the HOS, clearing it up doesn't get you off. That's what the HOS is for, and I don't really see how it'd benefit anyone to give scammers a break because they haven't also been a beneficial part of the community. If machinegunned is bad enough that we must always remember not to buy from him, and it sounds like he is, then the HOS is exactly where he belongs. I guess it's just not as tragic to see him there.

 

That's a fair point. I guess what I'm getting at is that the last offenses that weren't cleared up with a little communication were thrown right to the HOS. My concern is that if people keep bypassing the probation list and go right to the HOS, the HOS will lose it's impact. Kind of like having your favorite food for dinner...it's great once in a while, but it loses its appeal if you have it every night. Not a great analogy, but it works well enough.

 

And to be clear, I am very aware of the whole AlleyBat/VTcomics scenario. In fact, it was my first read in the probation area. However, as has already been discussed, value shouldn't be the only determining factor in induction into the HOS and the fact that AlleyBat was eventually revealed as a shill several times over helped out my first point...he was well-known (maybe infamous is a better word) board member before the scam went down.

 

As for the people saying that machinegunned only intended to scam people from the get-go, I get that. He had no intention of delivering any product and his intent was malicious. I could say that 'at least everyone got their money back', but that argument has more holes than a block of swiss cheese...I'm not sure even RMA could successfully defend that point (although he'd try tooth and nail if he felt like it). However, the fact that he intended to scam people and leave lends to the fact that he was very fly-by-night. Especially now that he's been banned, he won't be coming back under the same name and there would be no getting off the probation list anyway.

 

I think that most people who get scammed on here will feel that their particular scammer should go into the HOS. That's a natural reaction. I'm just thinking that if everyone starts bypassing the probation list and going right to the Hall of Shame, will people even pay attention to the probation list anymore?

 

I'd like to state again that I am in no way defending machine gunned. I always appreciate a civil discussion.

 

I understand you are not defending Machine Gunned... but if flat out stealing from someone doesn't justify a total ban and HOS status, what does?

 

I mean if Machine Gunned broke into your home and attempted to steal everything in it, but got caught or thwarted in the process... wouldn't you think that he should be brought up on charges regardless of wether he got anything out of your house or not?

 

This guy was a THIEF.... plain and simple. He deserves to be treated like a THIEF and "prosecuted" like one as well.

 

The only good thing that has came from my experience with him is that now we boardies have coined the term "Machine Gunned". He will live on in infamy!

Edited September 9, 2010 by Bio-Rupp

[seanfingh]

Last note before hitting the sack - I did get a PM from gaijin2010. Looks like that may get cleared up. I'll update ASAP.

 

--S.

[thirdgreenham]

Last note before hitting the sack - I did get a PM from gaijin2010. Looks like that may get cleared up. I'll update ASAP.

 

--S.

 

Please do, Sean, please do.

 

 

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Last note before hitting the sack - I did get a PM from gaijin2010. Looks like that may get cleared up. I'll update ASAP.

 

--S.

 

Please do Sean, please do.

 

 

I remove the comma and now say you are a pervert. AMAZING!

[etanick]

sadly, I think we need to add Grimace into the list since he failed to send out any books to the buyers on his thread. I, DCman and well as Foolkiller and any buyers haven't gotten a reply via Pm for the past week and it has been over 2 weeks since I paid him. If I get a reply or receive my books today, I will update but I am not holding my breath.

[skypinkblu]

sadly, I think we need to add Grimace into the list since he failed to send out any books to the buyers on his thread. I, DCman and well as Foolkiller and any buyers haven't gotten a reply via Pm for the past week and it has been over 2 weeks since I paid him. If I get a reply or receive my books today, I will update but I am not holding my breath.

 

I saw that some people asked some good questions, but when he answered with his eBay ID as a reference...I wonder if people checked? The last transaction was about 4 years ago.

 

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=demogoblin&ftab=AllFeedback

 

Perhaps it's time to ask new sellers for 3 current references and for those references to be checked before purchases are made. I got stuck buying junk from a new seller a few years ago and I've been really cautious ever since...it's nice to have new people here, but once bitten...etc...I HAVE purchased from new people since, but I learned my lesson, I make sure someone I trust has dealt with them before I buy something.

 

[etanick]

yup....I took a little dip buying knowing it is a risk and only spend $30 while I could have easily bought a lot more. I exchanged dozen of PMs with the seller about other books not listed. He did offer great deals for many other books via PM but I told him until the $30 deal is completed...I won't spend $300 or more. Another one bites the dust.

[Snake Eyes]

Very sorry to see that folks got burned again. Only been here a year, but it seems to me that this is on the increase in terms of the number of threads that have been fraudulent in some way or another. Maybe a boardie with a longer history can chime in and let us know if that is the case.

 

Anyway, I bailed on his thread when I saw the response to my question about references. Did not want to seem overly harsh on the new guy, but an inactive eBay account just did not do it for me. Hope that everyone can do chargebacks and get their funds back...unfortunately some really great people got taken again here.

 

There seems to be regular debate popping up repeatedly on ways to make the marketplace safer, but then the talk usually dies down pretty quick. I know this tags me as a state employee, but maybe a small committee to debate some ideas via pm or phone, and then return to the larger group with a list of proposals or discussion points would be helpful?

 

Unrelated to Grimace (more of a MachineGunned issue)...

I know not everyone agrees with this, but just my two cents...to me selling in the marketplace is a privilege (in my mind akin to driving a car), and should not a right (such as voting). It really should not be acceptable to hop on the boards and have a sale with your first post. The board admins will not stop this from happening, and largely go hands off in this section. Therefore, it is up to us to put community guidelines in place. But even though we know it is not safe to do so, we jump at the perceived bargains sometimes. Some serious thought should really be given to this, because it seems that as a group we are unable to resist (I know some individuals do, but a number do not). Not sure how to stop this, but some brainstorming may be helpful. For example, is it a good idea to require three public completed successfully before being allowed to sell? If not, can we post warnings in the thread without being accused of being bad citizens or thread crappers? Or is it OK to comment in thread regarding someone signing up one day before the sales thread without looking like a *fork* (I honestly think some do not check before buying). Or should we just let the forces of unrestrained capaitalism to work their will and let people continue to get burned? No answers unfortunately on my end, but feel a good long talk about seeking to update the rules/requirements might be in order. (thumbs u

 

And for what it is worth, I would be glad to help out in any way if needed

 

Hope everyone has a great weekend,

Heath

[Speedy-D]

Very sorry to see that folks got burned again. Only been here a year, but it seems to me that this is on the increase in terms of the number of threads that have been fraudulent in some way or another. Maybe a boardie with a longer history can chime in and let us know if that is the case.

 

Anyway, I bailed on his thread when I saw the response to my question about references. Did not want to seem overly harsh on the new guy, but an inactive eBay account just did not do it for me. Hope that everyone can do chargebacks and get their funds back...unfortunately some really great people got taken again here.

 

There seems to be regular debate popping up repeatedly on ways to make the marketplace safer, but then the talk usually dies down pretty quick. I know this tags me as a state employee, but maybe a small committee to debate some ideas via pm or phone, and then return to the larger group with a list of proposals or discussion points would be helpful?

 

Unrelated to Grimace (more of a MachineGunned issue)...

I know not everyone agrees with this, but just my two cents...to me selling in the marketplace is a privilege (in my mind akin to driving a car), and should not a right (such as voting). It really should not be acceptable to hop on the boards and have a sale with your first post. The board admins will not stop this from happening, and largely go hands off in this section. Therefore, it is up to us to put community guidelines in place. But even though we know it is not safe to do so, we jump at the perceived bargains sometimes. Some serious thought should really be given to this, because it seems that as a group we are unable to resist (I know some individuals do, but a number do not). Not sure how to stop this, but some brainstorming may be helpful. For example, is it a good idea to require three public completed successfully before being allowed to sell? If not, can we post warnings in the thread without being accused of being bad citizens or thread crappers? Or is it OK to comment in thread regarding someone signing up one day before the sales thread without looking like a *fork* (I honestly think some do not check before buying). Or should we just let the forces of unrestrained capaitalism to work their will and let people continue to get burned? No answers unfortunately on my end, but feel a good long talk about seeking to update the rules/requirements might be in order. (thumbs u

 

And for what it is worth, I would be glad to help out in any way if needed

 

Hope everyone has a great weekend,

Heath

I gotta disagree Heath. I have no problem with people coming on here to sell their comics. If they want their first post to be a sale, that's fine. i personally won't be buying from them, but that's my own decision. There have been proposals along the lines of making people "earn" the right to sell, none of them really feasible as far as I'm concerned. Making people buy three comics? How will that help me trust that I'll get what I buy from them? Past suggestions have included making people do some sort of community service, or waiting until they've posted X number of times in various threads. All of this seems unworkable, unenforceable aside from the mods getting involved (which ain't gonna happen), and counter-productive.

 

If anyone feels sketchy about new sellers, just don't buy. Seems simple to me. I like to wait until a boardie I know and trust gives a seller kudos or posts in a sales thread that they received their comics and all went smoothly.

 

I do appreciate where you're coming from though. It'd be great if no one ever scammed anyone else around here. But so far I haven't heard any ideas that would a) address the issue, and b) not be too much of a hindrance/imposition.

[etanick]

i really don't have a solution either because many came here to sell and once in a while you get a bad apple. It is a hassle to deal with Paypal and reverse the charge but it is what it is and that is why as a buyer, one can buy a small amount or not at all from a new buyer. I have no problem giving a new seller the benefit of the doubt but I am that way in life...everyone deserves a chance..screw it up and one and done with me.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Agreed...was tossing out ideas...not particularly wed to any of them with the exception that it just does not feel right to allow first time posters to sell. :shrug: I have yet to take a hit, but that was only thanks to a couple of timely PMs that I was about to buy from a shill for a probation list member. I understand the necessity of policing yourself, but also I feel there has to be something else that can be done to safeguard people more generally. Maybe something simple yet time consuming (some sort of master kudos list posted once per month, like we have a probation list with everyone on it) or something more effortful like the minimum buys or community service requirements

 

It's all just that nagging feeling that something could be done better, but have no idea what it might be...kind of a whole Spider Sense is tingling phenomena

 

If nothing else, just simple discussion is helpful as it allows others to see that there have been some recent problems and alerts them to be careful (thumbs u

Thanks for the thoughts guys

[DR.X]

Maybe we can do like the bike clubs do. First they have to be hang-arounds, then prospects. After at least a year on probation we can vote on having them patched in as full fledged members of this community.

 

DR.X

[Crows]

I got a PM from TheDanimal 7 days ago asking if i have received my order.

He hasnt even read my reply that i have not.

[tortoise]

I got a PM from TheDanimal 7 days ago asking if i have received my order.

He hasnt even read my reply that i have not.

 

[DR.X]

I got a PM from TheDanimal 7 days ago asking if i have received my order.

He hasnt even read my reply that i have not.

 

 

 

I was under the assumption that all that stuff had been mailed.

 

DR.X