PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Bosco685]

Who else has been selling PGX slabs? Allegedly.

linky dink

 

You are mine you little, bitty troll.

 

First I don't see this as trolling, I see that he busted you and you are upset. Wow that sounds like a threat on your part.

 

Let's not take this too far off point there, 8milemax. These two have been going after each other with little mouse daggers for quite some time now, prodding one another playfully.

 

And when Rupp had his second sales thread and folks were still stating they were all PGX books (and looked just like the Iron Man books), I asked him via PM for scans, which he provided. Every book was a CGC slab.

[comicdonna]

Who else has been selling PGX slabs? Allegedly.

linky dink

 

You are mine you little, bitty troll.

 

First I don't see this as trolling, I see that he busted you and you are upset. Wow that sounds like a threat on your part.

 

Let's not take this too far off point there, 8milemax. These two have been going after each other with little mouse daggers for quite some time now, prodding one another playfully.

 

And when Rupp has his second sales thread and folks were still stating they were all PGX books (and looked just like the Iron Man books), I asked him via PM for scans, which he provided. Every book was a CGC slab.

I remember that thread. Didn't he say graded by another company or something like that. Cropped scans. He had me wondering for a minute. I thought that thread was hilarious.

[8milemax]

Who else has been selling PGX slabs? Allegedly.

linky dink

 

You are mine you little, bitty troll.

 

First I don't see this as trolling, I see that he busted you and you are upset. Wow that sounds like a threat on your part.

 

Let's not take this too far off point there, 8milemax. These two have been going after each other with little mouse daggers for quite some time now, prodding one another playfully.

 

And when Rupp had his second sales thread and folks were still stating they were all PGX books (and looked just like the Iron Man books), I asked him via PM for scans, which he provided. Every book was a CGC slab.

 

I stand corrected

[PovertyRow]

Changes we need to make:

 

1) As suggested by, I believe, Sky, we need to change the Forum Selling Guidelines to require any slabbed book being sold to have a clear, readable image of the label.

 

2) I believe selling non-CGC books undisclosed is an HOS offense. I think two separate instances is enough before an HOS vote is taken. But I am open to three instances as well.

 

The first instance would result in a warning to the seller that an HOS vote will be taken on the 2nd (or 3rd) subsequent attempt.

 

3) If someone does receive a non-CGC slabbed book, they cannot deslab it for their use and then bring "charges" against the seller.

 

Thoughts on this?

[USArmyParatrooper]

Jurisdictional question:

 

If the offense that we are seeking to place Trey on the probation list for is the one of selling a PGX book in the first place isn't that a violation of the forum TOS, and isn't this a Moderator issue, with Moderator level remedies (strikes, suspensions, listing in a permanent strike record, etc.)??

 

If the offense that we are seeking to place Trey on the probation list for is one of lying about selling a PGX slab and pimping for feedback the buyer didn't want to give then shouldn't we drop all the discussion of the sale of a PGX slab and get down to the meat of the honesty, or lack thereof, on Trey's part?

 

 

It's an important distinction. The probation list isn't here to punish violations of the term of service or general board guidelines. Otherwise we should be listing every shill, every masker, every guy who lists political items because they are all violations of board rules. We are heading down the wrong road if we don't follow our own rules.

 

 

PGX slabs are not supposed to be sold here. That's an Administrative rule.

There is nothing inherently wrong about selling a book inside a PGX slab that would land the person on the probation list, unless it involves dishonesty in the transaction. The only reason we are talking about PGX slabs in the first place is because the Mods have noted that they cannot be sold here and have enacted their own remedies to handle that situation. There's a process already in place that doesn't require the probation list to punish the action.

 

I see the probation list's power in listing transactions gone bad from dishonesty, or failure to perform property, but I am not seeing it as a redundant enforcement arm of the Administrations rules and regs.

 

I hope that made sense. Too many people are stuck on the fact that it's a PGX slab and we aren't getting down to the meat of the discussion and frankly, people jumping the gun to add him to the list are undermining whatever credibility the list has. I think the torches will keep burning just fine while the, carefully set up, due process completes itself.

 

That makes perfect sense and I agree 100%

 

The probation list is supposed to be a protective measure for buyers and sellers. Being on the naughty list is like having a bad line of CGC forum credit. You have bad credit so people won't deal with you.

 

If someone sells or attempts to sell PGX books and are upfront about it, that doesn't deserve "bad credit." It's a violation of the site rules and it's a matter for the administrators and moderators.

 

But if there was dishonesty involved then that's a credibility issue.

[PovertyRow]

And for those who think I belong I would like to see your reasoning why.

 

I think neither you nor Trey belong on the PL.

 

I think Trey was bypassing the first Sales Guideline by knowingly selling a PGX book. He furthered that by not revealing it was a PGX book.

 

To my mind that is an offense that goes beyond the PL.

 

To quote the PL rules themselves:

 

The following Board Members are currently on "Probation" for failure to complete a Marketplace Forum transaction in good faith after one month's time.

 

That did not happen. As even Watson agrees, the transaction itself was not the issue.

 

Earlier I suggested that 3 attempts to sell a non-GC book would result in an HOS vote.

 

I would like to amend that to 2 attempts. One warning and on the 2nd occasion an HOS vote can be initiated.

 

One of the other rules in the PL is that someone can be removed from the PL if the two parties can come to an agreement. What you did wrong was make that almost impossible by deslabbing the book and keeping it for yourself...until the feedback issue came up.

 

As I also said earlier, how many times have we gotten on someone's case for buying from Robo? And when the person admits they did not know about Robo they are usually told that by buying form him they help him continue his methods.

 

I see no difference here. Buying from Trey, realizing it was a PGX book, saying nothing about it and cracking it out for yourself : that is allowing him to continue selling non-CGC books undisclosed

 

The PL also states, in order to get off the list:

 

If the accused makes full restitution to the satisfaction of the accuser, the accused will be removed from the PL.

.

What restitution are you entitled to? What happened in the transaction you did not agree with? You obviously agreed to a PGX book by cracking it out and putting it in a mylar for your collection rather than returning it.

 

Basically both you and Trey have screwed the Probation List seven ways from Sunday.

 

If thats the case, why did divad ad trey to the list?

 

I have no idea but i will be removing him again in a while unless someone can really demonstrate what PL Rules regarding the transaction were broken.

 

Again, I feel this is HOS territory, not PL territory.

[Shaven Kev-migration]

Who else has been selling PGX slabs? Allegedly.

linky dink

 

You are mine you little, bitty troll.

 

First I don't see this as trolling, I see that he busted you and you are upset. Wow that sounds like a threat on your part.

 

Let's not take this too far off point there, 8milemax. These two have been going after each other with little mouse daggers for quite some time now, prodding one another playfully.

 

And when Rupp had his second sales thread and folks were still stating they were all PGX books (and looked just like the Iron Man books), I asked him via PM for scans, which he provided. Every book was a CGC slab.

 

I stand corrected

 

He was baiting some people and it worked, and probably too well.

 

Rupp is a naughty dog that must be spanked...and have his nose rubbed in it!

 

I wish I knew why him and Green are mortal enemies cause they are both super awesome. They should combine forces instead of beefing.

[divad]

Changes we need to make:

 

1) As suggested by, I believe, Sky, we need to change the Forum Selling Guidelines to require any slabbed book being sold to have a clear, readable image of the label.

 

2) I believe selling non-CGC books undisclosed is an HOS offense. I think two separate instances is enough before an HOS vote is taken. But I am open to three instances as well.

 

The first instance would result in a warning to the seller that an HOS vote will be taken on the 2nd (or 3rd) subsequent attempt.

 

3) If someone does receive a non-CGC slabbed book, they cannot deslab it for their use and then bring "charges" against the seller.

 

Thoughts on this?

 

Yes. We could water it down even further so no one ever gets put on the list and it serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever.

[thehumantorch]

Changes we need to make:

 

1) As suggested by, I believe, Sky, we need to change the Forum Selling Guidelines to require any slabbed book being sold to have a clear, readable image of the label.

 

2) I believe selling non-CGC books undisclosed is an HOS offense. I think two separate instances is enough before an HOS vote is taken. But I am open to three instances as well.

 

The first instance would result in a warning to the seller that an HOS vote will be taken on the 2nd (or 3rd) subsequent attempt.

 

3) If someone does receive a non-CGC slabbed book, they cannot deslab it for their use and then bring "charges" against the seller.

 

Thoughts on this?

 

#1 should solve a lot of problems. Apparently, selling PGX books here is fairly

common and I would like to see an end to it.

[ashsaytr]

Changes we need to make:

 

 

3) If someone does receive a non-CGC slabbed book, they cannot deslab it for their use and then bring "charges" against the seller.

 

Thoughts on this?

 

hey PR not sure why this would be included... most sellers (even ebay) would never take a book back that has been cracked from the slab... a slabbed book has been graded and placed in a protective cover... any alteration of that cover would null and void any transaction...no way to tell if it was the same book... at least i don't think...just saying... also i think twice is appropriate... if you can make a mistake... be corrected and come back and do the same thing all over again... probably don't want to buy from you anyways~

[PovertyRow]

And for those who think I belong I would like to see your reasoning why.

 

I think neither you nor Trey belong on the PL.

 

I think Trey was bypassing the first Sales Guideline by knowingly selling a PGX book. He furthered that by not revealing it was a PGX book.

 

To my mind that is an offense that goes beyond the PL.

 

To quote the PL rules themselves:

 

The following Board Members are currently on "Probation" for failure to complete a Marketplace Forum transaction in good faith after one month's time.

 

That did not happen. As even Watson agrees, the transaction itself was not the issue.

 

Earlier I suggested that 3 attempts to sell a non-GC book would result in an HOS vote.

 

I would like to amend that to 2 attempts. One warning and on the 2nd occasion an HOS vote can be initiated.

 

One of the other rules in the PL is that someone can be removed from the PL if the two parties can come to an agreement. What you did wrong was make that almost impossible by deslabbing the book and keeping it for yourself...until the feedback issue came up.

 

As I also said earlier, how many times have we gotten on someone's case for buying from Robo? And when the person admits they did not know about Robo they are usually told that by buying form him they help him continue his methods.

 

I see no difference here. Buying from Trey, realizing it was a PGX book, saying nothing about it and cracking it out for yourself : that is allowing him to continue selling non-CGC books undisclosed

 

The PL also states, in order to get off the list:

 

If the accused makes full restitution to the satisfaction of the accuser, the accused will be removed from the PL.

.

What restitution are you entitled to? What happened in the transaction you did not agree with? You obviously agreed to a PGX book by cracking it out and putting it in a mylar for your collection rather than returning it.

 

Basically both you and Trey have screwed the Probation List seven ways from Sunday.

 

I'm not sure what conclusion you are drawing here. Are you saying Trey should not be put on probation because there is no way for him to get himself removed from probation ?

 

I am saying the PL is not for personal grudges. And if we start allowing them the list is screwed. The PL is designed for the buyer and seller of a transaction. No one has complained the payment was not sent in a timely manner, or the book was not packed and shipped properly in a timely manner. And the unslabbing of the book was a tacit agreement that the transaction was acceptable, which it should not have been.

 

Only when the feedback stated was the PL invoked by BOTH parties. That belongs in the realm of posting behavior.

[VintageComics]

He was baiting some people and it worked, and probably too well.

 

Posting partial pics of slabs, evading questions and then only to have them be actual CGC graded books?

 

Bio may be a great guy but it was basically entrapment is what it was.

 

It was fun to watch initially in the sense that a joke always gets a rise out of people but unfortunately it was at the expense of some board members which to me wasn't cool.

[Bio-Rupp]

Who else has been selling PGX slabs? Allegedly.

linky dink

 

You are mine you little, bitty troll.

 

First I don't see this as trolling, I see that he busted you and you are upset. Wow that sounds like a threat on your part.

 

Let's not take this too far off point there, 8milemax. These two have been going after each other with little mouse daggers for quite some time now, prodding one another playfully.

 

And when Rupp had his second sales thread and folks were still stating they were all PGX books (and looked just like the Iron Man books), I asked him via PM for scans, which he provided. Every book was a CGC slab.

 

I stand corrected

 

He was baiting some people and it worked, and probably too well.

 

Rupp is a naughty dog that must be spanked...and have his nose rubbed in it!

 

I wish I knew why him and Green are mortal enemies cause they are both super awesome. They should combine forces instead of beefing.

 

I've tried to be pals with him Kev. After his refusal to put up a sign last year, our relationship has snowballed... but mainly due to him.

 

I've asked him repeatedly to join in the sheetnanigans of Clooneython and pull the hatchet handle out of his troll-butt so we can bury it... but he refuses. Even after I banned him from my sales threads after his constant gnat-like annoyance, I still gave him a way back in at the beginning of my last thread.

 

He continues to follow me around the boards after being called out by Boscoe and a few others about it. Green is the true definition of a TROLL. I'm just tired of it. If the boy would put half as much time into his sales threads that he puts into following me around, then he might make some friends and sell some stuff.

[Green]

Who else has been selling PGX slabs? Allegedly.

linky dink

 

You are mine you little, bitty troll.

 

First I don't see this as trolling, I see that he busted you and you are upset. Wow that sounds like a threat on your part.

 

Let's not take this too far off point there, 8milemax. These two have been going after each other with little mouse daggers for quite some time now, prodding one another playfully.

 

And when Rupp had his second sales thread and folks were still stating they were all PGX books (and looked just like the Iron Man books), I asked him via PM for scans, which he provided. Every book was a CGC slab.

Yea, the books from the trolling me thread that the mods deleted. Those were cgc, the iron mans werent proven anything. I also find it funny how close bios answer was to trey when confronted with simple questions.

[PovertyRow]

Changes we need to make:

 

1) As suggested by, I believe, Sky, we need to change the Forum Selling Guidelines to require any slabbed book being sold to have a clear, readable image of the label.

 

2) I believe selling non-CGC books undisclosed is an HOS offense. I think two separate instances is enough before an HOS vote is taken. But I am open to three instances as well.

 

The first instance would result in a warning to the seller that an HOS vote will be taken on the 2nd (or 3rd) subsequent attempt.

 

3) If someone does receive a non-CGC slabbed book, they cannot deslab it for their use and then bring "charges" against the seller.

 

Thoughts on this?

 

Yes. We could water it down even further so no one ever gets put on the list and it serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever.

 

See David...this is the kind of response I keep getting from you. One shot jabs because I guess you think I took your baby from you by consolidating the practices that had already been going on and making a list. About the only real changes there are the required PM to the person being nominated to give them a chance to respond. (or do you think that is too watered down?) And the 72 hour wait from the PM being sent.

 

Everything else reflected things that had gone on again and again. So tell me exactly where the watering down is.

[Bosco685]

He was baiting some people and it worked, and probably too well.

 

Posting partial pics of slabs, evading questions and then only to have them be actual CGC graded books?

 

Bio may be a great guy but it was basically entrapment is what it was.

 

It was fun to watch initially in the sense that a joke always gets a rise out of people but unfortunately it was at the expense of some board members which to me wasn't cool.

Roy, I bet it was because a few were the same that always join in the fight between the two of them.

 

Rupp gave me no issues when I asked for scans, and sent them immediately. We'll be here a decade from now, talking about the end of these forums, and I bet the two of them will still be dueling.

 

But I do look forward to Clooneython MMMMMVVVVVVVVV.

[DrWatson]

I think Arch should just give Trey a custom title to the effect of:

 

"This person is mentally handicapped. Deal with him at your own risk."

 

... and leave it at that.

 

Being upset at Trey for violating rules is like getting mad at your new puppy for wizzing on the floor. He isn't capable of understanding that he's doing wrong.

BS. He knows exactly what he's doing. Go to a convention and watch him operate his way through Artist's Alley.

[Bio-Rupp]

Who else has been selling PGX slabs? Allegedly.

linky dink

 

You are mine you little, bitty troll.

 

First I don't see this as trolling, I see that he busted you and you are upset. Wow that sounds like a threat on your part.

 

Let's not take this too far off point there, 8milemax. These two have been going after each other with little mouse daggers for quite some time now, prodding one another playfully.

 

And when Rupp had his second sales thread and folks were still stating they were all PGX books (and looked just like the Iron Man books), I asked him via PM for scans, which he provided. Every book was a CGC slab.

Yea, the books from the trolling me thread that the mods deleted. Those were cgc, the iron mans werent proven anything. I also find it funny how close bios answer was to trey when confronted with simple questions.

 

I find it funny that within 60 or 70 seconds of my post... you post after me! Are you in my house or something? TROLL !

[DrWatson]

My on this.

 

Trey sold a PGX book without revealing it.

 

Joey bought the book and received it in the slab.

 

Joey decided to remove the book from the slab to "enjoy at some future time".

 

After the subsequent issues regarding feedback etc already outlined, nominations for the PL begin. Trey nominates Joey and Joey nominates Trey.

 

Had Joey NOT taken the book out of the slab, had he returned it for a refund on the basis it was a PGX book THAT would be a valid case. But he accepted the book and unslabbed it for his own use.

 

Both sides here have some culpability.

 

This may be best served by Arch making a decision for strike(s) if he deems so.

(thumbs u

If being stupid enough to buy a book from Trey is enough fodder to add me to the PL feel free to do so.

I personally don't think either of you should be probated. You both knew it was a PGX book.

Joey didn't know it was a PGX book until he opened the package. Trey knew it from the moment it was posted for sale.

My opinion...and I'm sure I will get flack for it...

Trey offered a book with a grade. It happened to be in a PGX holder but that was not necessarily apparent from the scans nor from his listing or description. Others determined it was PGX before the sale because the scan showed the inner well. I understand that selling PGX books is against the rules here on the boards. I have always held the opinion that a comic is a comic. The label is not the comic. In my mind, as long as the grading companies opinion is not used to sell the book then no harm. But according to rules Trey should have cracked it before listing it here. So be it, and I understand it. But I digress... Joey may or may not have seen the discussion of whether or not it was a PGX book but he bought it. He received it. He knew it was in a PGX holder when he received it. If he had an issue with the transaction then here is where he should have said something. But he did not make an issue of it. So at this point in the transaction there has been no issue with the fact that the book was sold in a PGX holder. That is very important as far as I'm concerned. Say it out loud...at this point in the transaction there is no issue with the PGX slab.

 

So joey cracks it out of the PGX holder. It is now NOT A PGX BOOK. So the problems start after it is no longer in a PGX holder. The issues with Trey selling this comic book begin when the book is no longer a PGX book. The problem is not about grade. The problem is not about payment. The problem is not about service. And most importantly, the problem is not about PGX. The whole problem is a misunderstanding about feedback.

Silliest mess I ever saw. At least that's how I see it.

I disagree, but it makes for good TV.

[divad]

Changes we need to make:

 

1) As suggested by, I believe, Sky, we need to change the Forum Selling Guidelines to require any slabbed book being sold to have a clear, readable image of the label.

 

2) I believe selling non-CGC books undisclosed is an HOS offense. I think two separate instances is enough before an HOS vote is taken. But I am open to three instances as well.

 

The first instance would result in a warning to the seller that an HOS vote will be taken on the 2nd (or 3rd) subsequent attempt.

 

3) If someone does receive a non-CGC slabbed book, they cannot deslab it for their use and then bring "charges" against the seller.

 

Thoughts on this?

 

Yes. We could water it down even further so no one ever gets put on the list and it serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever.

 

See David...this is the kind of response I keep getting from you. One shot jabs because I guess you think I took your baby from you by consolidating the practices that had already been going on and making a list. About the only real changes there are the required PM to the person being nominated to give them a chance to respond. (or do you think that is too watered down?) And the 72 hour wait from the PM being sent.

 

Everything else reflected things that had gone on again and again. So tell me exactly where the watering down is.

 

Michael,

I swear you live in a vacuum.

One, the list was always a community thing, it was never "my baby". Your comments are not only inaccurate, but offensive.

Two, there never was a need for a nomination. The list worked based on the honesty of the poster (and interestingly enough the failure of the accused to complete the transaction).

Three, your whole 72-hour thing is ridiculous, as the original rules (as simple as they be) already had 30-days built into it.

Four, each of the things you propose above are already understood to be the rules of the board. It is known and enforced by the mods that non-CGC graded books are not allowed to be posted, or sold in the public forums. Period.

Gotta run,

d