PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[lscomics]

And this is exactly what the original complainant was worried about.

Fonzie from NYC with his song and then nothing.

A boardie has made an allegation (as I understand it) :

 

a) Money was paid for services not rendered.

 

b) No importance was given to this member until the PL was bought into play

 

c) Refund given makes it alright - usually yes - but geez,theres alot of time gone on here.

 

d) And this is terrible - A BOARD MEMBER HAS STATED - WITHOUT ANY DOUBT, THAT OTHER BOADIES HAVE ALSO BEEN THE VICTIM OF VERY SLOPPY SERVICE AND ARE NOW TOO INTIMIDATED TO TALK OPENLY.

 

Firstly - man up - its a squiggle on a book.

Secondly, Logan and others seem to corroborate this.

Why is God Of Thunder (who I have never had dealings with) given a pass?

 

I would love to know exactly what is going on, as would other noobs, before we send cash to this guy.

Fair question - no dog in this race - just would like a fair answer.

It's got a lot to do with the GoT offering sketch opps and people not wanting to speak up/out about any part of the service they're dissatisfied with thereby causing tension with GoT and having him turn them down on future sketch opps.

 

For the record, I have no problem with Adonis (GoT). At one point, probably a year or more ago, there was a thread about another facilitator that we had a bit of a disagreement in. We ended up talking on the phone after which time I thought everything was fine. Then came the tantrum in the last VCC discussion thread. That, quite honestly, came as a bit of a shock particularly since:

 

1) I was simply following the rules set forth by the VCC organizers.

2) It was over three comics I had listed for $5 each.

 

I found the whole thing ridiculous. I even went so far as to notify the mods about it for one simple reason. If this is the way a designated representative of CGC behaves do I really want to continue doing business with CGC? Especially since I never received so much as a "We'll look into it." response.

 

Are there SS facilitators out there that act in a manner which I'm sure goes against their agreement with CGC? I think that has been proven beyond a doubt. Does CGC give a rat's behind about it? Apparently not.

 

I don't bear any ill will towards GoT but I, for one, would never submit any books for his sketch opps or for SS based on the behavior he's exhibited.

 

[Mr.Diggler]

 

 

Why is God Of Thunder (who I have never had dealings with) given a pass?

It must be because he was the 2012 Forumite of the year.

[miraclemet]

... and having him (GoT) turn them down on future sketch opps.

 

Does this happen? I've never seen someone post an in a SS op offering and have it rescinded by the facilitator, but maybe it happens behind the scenes so the facilitator doesnt get in trouble for favoritism?

 

I could understand a facilitator turning down an from someone in the past who did not pay on time, but to me this sounds like a simple application of the Probation list, and the SS facilitators should just use the nomination/resolution process and then have a rule in their op that anyone who's been nominated by them for the PL due to non-payment is not eligible.

 

Otherwise anyones should be good.

 

Now if we are talking about non-Events (i.e. sig facilitation at a con, sketch pickup/submission etc) I could see how someone would not want to lose the good graces of the facilitator for future help with submissions, but again it sounds like if a facilitator was caught turning down a customer (for any reason other than previous payment problems), CGC would not be happy about that....

[miraclemet]

I've opened a thread over in the Signature Forum here.

 

I've asked if there are any documented SS Op standards that Facilitators are all held to or should be held to (a'la our simple marketplace rules).

 

We'll see what that gets... maybe I'm poking a bee hive... maybe I'll never be able to get a book signed via a facilitator again... we'll see....

[lscomics]

... and having him (GoT) turn them down on future sketch opps.

 

Does this happen? I've never seen someone post an in a SS op offering and have it rescinded by the facilitator, but maybe it happens behind the scenes so the facilitator doesnt get in trouble for favoritism?

 

I could understand a facilitator turning down an from someone in the past who did not pay on time, but to me this sounds like a simple application of the Probation list, and the SS facilitators should just use the nomination/resolution process and then have a rule in their op that anyone who's been nominated by them for the PL due to non-payment is not eligible.

 

Otherwise anyones should be good.

 

Now if we are talking about non-Events (i.e. sig facilitation at a con, sketch pickup/submission etc) I could see how someone would not want to lose the good graces of the facilitator for future help with submissions, but again it sounds like if a facilitator was caught turning down a customer (for any reason other than previous payment problems), CGC would not be happy about that....

I don't think it could happen as far as sketch opps posted in the SS forum go but there's plenty of signings and limited sketch opps that take place that aren't offered openly.

[miraclemet]

I'm not sure why he wouldn't be placed on the list until the book arrives at the very least.

 

You are right Branget:

 

3) Being Placed On The PL

 

b) If the accused responds in the Probation Discussion Thread and it is determined the conditions of the transaction was not met, they will be added to the PL.

 

 

and then subsequently:

4) Removal From The PL

 

b) If the accused makes full restitution to the satisfaction of the accuser, the accused will be removed from the PL.

 

[lscomics]

I've opened a thread over in the Signature Forum here.

 

I've asked if there are any documented SS Op standards that Facilitators are all held to or should be held to (a'la our simple marketplace rules).

 

We'll see what that gets... maybe I'm poking a bee hive... maybe I'll never be able to get a book signed via a facilitator again... we'll see....

It's a bit of a bee hive, no question about that. It's funny how these things come to light. You would think that a facilitator who in the past has chastised another for their lack of service quality/communication skills would go above and beyond to keep their customers in the loop and not leave PMs unopened and unanswered for months on end.

[joeypost]

I no longer take advantage of any SS opportunities because of this. I have seen it take the better part of a year for some people to get their SS books or sketches back. In part the blame rests with the artist since it sometimes takes months for him to complete his work. I believe the facilitator has little power to speed up the process once the artist has been paid in full.

 

In the past I have complained about the payment up front method. Really gives the artist no incentive to get things done in a timely manner. If they were given a drop dead date and payment is broken up into 2 chunks it would give the facilitator a little more control over TAT's on the sketches and signatures.

 

As of this moment I do not believe any guidelines exists based on the different factors involved in running an artist down getting them to mail back the books in a timely fashion and then get them into CGC's hands. U

 

Given the proliferation of facilitators and those offering private signings and sketch opportunities a simple set of rules should exist. Or at the very least updates to let everyone know what is going on.

 

Right now I have over $400.00 tied up in two sketches and I have no idea what is going on. In one of the cases, it is well over 3 months with zero communication. The last PM I received about it was asking me for payment, ater that nothing.

[lscomics]

I no longer take advantage of any SS opportunities because of this. I have seen it take the better part of a year for some people to get their SS books or sketches back. In part the blame rests with the artist since it sometimes takes months for him to complete his work. I believe the facilitator has little power to speed up the process once the artist has been paid in full.

 

In the past I have complained about the payment up front method. Really gives the artist no incentive to get things done in a timely manner. If they were given a drop dead date and payment is broken up into 2 chunks it would give the facilitator a little more control over TAT's on the sketches and signatures.

 

As of this moment I do not believe any guidelines exists based on the different factors involved in running an artist down getting them to mail back the books in a timely fashion and then get them into CGC's hands. U

 

Given the proliferation of facilitators and those offering private signings and sketch opportunities a simple set of rules should exist. Or at the very least updates to let everyone know what is going on.

 

Right now I have over $400.00 tied up in two sketches and I have no idea what is going on. In one of the cases, it is well over 3 months with zero communication. The last PM I received about it was asking me for payment, ater that nothing.

In this case though it's not the artist that caused the delay. By his own admission GoT is responsible. I think it's commendable that he's willing to accept the fault and refund the Fast Track fees but still a shame that it happened.

[miraclemet]

I no longer take advantage of any SS opportunities because of this. I have seen it take the better part of a year for some people to get their SS books or sketches back. In part the blame rests with the artist since it sometimes takes months for him to complete his work. I believe the facilitator has little power to speed up the process once the artist has been paid in full.

 

In the past I have complained about the payment up front method. Really gives the artist no incentive to get things done in a timely manner. If they were given a drop dead date and payment is broken up into 2 chunks it would give the facilitator a little more control over TAT's on the sketches and signatures.

 

As of this moment I do not believe any guidelines exists based on the different factors involved in running an artist down getting them to mail back the books in a timely fashion and then get them into CGC's hands. U

 

Given the proliferation of facilitators and those offering private signings and sketch opportunities a simple set of rules should exist. Or at the very least updates to let everyone know what is going on.

 

Right now I have over $400.00 tied up in two sketches and I have no idea what is going on. In one of the cases, it is well over 3 months with zero communication. The last PM I received about it was asking me for payment, ater that nothing.

 

All fair points Joey.

 

1. I think the facilitators (and the customers who pay for the sketches) are at the mercy of the artist, so it is tough to push requirements regarding payment. Many artists have gotten screwed doing work on spec and never getting a paycheck (or spending lots of their own time running after customers, publishers, etc to get paid). So I understand their hesitancy to take on work with out upfront payment. Customers get to decide if they are ok with that or not (Jim Lee wants upfront? No one complains cause they are desperate for a sketch, No-name artist wants upfront? Complaints)

 

2. I do think Facilitator communication should be a stated standard and be PL worthy if a facilitator is not meeting the stated expectation. If a facilitator says "there will be no updates on status until all books are returned, I will not respond to PMs" then the expectation is set, and the buyers can decide if thats ok for their money, and if not, they can not participate. To me the point is we need to tell Facilitators what expectations need to be set:

• 
  Payment options
  
• Timelines for shipping once the artist is done with the book
  
• Communication standards
  

Edited February 12, 2013 by Miraclemet

[A-DONIS]

I'm going to make things clear, and share it in the SS Forum

 

1. In no way shape or form, have I ever used intimidating or fear remarks against anyone at any time.

 

2. In regards to the satement made tha the research was made about me, and I'm "An Enforcer" is ridiculous. Anyone that's met me knows that I'm passive. I do get irritated.

 

3. The ability, or inability to ship out this book was none other than my fault. I've had issues in the past with this (branget's deal) and have managed to somewhat correct the problem. I can assure that from now on, any book subbed to CGC, will ship from CGC - UNLESS, at the request of the owner, the book be held.

 

4. Facilitators are held to a higher standard, which I hope to continue to deliver. Again, there are plenty of services out there to choose from. If you're not happy with the services given, there are other facilitators or dealers that would be more than happy to have you business.

 

5. PL List: If the terms are that I would be placed on the PL list untill the OP receives his book, then I'm willing to accept that. The OP agreed to make notification as soon as the book is received, granted I did not damage the slab intentionally.

 

 

If anyone can make any other suggestions on how to further remedy this, please let me know. I'm willing to listen.

 

 

[seanfingh]

 

I could understand a facilitator turning down an from someone in the past who did not pay on time, but to me this sounds like a simple application of the Probation list, and the SS facilitators should just use the nomination/resolution process and then have a rule in their op that anyone who's been nominated by them for the PL due to non-payment is not eligible.

 

Otherwise anyones should be good.

 

 

This issue goes back to handling expectations up front. If I ever did one (don't hold your breath) I would put the same language in there that I put in my sales threads - "I reserve the right not to sell to anyone that I don't want to." That way if I think someone is a flake or a weirdo, I don't have to deal with them. No way should an bind you if you state up front that you reserve the right to void it if you don't want to deal with the individual.

[miraclemet]

I'm going to make things clear, and share it in the SS Forum

 

1. In no way shape or form, have I ever used intimidating or fear remarks against anyone at any time.

 

2. In regards to the satement made tha the research was made about me, and I'm "An Enforcer" is ridiculous. Anyone that's met me knows that I'm passive. I do get irritated.

 

3. The ability, or inability to ship out this book was none other than my fault. I've had issues in the past with this (branget's deal) and have managed to somewhat correct the problem. I can assure that from now on, any book subbed to CGC, will ship from CGC - UNLESS, at the request of the owner, the book be held.

 

5. PL List: If the terms are that I would be placed on the PL list untill the OP receives his book, then I'm willing to accept that. The OP agreed to make notification as soon as the book is received, granted I did not damage the slab intentionally.

 

 

Hear you on these, and thank you for accepting the process as it stands. No process is perfect, but it functions decently to help maintain the overall community here. Good countermeasure on #3 so that the issue does not re-occur in the future.

 

 

4. Facilitators are held to a higher standard, which I hope to continue to deliver. Again, there are plenty of services out there to choose from. If you're not happy with the services given, there are other facilitators or dealers that would be more than happy to have you business.

 

What is the higher standard? Are you referring to the CGC standard (I dont know what it is, so I dont know what it is higher than). I do think a standard needs to be stated and adhered to over in the Signature Room forum for the Event Ops. And while you are correct there are many facilitators, not all facilitators have access to the same Cons and same artists, so its not as simple (sometimes) as just taking ones business elsewhere.

 

 

[A-DONIS]

I'm going to make things clear, and share it in the SS Forum

 

1. In no way shape or form, have I ever used intimidating or fear remarks against anyone at any time.

 

2. In regards to the satement made tha the research was made about me, and I'm "An Enforcer" is ridiculous. Anyone that's met me knows that I'm passive. I do get irritated.

 

3. The ability, or inability to ship out this book was none other than my fault. I've had issues in the past with this (branget's deal) and have managed to somewhat correct the problem. I can assure that from now on, any book subbed to CGC, will ship from CGC - UNLESS, at the request of the owner, the book be held.

 

5. PL List: If the terms are that I would be placed on the PL list untill the OP receives his book, then I'm willing to accept that. The OP agreed to make notification as soon as the book is received, granted I did not damage the slab intentionally.

 

 

Hear you on these, and thank you for accepting the process as it stands. No process is perfect, but it functions decently to help maintain the overall community here. Good countermeasure on #3 so that the issue does not re-occur in the future.

 

 

4. Facilitators are held to a higher standard, which I hope to continue to deliver. Again, there are plenty of services out there to choose from. If you're not happy with the services given, there are other facilitators or dealers that would be more than happy to have you business.

 

What is the higher standard? Are you referring to the CGC standard (I dont know what it is, so I dont know what it is higher than). I do think a standard needs to be stated and adhered to over in the Signature Room forum for the Event Ops. And while you are correct there are many facilitators, not all facilitators have access to the same Cons and same artists, so its not as simple (sometimes) as just taking ones business elsewhere.

 

 

You have to understand that there's always going to be an exception. Challenges with artist/creators always arise with dealing with mail aways. As with my situation, the only solution is to have the books ship to their owners via CGC. Unless a previous arrangement/understanding has been made between the customer and facilitator.

[lscomics]

Anyone that's met me knows that I'm passive. I do get irritated.

I don't want you to think I'm badgering you, that's not my intention at all, but this is a bit contradictory. I'm genuinely curious. In hindsight do you see anything inappropriate about your posting in the VCC Discussion Thread?

[A-DONIS]

Anyone that's met me knows that I'm passive. I do get irritated.

I don't want you to think I'm badgering you, that's not my intention at all, but this is a bit contradictory. I'm genuinely curious. In hindsight do you see anything inappropriate about your posting in the VCC Discussion Thread?

 

Yes I did and do now. I was mad and angry at a a situation which I had no control.

 

 

[miraclemet]

You have to understand that there's always going to be an exception. Challenges with artist/creators always arise with dealing with mail aways. As with my situation, the only solution is to have the books ship to their owners via CGC. Unless a previous arrangement/understanding has been made between the customer and facilitator.

 

I dont think you are understanding what I am driving for.

 

Sure there are exceptions, but you start from the standard otherwise every order is a unique one off leaving every customer guessing as to what to expect.

 

All Im pushing for is an outline of what items need to be addressed in each Sig/Sketch Op so that buyers know what they are getting into from the outset. Many facilitators already do this in some fashion, but by having a standard and being uniform we ensure that all Ops start with the same baseline of information. Similarly a stated expectation protects the Facilitator from crazy post-purchase requests from the buyer (or at least gives the facilitator the freedom to say no and point back to the Ops stated deliverables).

 

My goal is a process that protects both sides, or at least makes for an up-front set of expectations for both parties.

[A-DONIS]

Want to turn this over to the SS forum?

[KKyW]

 

 

 

this probation thread is better than last night's Walking Dead!

This is pretty much the best reply in this drama so far, and I couldn’t agree with you more.

 

 

 

 

Thank you! Thank you!

[N/A]

I'm going to make things clear, and share it in the SS Forum

 

1. In no way shape or form, have I ever used intimidating or fear remarks against anyone at any time.

 

2. In regards to the satement made tha the research was made about me, and I'm "An Enforcer" is ridiculous. Anyone that's met me knows that I'm passive. I do get irritated.

 

3. The ability, or inability to ship out this book was none other than my fault. I've had issues in the past with this (branget's deal) and have managed to somewhat correct the problem. I can assure that from now on, any book subbed to CGC, will ship from CGC - UNLESS, at the request of the owner, the book be held.

 

4. Facilitators are held to a higher standard, which I hope to continue to deliver. Again, there are plenty of services out there to choose from. If you're not happy with the services given, there are other facilitators or dealers that would be more than happy to have you business.

 

5. PL List: If the terms are that I would be placed on the PL list untill the OP receives his book, then I'm willing to accept that. The OP agreed to make notification as soon as the book is received, granted I did not damage the slab intentionally.

 

 

If anyone can make any other suggestions on how to further remedy this, please let me know. I'm willing to listen.

 

 

 

Personally I would refund the OP any fee he paid for the op but that's just me. After this post I don't see what else you can do. (thumbs u