PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Kitsune]

You have his paypal address?

 

Send him the money.

 

That was your obligation.

 

He stated he put on eBay so it's still unsure if he has it.

[bababooey]

I just humped the button for the first time

 

 

kitsune - edit that pic or your post will get blown away

[crassus]

1. kitsune agreed to buy something from RMA

2. kitsune threw conditions onto the purchase after the fact (end of June payment) which RMA (begrudgingly) agreed to.

3. after date passed, RMA asked kitsune if he was still interested in the book, to which kitsune threw additional conditions onto the transaction after not fulfilling the conditions in #2, which RMA didnt appear to agree to (payment after SDCC).

 

Facts I think...

A. Agreement was for payment by end of June (based on conditions in #2)

B. Both parties have 30 days to complete the transaction by the agreed upon terms (even those begrudgingly agreed to) before either party can make a PL nomination.

 

So I think technically that means that kitsune has until the end of this month to complete the transaction and meet his agreed to obligation.

 

RMA Im on your side that this guy is a poor buyer. Throwing up terms after the "I'll take it" is a sketchy way to start a transaction, much less his demeanor after that point. Dont think Im siding with him on this, please.

 

I know there's been an outstanding question in the past that when other terms are agreed to (specific payment dates) when does the 30 day clock start ticking? I think it was decided its when the payment date hits, so basedon that kitsune is not PL eligible yet (at least not for another 7 days).

 

Yes this is my understanding also (quoting the rules) "the 30 day clock begins from the time the agreed upon conditions were violated." So if he had until "the end of the month" of June, then the 30 day expires "end of July". Let us hope perhaps this can be resolved before then.

 

[Kitsune]

My head is spinning between this thread and the IM 1 9.4 thread.

 

So kitsune, if you never intended to buy the Gauntlet set when you threw up the "I must have" why didn't you say that to the good Dr? I took that as "I'll take it" also.

 

I'm new here so from my understanding if you put up this icon means it's the buy it now button.

 

Is there a thread about this icon and how we do business on this forum?

[RockMyAmadeus]

Please DELETE the posts containing personal information.

[miraclemet]

You have his paypal address?

 

Send him the money.

 

That was your obligation.

 

Is it that cut and dry at this point. He pays RMA, and RMA mails the book?

 

I agree there's a lot of chaff around this one.

 

But at the core its a book was supposed to be bought by end of June.

on July 1 the 30 day clock ticks down until he can be nominated for the PL.

Gun was jumped with a PL nomination notice (in my opinion) because there was a request for additional time. Right now I think the buyer is still within his window.

 

(again, Im not saying he did this any which way close to kosher or right, but by the letter of the PL and marketplace rules he's still within his window to complete the transaction)

 

I know RMA's not thrilled with him for reasons both specific to the transaction and to the poor communication. But there's nothing so egregious that the situation should supersede the current marketplace guidelines, I dont think (but hey, I'm easily swayed, correct me if I'm wrong).

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

1. kitsune agreed to buy something from RMA

2. kitsune threw conditions onto the purchase after the fact (end of June payment) which RMA (begrudgingly) agreed to.

3. after date passed, RMA asked kitsune if he was still interested in the book, to which kitsune threw additional conditions onto the transaction after not fulfilling the conditions in #2, which RMA didnt appear to agree to (payment after SDCC).

 

Facts I think...

A. Agreement was for payment by end of June (based on conditions in #2)

B. Both parties have 30 days to complete the transaction by the agreed upon terms (even those begrudgingly agreed to) before either party can make a PL nomination.

 

So I think technically that means that kitsune has until the end of this month to complete the transaction and meet his agreed to obligation.

 

RMA Im on your side that this guy is a poor buyer. Throwing up terms after the "I'll take it" is a sketchy way to start a transaction, much less his demeanor after that point. Dont think Im siding with him on this, please.

 

I know there's been an outstanding question in the past that when other terms are agreed to (specific payment dates) when does the 30 day clock start ticking? I think it was decided its when the payment date hits, so basedon that kitsune is not PL eligible yet (at least not for another 7 days).

 

Yes this is my understanding also (quoting the rules) "the 30 day clock begins from the time the agreed upon conditions were violated." So if he had until "the end of the month" of June, then the 30 day expires "end of July". Let us hope perhaps this can be resolved before then.

 

I accepted him altering the terms of the sale. I did not "agree" to it, because agreements are made PRIOR TO the deal, not after the fact. I simply had no choice if I wanted the transaction to be completed.

 

I was trying to graciously accomodate a customer, and that grace was taken advantage of.

 

The clock starts ticking with the unqualified unless arrangements are made PRIOR to that.

 

You don't get to make your own terms after the fact, and then that's "where the clock starts."

[bababooey]

My head is spinning between this thread and the IM 1 9.4 thread.

 

So kitsune, if you never intended to buy the Gauntlet set when you threw up the "I must have" why didn't you say that to the good Dr? I took that as "I'll take it" also.

 

I'm new here so from my understanding if you put up this icon means it's the buy it now button.

 

Is there a thread about this icon and how we do business on this forum?

When you post that icon it means "I'll take that book" and the PL rules give a buyer up to 30 days to pay from the time of posting to complete payment.

 

If you needed more time to pay than 30 days you should have discussed it with the seller prior to posting the

[RockMyAmadeus]

1. kitsune agreed to buy something from RMA

2. kitsune threw conditions onto the purchase after the fact (end of June payment) which RMA (begrudgingly) agreed to.

3. after date passed, RMA asked kitsune if he was still interested in the book, to which kitsune threw additional conditions onto the transaction after not fulfilling the conditions in #2, which RMA didnt appear to agree to (payment after SDCC).

 

Facts I think...

A. Agreement was for payment by end of June (based on conditions in #2)

B. Both parties have 30 days to complete the transaction by the agreed upon terms (even those begrudgingly agreed to) before either party can make a PL nomination.

 

So I think technically that means that kitsune has until the end of this month to complete the transaction and meet his agreed to obligation.

 

RMA Im on your side that this guy is a poor buyer. Throwing up terms after the "I'll take it" is a sketchy way to start a transaction, much less his demeanor after that point. Dont think Im siding with him on this, please.

 

I know there's been an outstanding question in the past that when other terms are agreed to (specific payment dates) when does the 30 day clock start ticking? I think it was decided its when the payment date hits, so basedon that kitsune is not PL eligible yet (at least not for another 7 days).

 

unfortunately we dont have a Probation List just for people lacking social or life skills.

 

my 2 cents, I would have said no to the after the fact conditions and put the book back as available in my sales thread. or once the 2nd request for time was made I would have asked to cancel the transaction with the buyer since it was obvious that his making payment was a hardship. Of course hindsight is 20/20...

 

sorry RMA

 

Never put or threw in conditions. I asked if I could and he agreed.

 

For instance:

 

You posted an unqualified in my sales thread.

 

THEN you asked if you could wait until the end of June.

[crassus]

1. kitsune agreed to buy something from RMA

2. kitsune threw conditions onto the purchase after the fact (end of June payment) which RMA (begrudgingly) agreed to.

3. after date passed, RMA asked kitsune if he was still interested in the book, to which kitsune threw additional conditions onto the transaction after not fulfilling the conditions in #2, which RMA didnt appear to agree to (payment after SDCC).

 

Facts I think...

A. Agreement was for payment by end of June (based on conditions in #2)

B. Both parties have 30 days to complete the transaction by the agreed upon terms (even those begrudgingly agreed to) before either party can make a PL nomination.

 

So I think technically that means that kitsune has until the end of this month to complete the transaction and meet his agreed to obligation.

 

RMA Im on your side that this guy is a poor buyer. Throwing up terms after the "I'll take it" is a sketchy way to start a transaction, much less his demeanor after that point. Dont think Im siding with him on this, please.

 

I know there's been an outstanding question in the past that when other terms are agreed to (specific payment dates) when does the 30 day clock start ticking? I think it was decided its when the payment date hits, so basedon that kitsune is not PL eligible yet (at least not for another 7 days).

 

Yes this is my understanding also (quoting the rules) "the 30 day clock begins from the time the agreed upon conditions were violated." So if he had until "the end of the month" of June, then the 30 day expires "end of July". Let us hope perhaps this can be resolved before then.

 

I accepted him altering the terms of the sale. I did not "agree" to it, because agreements are made PRIOR TO the deal, not after the fact. I simply had no choice if I wanted the transaction to be completed.

 

The clock starts ticking with the unqualified unless arrangements are made PRIOR to that.

 

You don't get to make your own terms after the fact, and then state that's "where the clock starts."

 

Respectfully, and I generally sympathize with your dislike of how this went down, you cannot so easily separate what you "accepted" from what you "agreed" to. You could have said "No" to any post-sale conditions.

[Kitsune]

1. kitsune agreed to buy something from RMA

2. kitsune threw conditions onto the purchase after the fact (end of June payment) which RMA (begrudgingly) agreed to.

3. after date passed, RMA asked kitsune if he was still interested in the book, to which kitsune threw additional conditions onto the transaction after not fulfilling the conditions in #2, which RMA didnt appear to agree to (payment after SDCC).

 

Facts I think...

A. Agreement was for payment by end of June (based on conditions in #2)

B. Both parties have 30 days to complete the transaction by the agreed upon terms (even those begrudgingly agreed to) before either party can make a PL nomination.

 

So I think technically that means that kitsune has until the end of this month to complete the transaction and meet his agreed to obligation.

 

RMA Im on your side that this guy is a poor buyer. Throwing up terms after the "I'll take it" is a sketchy way to start a transaction, much less his demeanor after that point. Dont think Im siding with him on this, please.

 

I know there's been an outstanding question in the past that when other terms are agreed to (specific payment dates) when does the 30 day clock start ticking? I think it was decided its when the payment date hits, so basedon that kitsune is not PL eligible yet (at least not for another 7 days).

 

unfortunately we dont have a Probation List just for people lacking social or life skills.

 

my 2 cents, I would have said no to the after the fact conditions and put the book back as available in my sales thread. or once the 2nd request for time was made I would have asked to cancel the transaction with the buyer since it was obvious that his making payment was a hardship. Of course hindsight is 20/20...

 

sorry RMA

 

Never put or threw in conditions. I asked if I could and he agreed.

 

For instance:

 

You posted an unqualified in my sales thread.

 

THEN you asked if you could wait until the end of June.

 

Yes I asked if I could pay at the end of June and you said what? You agreed did you not?

 

If you did not agree then you could have just stated pay now or within 3 days but you didn't. You agreed to me asking for time. I did not throw any conditions on purchasing, I only asked for permission and no terms where implied or stated on my end.

[Kitsune]

My head is spinning between this thread and the IM 1 9.4 thread.

 

So kitsune, if you never intended to buy the Gauntlet set when you threw up the "I must have" why didn't you say that to the good Dr? I took that as "I'll take it" also.

 

I'm new here so from my understanding if you put up this icon means it's the buy it now button.

 

Is there a thread about this icon and how we do business on this forum?

When you post that icon it means "I'll take that book" and the PL rules give a buyer up to 30 days to pay from the time of posting to complete payment.

 

If you needed more time to pay than 30 days you should have discussed it with the seller prior to posting the

 

This was a comment towards Mr. Ball's thread not yours. Apparently you didn't read the quote prior.

[mikenyc]

You have Polar Bear sized balls to accuse anyone of posting in bad faith.

 

Hopefully this situation will afford you the opportunity to rethink the use of the PL and continuing to do business with those who populate it.

 

 

 

[crassus]

You have his paypal address?

 

Send him the money.

 

That was your obligation.

 

Is it that cut and dry at this point. He pays RMA, and RMA mails the book?

 

I agree there's a lot of chaff around this one.

 

But at the core its a book was supposed to be bought by end of June.

on July 1 the 30 day clock ticks down until he can be nominated for the PL.

Gun was jumped with a PL nomination notice (in my opinion) because there was a request for additional time. Right now I think the buyer is still within his window.

 

(again, Im not saying he did this any which way close to kosher or right, but by the letter of the PL and marketplace rules he's still within his window to complete the transaction)

 

I know RMA's not thrilled with him for reasons both specific to the transaction and to the poor communication. But there's nothing so egregious that the situation should supersede the current marketplace guidelines, I dont think (but hey, I'm easily swayed, correct me if I'm wrong).

 

I agree completely

[miraclemet]

1. kitsune agreed to buy something from RMA

2. kitsune threw conditions onto the purchase after the fact (end of June payment) which RMA (begrudgingly) agreed to.

3. after date passed, RMA asked kitsune if he was still interested in the book, to which kitsune threw additional conditions onto the transaction after not fulfilling the conditions in #2, which RMA didnt appear to agree to (payment after SDCC).

 

Facts I think...

A. Agreement was for payment by end of June (based on conditions in #2)

B. Both parties have 30 days to complete the transaction by the agreed upon terms (even those begrudgingly agreed to) before either party can make a PL nomination.

 

So I think technically that means that kitsune has until the end of this month to complete the transaction and meet his agreed to obligation.

 

RMA Im on your side that this guy is a poor buyer. Throwing up terms after the "I'll take it" is a sketchy way to start a transaction, much less his demeanor after that point. Dont think Im siding with him on this, please.

 

I know there's been an outstanding question in the past that when other terms are agreed to (specific payment dates) when does the 30 day clock start ticking? I think it was decided its when the payment date hits, so basedon that kitsune is not PL eligible yet (at least not for another 7 days).

 

Yes this is my understanding also (quoting the rules) "the 30 day clock begins from the time the agreed upon conditions were violated." So if he had until "the end of the month" of June, then the 30 day expires "end of July". Let us hope perhaps this can be resolved before then.

 

I accepted him altering the terms of the sale. I did not "agree" to it, because agreements are made PRIOR TO the deal, not after the fact. I simply had no choice if I wanted the transaction to be completed.

 

The clock starts ticking with the unqualified unless arrangements are made PRIOR to that.

 

You don't get to make your own terms after the fact, and then state that's "where the clock starts."

 

thats getting into semantics of "accepting" vs "agreeing".

Amendments are agreed to all the time with contracts after the initial contract is signed, this is just a microscopic version of that.

 

We've talked about transactions with multiple amendments before (where timelines were extended multiple times). The general consensus was that the clocked started at the last deadline, not prior ones.

[bababooey]

The PL timing isn't relevant to any rights to the book that kitsune has - claiming a book a week before the end of June and saying you're going to pay in a week doesn't move any clocks, he's just paying within the standard 30 days.

 

All of the timing is irrelevant if RMA does not want to sell the book for whatever reason because he specified:

I reserve the right to sell to whomever I choose, just like everyone else.

 

If a seller posting this wants to back away from an he can.

[vader2001]

My head is spinning between this thread and the IM 1 9.4 thread.

 

So kitsune, if you never intended to buy the Gauntlet set when you threw up the "I must have" why didn't you say that to the good Dr? I took that as "I'll take it" also.

 

I'm new here so from my understanding if you put up this icon means it's the buy it now button.

 

Is there a thread about this icon and how we do business on this forum?

When you post that icon it means "I'll take that book" and the PL rules give a buyer up to 30 days to pay from the time of posting to complete payment.

 

If you needed more time to pay than 30 days you should have discussed it with the seller prior to posting the

 

This was a comment towards Mr. Ball's thread not yours. Apparently you didn't read the quote prior.

 

 

I would say that maybe you need to work on your communication. When you said "I must have" What would you expect it to mean?

[RockMyAmadeus]

1. kitsune agreed to buy something from RMA

2. kitsune threw conditions onto the purchase after the fact (end of June payment) which RMA (begrudgingly) agreed to.

3. after date passed, RMA asked kitsune if he was still interested in the book, to which kitsune threw additional conditions onto the transaction after not fulfilling the conditions in #2, which RMA didnt appear to agree to (payment after SDCC).

 

Facts I think...

A. Agreement was for payment by end of June (based on conditions in #2)

B. Both parties have 30 days to complete the transaction by the agreed upon terms (even those begrudgingly agreed to) before either party can make a PL nomination.

 

So I think technically that means that kitsune has until the end of this month to complete the transaction and meet his agreed to obligation.

 

RMA Im on your side that this guy is a poor buyer. Throwing up terms after the "I'll take it" is a sketchy way to start a transaction, much less his demeanor after that point. Dont think Im siding with him on this, please.

 

I know there's been an outstanding question in the past that when other terms are agreed to (specific payment dates) when does the 30 day clock start ticking? I think it was decided its when the payment date hits, so basedon that kitsune is not PL eligible yet (at least not for another 7 days).

 

Yes this is my understanding also (quoting the rules) "the 30 day clock begins from the time the agreed upon conditions were violated." So if he had until "the end of the month" of June, then the 30 day expires "end of July". Let us hope perhaps this can be resolved before then.

 

I accepted him altering the terms of the sale. I did not "agree" to it, because agreements are made PRIOR TO the deal, not after the fact. I simply had no choice if I wanted the transaction to be completed.

 

The clock starts ticking with the unqualified unless arrangements are made PRIOR to that.

 

You don't get to make your own terms after the fact, and then state that's "where the clock starts."

 

Respectfully, and I generally sympathize with your dislike of how this went down, you cannot so easily separate what you "accepted" from what you "agreed" to. You could have said "No" to any post-sale conditions.

 

I could have, but I do like to be accomodating if I can. I can easily differentiate between agreements (which are arranged prior to inking the deal) and acceptance of terms after the fact ("oh, by the way, would you mind...") because I really don't have much choice if I'm being a good businessman.

 

Regardless of the quibble over "agree" and "accept", the point remains that the clock started ticking at the unqualified , not after-the-fact acceptance of additional terms.

 

 

 

[miraclemet]

The PL timing isn't relevant to any rights to the book that kitsune has - claiming a book a week before the end of June and saying you're going to pay in a week doesn't move any clocks, he's just paying within the standard 30 days.

 

All of the timing is irrelevant if RMA does not want to sell the book for whatever reason because he specified:

I reserve the right to sell to whomever I choose, just like everyone else.

 

If a seller posting this wants to back away from an he can.

 

True, a seller can state his terms.

And I've always agreed to that approach (as long as its stated)

 

But can a seller back out at any point even after they've agreed/accepted someone's ?

Can they back out 10 days later? 29 days later?

It looked like RMA accepted kitsune as a buyer at the time of the and even after the request for payment terms beyond the unconditional

[RockMyAmadeus]

And all of this is academic. I accept the conditions of the PL that if a buyer makes an offer to pay...even though multiple offers to pay had already been made, and then not honored...he cannot be placed on the PL.

 

I will not sell him this book, and so kitsune does not go on the PL, because he now has no way of "making it right." I accept that. He had 30 days to pay, and he chose not to. Nothing was stopping him from sending payment. Had I listed and sold the book elsewhere (I did not), I could have simply refunded his money.

 

He made no good faith effort to honor his word.