PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Menace]

For anyone who missed it MENACE is being nominated for the HOS. Vote is on page 1990

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7234272&fpart=1990

 

And he already hit the notify moderator button on the poll.

 

I guess he feels we shouldn't follow our own guidelines.

 

 

Didn't you know he is above the rules??? How else could he still operate as a facilitator for CGC with all of the complaints on him

 

Amazing coincidence, or caught in the act?

 

There were at least six brand new boardies, all with 0 posts, all signed up during June of this year, looking at this thread during the time at least 3 of the no votes went up.

 

Mods, will you please look into the following accounts for possible shilling?

 

starbuck1984bsg

spaceballsBrooks

deadpool197834

profx198743

 

Surely, nobody here would create shill accounts to mess with a poll.

 

I didn't even vote myself

 

Yes mods please look into all of this.

[joecgcmaniac]

For anyone who missed it MENACE is being nominated for the HOS. Vote is on page 1990

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7234272&fpart=1990

 

And he already hit the notify moderator button on the poll.

 

I guess he feels we shouldn't follow our own guidelines.

 

 

Didn't you know he is above the rules??? How else could he still operate as a facilitator for CGC with all of the complaints on him

 

Amazing coincidence, or caught in the act?

 

There were at least six brand new boardies, all with 0 posts, all signed up during June of this year, looking at this thread during the time at least 3 of the no votes went up.

 

Mods, will you please look into the following accounts for possible shilling?

 

starbuck1984bsg

spaceballsBrooks

deadpool197834

profx198743

 

Surely, nobody here would create shill accounts to mess with a poll.

 

I didn't even vote myself

 

Yes mods please look into all of this.

 

I don't know why you "notified" on the poll, it was brought up many times that it should be started.

[joecgcmaniac]

30 votes so far, 80% for H.O.S. inclusion, 20% against.

 

 

[TheMightyJohn]

Yeah I will be adding this to every page.

 

For anyone who missed it MENACE is being nominated for the HOS. Vote is on page 1990

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7234272&fpart=1990

[Bosco685]

Amazing coincidence, or caught in the act?

 

There were at least six brand new boardies, all with 0 posts, all signed up during June of this year, looking at this thread during the time at least 3 of the no votes went up.

 

Mods, will you please look into the following accounts for possible shilling?

 

starbuck1984bsg

spaceballsBrooks

deadpool197834

profx198743

capandbucky18946

cyclops1987oneye

fastestmanalive43

 

Surely, nobody here would create shill accounts to mess with a poll.

 

I actually checked this the other day because of Solarcadet's poll count to see if there was any trend or major shift in enrollments. Other than a slight shift on 12/4 and 12/6 by maybe 1-2 additional enrollments, there was no massive spike compared to other days/weeks.

 

[Bosco685]

Speaking of which...

 

The stats so far

 

[crassus]

Let's all just vote for HOS and be done with it. The dude had a rep long before this. In all the times he has screwed over buyers he still has yet to learn or improve his dealings. We don;t need people like him on here especially since he is a facilitator and chooses to handle business with us this way.

 

I realize that for those involved this is self-evident, but for the rest of us who also feel a responsibility to participate and vote, some summary of his dealings is necessary to demonstrate a clear pattern of abuses and justify HoS. I'm assuming this is about something more than poor customer service.

 

 

My understanding is that Menace is a facilitator who has been authorized to be a witness for CGC. While not an employee of CGC he does enjoy certain benefits, including the ability to witness sketches and signatures and then submit them for Yellow Label. This can be a very lucrative business and it seems that several boardies are upset that he continues to maintain this status granted by CGC even though there are numerous complaints about him.

 

Facilitators and witnesses are two different things. Witnesses are either CGC Employees or individuals under contract with CGC to witness for a specific event (CAWs). Facilitators act as liaisons between s customers and CGC to facilitate the SS process. They are subject to a code of conduct.

 

Has Menace broken this code?

[MetalPSI]

Let's all just vote for HOS and be done with it. The dude had a rep long before this. In all the times he has screwed over buyers he still has yet to learn or improve his dealings. We don;t need people like him on here especially since he is a facilitator and chooses to handle business with us this way.

 

I realize that for those involved this is self-evident, but for the rest of us who also feel a responsibility to participate and vote, some summary of his dealings is necessary to demonstrate a clear pattern of abuses and justify HoS. I'm assuming this is about something more than poor customer service.

 

 

My understanding is that Menace is a facilitator who has been authorized to be a witness for CGC. While not an employee of CGC he does enjoy certain benefits, including the ability to witness sketches and signatures and then submit them for Yellow Label. This can be a very lucrative business and it seems that several boardies are upset that he continues to maintain this status granted by CGC even though there are numerous complaints about him.

 

Facilitators and witnesses are two different things. Witnesses are either CGC Employees or individuals under contract with CGC to witness for a specific event (CAWs). Facilitators act as liaisons between s customers and CGC to facilitate the SS process. They are subject to a code of conduct.

 

Has Menace broken this code?

 

But it says the book was a mislabel and the top sticker said 9.8 and the label said 9.6?

 

Is the assumption that he just put a 9.8 sticker on top or is the general thought it was an accident by CGC and was in fact a 9.8?

 

 

 

 

Don't forget, he screwed this buyer a second way also...

 

 

Please add Menace to the probation thread. It has been 72 hrs with no response to my new pm I created in regards to my Young SS 9.8.

 

I contacted Medina on Facebook. All the sketches are finished for the opp. Jake has not gotten in touch with him on how to send them to CGC. So I am only requesting probation thread for my Young SS book. Hopefully, the Medina stuff will be resolved soon.

 

In this instance, an artist has completed sketches, and has been waiting for Menace to contact him to be able to send the books to CGC. Seems like Menace doesn't want to respond to anybody either via PM or e-mail.

 

Yep, he's a gem all right.

 

He is NOT doing the job he is supposed to be doing. You cannot run a business offering a service, take people's money, then not do it.

[crassus]

For how long have the Medina sketches been ready and waiting?

[Ryan.]

I've had a different artist tell me personally that he too had to wait a very long time for Menace to finish the administrative work to get sketches into the hands of customers months after the actual sketching was completed.

[miraclemet]

Question: Since SS Ops run thru the Signature sub-forum, and we're talking about the Marketplace HOS/PL... its not like a Marketplace PL/HOS designation will stop him from facilitating sketch ops, no?

 

Or does the Sig forum adhere to the HOS/PL? I know I've seen occasional people who sign up for an Op get called out for "hey how bout you take care of ______ before signing up for a sig op if you have the $$"

 

but I've not seen it done with a facilitator.

 

 

[miraclemet]

I mean heck, for the fisaco it was/is Castrillio should live on the HOS permanently.

[asteroid-comix]

Question: Since SS Ops run thru the Signature sub-forum, and we're talking about the Marketplace HOS/PL... its not like a Marketplace PL/HOS designation will stop him from facilitating sketch ops, no?

 

Or does the Sig forum adhere to the HOS/PL? I know I've seen occasional people who sign up for an Op get called out for "hey how bout you take care of ______ before signing up for a sig op if you have the $$"

 

but I've not seen it done with a facilitator.

 

 

I thought they were all subject to the HOS/PL. Folks can end up on the lists because of an eBay transaction now, why not the Sig sub-forum?

[crassus]

I thought they were all subject to the HOS/PL. Folks can end up on the lists because of an eBay transaction now, why not the Sig sub-forum?

 

+1 I've always assumed its of universal application.

[Bio-Rupp]

Not taking sides...and really don't mean to get all "Roy" here...but I'm not ready to vote just yet.

 

I'm seeing Menace as an individual who has had some problems getting his sig opp to go in a linear pattern. Problems with CGC grades, mis-mailings, emails & PMs weren't answered and communication with buyers appears to have been ziltch. It appears to be a lot of problems

 

J DUB bought his issue with Menace here... and he has been made whole via a late ( EXTREMELY LATE ) refund. Seller has acknowledged his slack... and fulfilled the aspect of a return.

 

That said, shouldn't HOS be reserved for the truly "worst of the worst"? Does Menace really represent that aspect of the hobby? I just can't say that he does... at least not yet.

 

While Menace hasn't won any new customers over here... or old one's for that matter... has he REALLY shown the "worst" of what it is to be included on this list?

 

Let's use an example...

 

Nothing against Anthony Castrillo... but if it wasn't for Speedy taking his own time (on repeated occasions)... then wouldn't AC would be burning in HOS hell right now for non-return of opps and way overdue refunds? I believe so. He's not on the list... nor has he ever been that I can remember.

 

All I'm saying is mistakes and delays do happen... and sometimes happen repeatedly. It's how you handle them when they arise is what brings your character into play.

 

Menace could have responded sooner, which is on him... but did he make J DUB whole again? It appears he did, regardless of weather he did it only because he was threatened with inclusion on either the PL or HOS list. I have no idea

 

All I see is someone who had his discretion brought to his attention in this thread, and him correcting his mistake.

 

I understand J DUB's frustration too. A friend and I chased Rich Buckler for over three years trying to get a pre-paid commission completed. So I can relate to why he is upset.

 

Now if I'm missing something and Menace didn't make it right concerning other buyers in a previous SS opp, meaning a return or a refund to any participants in said previous SS opp... then he undoubtedly needs to be on a list.

 

PL / HOS or not... people are definitely now aware of possible problems regarding Menace's ability to fulfill orders concerning SS opps.

 

This rash of board problems lately (Symbiotic, Solarcadet and now Menace) has really brought out a mob rules mentality as of late.

 

Should each of these examples be chalked up as inexperienced seller mistakes or out and out moronic decisions? Who knows? I, personally, just can't muster up enough spew to score them as anything but being extremely unprofessional in matters concerning selling here.

 

All that said...one thing that I do not like is any accused seller/buyer acting nonchalant or flippant about a problem being brought to the PL discussions board. I would HIGHLY advise anyone who's transaction has been put in question and discussed here, to treat said discussion AND THIS THREAD with respect. After all, this is YOUR public "trial" and how you handle yourself here will definitely determine any outcome that occurs.

 

Maybe I am getting a more "Royistic" view of things as of late... I'm not sure. All I do know is if the accused tries to make amends, even after repeated mistakes, at least he's trying... and not all is lost regarding his character.

 

xxx ooo

 

Rupp

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jaybuck43]

Rupp:

I posted this yesterday morning and I think it may have been lost in a deluge of other posts but would love to hear people's thoughts on these ideas because it sounds to me, based on menaces post that he should now be removed from the PL. I do need J Dubb to confirm receipt of his full refund.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7231556#Post7231556

[crassus]

 

That said, shouldn't HOS be reserved for the truly "worst of the worst"? Does Menace really represent that aspect of the hobby? I just can't say that he does... at least not yet.

 

I'm in the same place with this.

[Bio-Rupp]

Rupp:

I posted this yesterday morning and I think it may have been lost in a deluge of other posts but would love to hear people's thoughts on these ideas because it sounds to me, based on menaces post that he should now be removed from the PL. I do need J Dubb to confirm receipt of his full refund.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7231556#Post7231556

 

I personally think your idea is great in theory Jaybuck... its been brought up in different forms before.

 

Dr. Balls and I had a similar idea months back that simply used the existing kudos thread and a simple green check for completed transactions that went off without a hitch... and a simple red check for completed transactions that occurred with problems.

 

We stated that a "completed" transaction as to pertaining to a agreement that had an end result in either the buyer getting what he/she ordered... or getting a refund.

 

It was left up to whoever read the kudos to privately PM the person who left the feedback and ask their opinion on how the transaction went.

 

All of this fully within the guidelines that CGC has put forth for a Kudos thread.

 

Your idea is just as good as any other... only problem is it adds another step of complexity that CGC just doesn't want to deal with concerning an area that we are supposed to self police.

[Darrell F]

But it says the book was a mislabel and the top sticker said 9.8 and the label said 9.6?

 

Is the assumption that he just put a 9.8 sticker on top or is the general thought it was an accident by CGC and was in fact a 9.8?

the small label on top said 9.8 but the main label and the certification look up said 9.6. It was a mistake at the start I'm sure on jakes part. The problem comes when he says he got it back and never does anything about a refund or replacement

[Sqeggs]

Rupp:

I posted this yesterday morning and I think it may have been lost in a deluge of other posts but would love to hear people's thoughts on these ideas because it sounds to me, based on menaces post that he should now be removed from the PL. I do need J Dubb to confirm receipt of his full refund.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7231556#Post7231556

 

He gets put on the PL last night at 10 pm and now you want to take him off this morning? I believe somebody else got put on the PL at something like 2 am eastern time a couple of weeks back (although I lost track of how that one turned out). Sounds like maybe things are moving a little too fast here lately.