PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[PovertyRow]

My mistake above, I did not mean to say 4Comix. 4Comix was separate drama, but the actual nomination is for Seerojas.

 

I know that Dutch has said he is over it a few times, but that may be because he hasn't seen either a yes or no as far as the nomination. I would be tempted to say that it didnt matter since it was over a year ago, but Seerojas was in this thread just a couple of weeks ago.

 

Here is the link to the original nomination. I have no idea if it is a worthy nomination or not and would have to go reread all of that stuff again tomorrow to see. He originally nominated him to the HOS which obviously was a bit extreme....

 

Dutch nomination of Seerojas

 

Good grief.... Ok, as soon as he made his nomination it went into 30 pages of Adonis not shipping his stuff (unrelated topic), so here is the follow-up two months later.

 

Dutch part 2

 

I dont have the energy to read more today.

 

 

Thanks!!! If Dutch okays it I will add him to the PL.

[bababooey]

Before you do that you should clarify the damage issue & share it here.

 

His original nomination was based on a $55 e-bay list price he wasn't prepared to pay, he then got the book from someone here, Dutch74 has confirmed he got the book he needed for his set.

 

Prior to this falling into the shadows a year ago, the damage claim dropped to $30 bucks and no nomination...no one knew he got nothing from seerojas for a year.

 

Now, his latest damage claim is for $110 ($55 times two) once for the unsent book that he feels is once again worth $55 plus he wants two times value based on waiting.

 

Today the book is available as a BIN for $30 and other versions regularly auction for slightly over cover price.

 

When he actually got the book, we have no idea what he paid.

 

Also even though seerojas seems to be somewhat challenged with English, his original complete 666 "set" was short several books, he filled out a few of them which demonstrates to me he's not a total weasel.

 

I don't support the nomination as is since it seems like the damages are being calculated out of thin air because "that's what the nominator says they want"

 

When you load in some of the collector peculiarities into assessing damages, we are irrational - ie -it's a graded 8.5 but had a stain, the 150 books are useless to me if I only get 149 of them, the artist signed in blue not red, sure it's a perfect copy but look at that miswrap, the picture showed the red background version of NM 87 not the orange one, this Marvel Tales 1 has no ads on the back of it etc..etc..

 

When emotion is driving damage demands then facts work better than letting a damage claim come from thin air and aggravation to set a bad precedent.

[jsilverjanet]

Before you do that you should clarify the damage issue & share it here.

 

His original nomination was based on a $55 e-bay list price he wasn't prepared to pay, he then got the book from someone here, Dutch74 has confirmed he got the book he needed for his set.

 

Prior to this falling into the shadows a year ago, the damage claim dropped to $30 bucks and no nomination...no one knew he got nothing from seerojas for a year.

 

Now, his latest damage claim is for $110 ($55 times two) once for the unsent book that he feels is once again worth $55 plus he wants two times value based on waiting.

 

Today the book is available as a BIN for $30 and other versions regularly auction for slightly over cover price.

 

When he actually got the book, we have no idea what he paid.

 

Also even though seerojas seems to be somewhat challenged with English, his original complete 666 "set" was short several books, he filled out a few of them which demonstrates to me he's not a total weasel.

 

I don't support the nomination as is since it seems like the damages are being calculated out of thin air because "that's what the nominator says they want"

 

When you load in some of the collector peculiarities into assessing damages, we are irrational - ie -it's a graded 8.5 but had a stain, the 150 books are useless to me if I only get 149 of them, the artist signed in blue not red, sure it's a perfect copy but look at that miswrap, the picture showed the red background version of NM 87 not the orange one, this Marvel Tales 1 has no ads on the back of it etc..etc..

 

When emotion is driving damage demands then facts work better than letting a damage claim come from thin air and aggravation to set a bad precedent.

+1

 

 

[jsilverjanet]

My mistake above, I did not mean to say 4Comix. 4Comix was separate drama, but the actual nomination is for Seerojas.

 

I know that Dutch has said he is over it a few times, but that may be because he hasn't seen either a yes or no as far as the nomination. I would be tempted to say that it didnt matter since it was over a year ago, but Seerojas was in this thread just a couple of weeks ago.

 

Here is the link to the original nomination. I have no idea if it is a worthy nomination or not and would have to go reread all of that stuff again tomorrow to see. He originally nominated him to the HOS which obviously was a bit extreme....

 

Dutch nomination of Seerojas

 

Good grief.... Ok, as soon as he made his nomination it went into 30 pages of Adonis not shipping his stuff (unrelated topic), so here is the follow-up two months later.

 

Dutch part 2

 

I dont have the energy to read more today.

 

 

who did Adonis not ship to?

[CAHokie]

My mistake above, I did not mean to say 4Comix. 4Comix was separate drama, but the actual nomination is for Seerojas.

 

I know that Dutch has said he is over it a few times, but that may be because he hasn't seen either a yes or no as far as the nomination. I would be tempted to say that it didnt matter since it was over a year ago, but Seerojas was in this thread just a couple of weeks ago.

 

Here is the link to the original nomination. I have no idea if it is a worthy nomination or not and would have to go reread all of that stuff again tomorrow to see. He originally nominated him to the HOS which obviously was a bit extreme....

 

Dutch nomination of Seerojas

 

Good grief.... Ok, as soon as he made his nomination it went into 30 pages of Adonis not shipping his stuff (unrelated topic), so here is the follow-up two months later.

 

Dutch part 2

 

I dont have the energy to read more today.

 

 

 

 

who did Adonis not ship to?

 

 

 

 

 

Everyone! (Or no one depending on how you look at it).

[Red84]

I also am against the nomination. There has to be some sort of statue of limitations on these things. He had the opportunity to put him on the list, waivered and is now back a year later. It's silly at this point.

[jaybuck43]

I also am against the nomination. There has to be some sort of statue of limitations on these things. He had the opportunity to put him on the list, waivered and is now back a year later. It's silly at this point.

 

Vetoed. He came back, said he would make restitution and then didn't. He can be nominated for not paying the refund he said he would.

[A-DONIS]

My mistake above, I did not mean to say 4Comix. 4Comix was separate drama, but the actual nomination is for Seerojas.

 

I know that Dutch has said he is over it a few times, but that may be because he hasn't seen either a yes or no as far as the nomination. I would be tempted to say that it didnt matter since it was over a year ago, but Seerojas was in this thread just a couple of weeks ago.

 

Here is the link to the original nomination. I have no idea if it is a worthy nomination or not and would have to go reread all of that stuff again tomorrow to see. He originally nominated him to the HOS which obviously was a bit extreme....

 

Dutch nomination of Seerojas

 

Good grief.... Ok, as soon as he made his nomination it went into 30 pages of Adonis not shipping his stuff (unrelated topic), so here is the follow-up two months later.

 

Dutch part 2

 

I dont have the energy to read more today.

 

 

 

 

who did Adonis not ship to?

 

 

 

 

 

Everyone! (Or no one depending on how you look at it).

 

Got jokes, eh?

[CAHokie]

Oh C'mon that was sort of funny! I was downplaying the situation.

[KPR Comics]

Adonis?

[A-DONIS]

Oh C'mon that was sort of funny! I was downplaying the situation.

 

Yeah no worries.

[PovertyRow]

I also am against the nomination. There has to be some sort of statue of limitations on these things. He had the opportunity to put him on the list, waivered and is now back a year later. It's silly at this point.

 

Vetoed. He came back, said he would make restitution and then didn't. He can be nominated for not paying the refund he said he would.

 

I am seeing a couple of things here that say Dutch refused payment or that books were offered. A confusing muck.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=80&Number=9046604&Searchpage=1&Main=163911&Words=money+seerojas&topic=0&Search=true#Post9046604

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=80&Number=9046463&Searchpage=1&Main=163911&Words=money+seerojas&topic=0&Search=true#Post9046463

 

It would be nice if both parties could come here and work this out.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2016 by PovertyRow

[bababooey]

I also am against the nomination. There has to be some sort of statue of limitations on these things. He had the opportunity to put him on the list, waivered and is now back a year later. It's silly at this point.

 

Vetoed. He came back, said he would make restitution and then didn't. He can be nominated for not paying the refund he said he would.

 

I'd like to see some screenshots of the discussion emails to ensure the language barrier and misconception that he was already on list weren't unfairly leveraged to extract an agreement to compensation at almost four times the current "market value" (as per the opinions of others who supported the unsuccessful nomination last year) - check hoookie's links

 

Sumo'd

 

 

[PovertyRow]

Regarding a Statute Of Limitations. At this point there isn't one. I do feel, along with many here, there should be one but it was neglected when we setup the original rule set.

 

In the past, when the rules were created or changed, people offered suggestions, we discussed them, etc. I acted as a stenographer compiling them and trying to get a general agreement when differing opinions occurred. I compiled them into the list format and offered the final version for approval via vote to the boards. We went through a few versions and it was a lengthy and involved process. When it was completed and approved I sent the final to Arch, who created a locked topic and put the rules there.

 

Statute of limitations was brought up in last summer. I asked Arch to create a seperate topic to discuss PL/HOS Rule changes as it was mucking up the nominations area. He did. It is here:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=8667940&fpart=1

 

It lasted about 5 weeks then nothing. What DID come out of it was getting a return policy added to the Guidelines. The concept of a statute of limitations was part of the discussion but nothing was finalized.

 

So if we want to re-return to changing the rules it may take a little while but will be worth it in the long run. Many regulars were not here when the existing rules were being created. It would be good to get their voices as well. It would be best if we spend a little time working through what needs changing and make a single submission to Arch.

 

 

[Dutch74]

Thx for all the PM's and a happy 2016 to all of you.

 

I bought an ASM666 set from Seerojas for $1700 on 7-Jul-2014. The set was incomplete and remained so after months of (40) e-mails and promises. So in December 2014 I decided to put this story on the board. At the same time - 27-dec-2014 - I sent Seerojas a PM, summarizing the history of our issue which I had also posted here. I also wrote: 'This is your final chance to formally respond to my complaint, otherwise I will try to get you put on the HOS-list of this forum'. Obviously, no solution was reached.

 

PL or HOS: at that time I wasn't aware of the difference and it doesn't matter to me, I just want people to know who this guy Seerojas is.

 

Nothing happened on the board as well, so I let it go as I had better things to do. Meaning: I gave up. Then 1 year later Seerojas returns and makes a lot of fuss. He PM's me with an offer of $55 restitution and another $55 to make things right. To make this clear: it was his offer, not my demand and I didn't take the effort to check if this amount was relevant or not. I refused his offer as I didn't believe he would live up to his promise. Then I changed my mind, as it would demonstrate to the board that this guy does not keep his promises. I sent him a PM that I accepted his offer and of course I didn't hear anything from him after that.

 

If Babaooey and Jsilverjanet say that there isn't enough reason for adding Seerojas to the PL, that's fine with me. Apparently they don't have problems with buying things that turn out to be incomplete.

 

That's it for me. I have done my best to share my experience with Seerojas and that's all I think you can expect from me.

 

best, E

 

[ChiSoxFan]

Thx for all the PM's and a happy 2016 to all of you.

 

I bought an ASM666 set from Seerojas for $1700 on 7-Jul-2014. The set was incomplete and remained so after months of (40) e-mails and promises. So in December 2014 I decided to put this story on the board. At the same time - 27-dec-2014 - I sent Seerojas a PM, summarizing the history of our issue which I had also posted here. I also wrote: 'This is your final chance to formally respond to my complaint, otherwise I will try to get you put on the HOS-list of this forum'. Obviously, no solution was reached.

 

PL or HOS: at that time I wasn't aware of the difference and it doesn't matter to me, I just want people to know who this guy Seerojas is.

 

Nothing happened on the board as well, so I let it go as I had better things to do. Meaning: I gave up. Then 1 year later Seerojas returns and makes a lot of fuss. He PM's me with an offer of $55 restitution and another $55 to make things right. To make this clear: it was his offer, not my demand and I didn't take the effort to check if this amount was relevant or not. I refused his offer as I didn't believe he would live up to his promise. Then I changed my mind, as it would demonstrate to the board that this guy does not keep his promises. I sent him a PM that I accepted his offer and of course I didn't hear anything from him after that.

 

If Babaooey and Jsilverjanet say that there isn't enough reason for adding Seerojas to the PL, that's fine with me. Apparently they don't have problems with buying things that turn out to be incomplete.

 

That's it for me. I have done my best to share my experience with Seerojas and that's all I think you can expect from me.

 

best, E

 

Sharing a bad experience here is definitely something that's appreciated. When I went back myself in the thread to remember what had happened, I found that I already have Seerojas on ignore (my way of making sure I keep track of potential problem people even before they make their way to the Probation List). I'm guessing I'm not the only one (and I probably did so following your initial complaint about him), so in that respect, if you wanted to warn the community (and see some form of "justice" done in the form of lost transactions for Seerojas, then you've likely done that.

 

That said, your comment

 

Nothing happened on the board as well, so I let it go as I had better things to do. Meaning: I gave up

 

places some responsibility (little as it may be) for his lack of being on the PL -- if there needed to be any assigned (and there doesn't) -- on inaction and inevitably indifference by you. The details of your transaction with Seerojas as you described them certainly would have warranted a PL spot for him at the time, but as others have pointed out, unfortunately you were not the only one having an issue with a board member back then. While it's a case of bad timing that your issue was lost in the other discussions going on then, if the ultimate goal was to put him on the PL, then I can only say that sometimes the case has to be brought back into the consciousness of the board members here if it gets inadvertently bumped into the background. Letting it go gives the impression to people that the issue has either been solved or the aggrieved party isn't interested in continuing on the PL path.

 

The point of my bringing this up is that, while no one would fault you for being aggravated at the lack of progress at putting Seerojas on the PL, you would be incorrect if you believe that a large number of board members are not interested in seeing resolutions to these situations -- or your particular situation -- come about. And you would be also incorrect -- and will be faulted -- for making subtle swipes at the characters of people like Hector (Jsilverjanet -- who has been as good a boardie to deal with here as they've come in my multiple interactions with him) and babaooey with comments like these

 

Apparently they don't have problems with buying things that turn out to be incomplete.

 

when they've only asked for further clarification regarding the details of a screwed-up transaction from a year ago, hardly a request that should be deemed unreasonable. As someone who's watched these things play out at least five years longer than you have, I can assure you that you're nowhere near the first person to be asked to clarify further about details on a PL matter, and you'll be nowhere near the last. And reactions like the quote above won't gain you support in the matter, but you'll have people like myself updating their "private lists" with another name instead.

[Securitybob]

In response to Adam's request of PL for me I completely AGREE I should be placed on the list. I have been so wrapped up in everything going on that I haven't had a chance to get on here in almost 11 weeks to respond to questions. Reasons I should be on here stretch more than the Eastman opp and until I can set the status back to clear I will not take another commission request nor sell on the boards. No need for voting, or large discussions of why or why not I whole heartedly believe until I can get everything done that j do belong on here.

 

The Eastman opp:

Yes SDCC was a huge sketch opportunity and almost everything has been completed and turned into CGC. If you check with Doug (dscott) he is just now receiving the last of his order from San Diego and I'm really trying to get this one completed. I have three large scale commissions to include Adam's request and I'll finally be done with SDCC.

 

The Hawaii Eastman opp:

I am waiting on 10 commissions left for it to be completed. These are 10 full body commissions and not part of the opp conducted on here. The ones completed were some different commission requests such as Nightwing Turtle, Harley Quinn Turtle, Batman, and several others which were completed as can be verified by Adonis (Not sure what he is called now) and Yaw (yagyare) who were in the hotel room while he was drawing these for everyone.

 

Someone asked why I took commissions at NYCC, I did not. Darrel F happened to accompany me to Kevin's hotel to pick up some commissions as well as books signed and asked me if I could ask him on the spot. That was the only commission done at that show by Kevin outside of the small stand in line he did at IDWs booth.

 

It's because of being behind by the 13 commissions that I did not take any requests for Canada, NYCC or the past weeks Amazing Oklahoma City Comic Con as we have been able to whittle down numbers during it. Usually his work load is pretty enormous and why I try to slide a book in on him a week as I figure one at a time is at least something.

 

As for grading for these, one hang up was something I didn't see, licensing. Everything should be taken care of and should finally start seeing these completed though.

 

Other stuff and Cleaning out laundry here:

Jamie Biggs, Adam himself warned me about this one but following commission requests and then receiving them back before my requested cut off I ran an op with Jamie. Currently waiting on a single book to be completed and have been trying to contact Jaime about closing this thing which has been an enormous headache. (Self Inflicted)

 

Alfred Trujilo, his books are either at CGC or at my home... Yes they could be at my home but I honestly have not had a chance to open boxes I have received due to my travel schedule. Usually I'm home for Wednesday long enough to wash my clothes, kiss the kids, and pat the wife on the head. This I need to check on when I get home hopefully Friday which I have a weekend off finally and will be back.

 

Kokkinakis, currently awaiting a single book as well, been in contact with him about it though so should be near the end of the tunnel with him.

 

Harley Quinn Amazing books, these are spread between three places, CGC, my home, and just getting to CGC. The ones just getting to CGC were just signed by Palmiotti and Conner a few weeks ago due to Amanda not attending NYCC.

 

I will get on messaging every single person back as soon as I can but I really am bogged down. The biggest reason I am replying to this isn't to keep myself out of the PL but because I've received several texts, calls, and an email this morning alone and I know I need to respond to everyone on a PM by the end of this week. I WILL find a way to get back on here more to respond.

 

Lastly I truly do apologize for the delay in everything. It's not my intention to keep books away from you all whether to keep or flip and I am not against me being on the PL but would even wish to nominate myself until I can get things cleared up with each of these issues as well as a few extra ones I have going on as well.

 

I just want my harly Quinn with 4 sigs that you said was in with cgc back in September. Only reason why I never requested you for pl is because you live in the town I grew up in. So I have done this as a favor to you for not requesting it. However and email would have been nice.

[bababooey]

Thx for all the PM's

[Securitybob]

In response to Adam's request of PL for me I completely AGREE I should be placed on the list. I have been so wrapped up in everything going on that I haven't had a chance to get on here in almost 11 weeks to respond to questions. Reasons I should be on here stretch more than the Eastman opp and until I can set the status back to clear I will not take another commission request nor sell on the boards. No need for voting, or large discussions of why or why not I whole heartedly believe until I can get everything done that j do belong on here.

 

The Eastman opp:

Yes SDCC was a huge sketch opportunity and almost everything has been completed and turned into CGC. If you check with Doug (dscott) he is just now receiving the last of his order from San Diego and I'm really trying to get this one completed. I have three large scale commissions to include Adam's request and I'll finally be done with SDCC.

 

The Hawaii Eastman opp:

I am waiting on 10 commissions left for it to be completed. These are 10 full body commissions and not part of the opp conducted on here. The ones completed were some different commission requests such as Nightwing Turtle, Harley Quinn Turtle, Batman, and several others which were completed as can be verified by Adonis (Not sure what he is called now) and Yaw (yagyare) who were in the hotel room while he was drawing these for everyone.

 

Someone asked why I took commissions at NYCC, I did not. Darrel F happened to accompany me to Kevin's hotel to pick up some commissions as well as books signed and asked me if I could ask him on the spot. That was the only commission done at that show by Kevin outside of the small stand in line he did at IDWs booth.

 

It's because of being behind by the 13 commissions that I did not take any requests for Canada, NYCC or the past weeks Amazing Oklahoma City Comic Con as we have been able to whittle down numbers during it. Usually his work load is pretty enormous and why I try to slide a book in on him a week as I figure one at a time is at least something.

 

As for grading for these, one hang up was something I didn't see, licensing. Everything should be taken care of and should finally start seeing these completed though.

 

Other stuff and Cleaning out laundry here:

Jamie Biggs, Adam himself warned me about this one but following commission requests and then receiving them back before my requested cut off I ran an op with Jamie. Currently waiting on a single book to be completed and have been trying to contact Jaime about closing this thing which has been an enormous headache. (Self Inflicted)

 

Alfred Trujilo, his books are either at CGC or at my home... Yes they could be at my home but I honestly have not had a chance to open boxes I have received due to my travel schedule. Usually I'm home for Wednesday long enough to wash my clothes, kiss the kids, and pat the wife on the head. This I need to check on when I get home hopefully Friday which I have a weekend off finally and will be back.

 

Kokkinakis, currently awaiting a single book as well, been in contact with him about it though so should be near the end of the tunnel with him.

 

Harley Quinn Amazing books, these are spread between three places, CGC, my home, and just getting to CGC. The ones just getting to CGC were just signed by Palmiotti and Conner a few weeks ago due to Amanda not attending NYCC.

 

I will get on messaging every single person back as soon as I can but I really am bogged down. The biggest reason I am replying to this isn't to keep myself out of the PL but because I've received several texts, calls, and an email this morning alone and I know I need to respond to everyone on a PM by the end of this week. I WILL find a way to get back on here more to respond.

 

Lastly I truly do apologize for the delay in everything. It's not my intention to keep books away from you all whether to keep or flip and I am not against me being on the PL but would even wish to nominate myself until I can get things cleared up with each of these issues as well as a few extra ones I have going on as well.

 

I just want my harly Quinn with 4 sigs that you said was in with cgc back in September. Only reason why I never requested you for pl is because you live in the town I grew up in. So I have done this as a favor to you for not requesting it. However and email would have been nice.

 

In light of all the new information that has been shown in private board concerning Akoni and I know that Board members are trying to help in any way they can shows a great credit to Akoni in the past. However, in light of the amount of money and value of comics involved I request that Akoni not only gets put on the Probation List but to be automatically moved to the Hall of Shame. There is thousands of dollars worth of comics and money that he has taken from people and failed to provide the services requested. On top of him taking money and goods from people in other countries makes what he is currently doing an international crime with wire fraud. Not counting the crimes he committed here in the US for wire fraud. This is an out rage to allow someone to come back and potentially do this again. So I urge that he be moved to the Hall of Shame.

[crassus]

In light of all the new information that has been shown in private board concerning Akoni and I know that Board members are trying to help in any way they can shows a great credit to Akoni in the past. However, in light of the amount of money and value of comics involved I request that Akoni not only gets put on the Probation List but to be automatically moved to the Hall of Shame. There is thousands of dollars worth of comics and money that he has taken from people and failed to provide the services requested. On top of him taking money and goods from people in other countries makes what he is currently doing an international crime with wire fraud. Not counting the crimes he committed here in the US for wire fraud. This is an out rage to allow someone to come back and potentially do this again. So I urge that he be moved to the Hall of Shame.

 

The HoS is an open process decided by a vote taken by the community. If you wish to advance the case for HoS there would need to be full public disclosure with a detailed timeline of transgressions.