PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Speedy-D]

So how lax are we going to be with every single probation discussion? Every situation is different, and we all know that it will be in the future. However, the rules are that someone is Probation worthy if the following criteria are met:

 

1 - 30 days after a transaction has failed to complete on these boards

2 - The victim (either seller or buyer) has tried to contact the other party and either has not received a response or the party has failed to comply with the original agreement

 

If these two are met then the offender gets placed on the probation list. There is no gray area here. It is a probation list because there are unresolved issues still to be ironed out and the outcome of it once it is resolved is the removal of their name from said list. It does not go on your permanent record and it does not show up on your credit report - it is a mechanism to maintain the trust that is built in this community.

 

The way to get off the list is to get the original accuser to request removal.

 

Regardless of the circumstances I disagree with POV for taking chunkybutt off the list. There are still grievances still open and there is a misrepresentation right now on the probation list. The criteria has been met to get on the list but not to get off of it. The rules are rules and if we continue to bend them every time then there is no use for them.

 

I would add chunkybutt to the proby list once again, but I would prefer that POV removes his post rather than to get into a pizzing contest.

First of all, didn't chunkybutt (shudder) pay the 50 bucks? That should get him off the list, right? And second, do you see a problem with adding a 48 hour grace period for the issue to be discussed? Everyone always agrees that it's best when these things are worked out, right?

[comicnut]

Or conversely I could send out notice that I want transactions completed right now, and it is very likely that only about 10 of the 48 people would respond within a couple hours and the way things are going right now they could end up on probie list by tomorrow.

[PovertyRow]

First of all, didn't chunkybutt (shudder) pay the 50 bucks? That should get him off the list, right? And second, do you see a problem with adding a 48 hour grace period for the issue to be discussed? Everyone always agrees that it's best when these things are worked out, right?

 

I am glad to read this but I am confused because we already HAVE agreed on both a PM and a "reasonable" waiting period for reply to a PM. This is very old news but some folks are acting like it is all a new concept.

[comicnut]

I agree with Speedy again, the point is to try and get everything worked out.

By giving a 2 day period on this discussion thread at least the buyer has a chance.

[comicnut]

First of all, didn't chunkybutt (shudder) pay the 50 bucks? That should get him off the list, right? And second, do you see a problem with adding a 48 hour grace period for the issue to be discussed? Everyone always agrees that it's best when these things are worked out, right?

 

I am glad to read this but I am confused because we already HAVE agreed on both a PM and a "reasonable" waiting period for reply to a PM. This is very old news but some folks are acting like it is all a new concept.

 

Yes you are right some of it is written in the beginning of the probie thread, it was a good starting point, but now should be elaborated on.

 

Including having to PM the member about the probie discussion thread etc. waiting 2 days etc.

Heck I didn't know about the probie discussion thread until not too long ago.

 

There are plenty of good buyers out there, and stuff may happen in their life or they may not know all of the ins and outs of the board.

[Bomber-Bob]

 

 

Fast forward to Wed. I get a call from John in the afternoon asking me if I was still interested in looking at the collection he had told me about. It seems that the sellers (Andrew aka holyghost & the owner of the books, James) had changed their mind and accepted the offer that he had made weeks ago. After many calls back and forth between the three of us (myself, John, seller), we had run into a hitch as the sellers wanted me to view the collection the next day (Thurs) but I couldn't swing that. Temporary plans were made to talk about viewing the collection some time the next week. In the early evening I got a call from John asking if I would be okay meeting with the sellers on Friday at a bank, looking over the books, paying them if everything was in order, and take possession of said books. I agreed and I set up a meeting point with the sellers on Thurs.

 

Fast forward to Friday. That morning I came across Brad's thread in CG about a deal gone bad. Once I read the Probation thread and saw who it was, I immediately called John and left him a voicemail and followed that with a call to Brad (and left him a voicemail). Neither one of us had any idea Brad had been in negotiations for this collection or that a deal had been reached between the two parties until reading the thread. Andrew (holyghost) had said that other people had been by to look at the books, but never was it mentioned that they had agreed to a price with someone else. So with much trepidation, I met with the sellers, looked over the books, paid them, and took possession of them.

 

I talked to Brad that afternoon and explained what I knew of the situation, offered up some options for restitution, and told him we would find some way to square things away with him

 

I just reread Brad's original statement and he said the deal was finalized on Wednesday, the same day you said John got a call that the Seller accepted his standing offer from weeks before.

Brad also said the seller sold the books to John for more than 2X Brad's offer.

It doesn't make sense that the seller would accept an offer from Brad for less than half of John's original offer. I suspect John's original offer was lowball, the seller struck a deal with Brad, called John whereupon he doubled Brad's offer.

Brad was obviousy used for leverage in all of this.

Edited July 3, 2011 by bomber-bob

[JazzMan]

So how lax are we going to be with every single probation discussion? Every situation is different, and we all know that it will be in the future. However, the rules are that someone is Probation worthy if the following criteria are met:

 

1 - 30 days after a transaction has failed to complete on these boards

2 - The victim (either seller or buyer) has tried to contact the other party and either has not received a response or the party has failed to comply with the original agreement

 

If these two are met then the offender gets placed on the probation list. There is no gray area here. It is a probation list because there are unresolved issues still to be ironed out and the outcome of it once it is resolved is the removal of their name from said list. It does not go on your permanent record and it does not show up on your credit report - it is a mechanism to maintain the trust that is built in this community.

 

The way to get off the list is to get the original accuser to request removal.

 

Regardless of the circumstances I disagree with POV for taking chunkybutt off the list. There are still grievances still open and there is a misrepresentation right now on the probation list. The criteria has been met to get on the list but not to get off of it. The rules are rules and if we continue to bend them every time then there is no use for them.

 

I would add chunkybutt to the proby list once again, but I would prefer that POV removes his post rather than to get into a pizzing contest.

First of all, didn't chunkybutt (shudder) pay the 50 bucks? That should get him off the list, right? And second, do you see a problem with adding a 48 hour grace period for the issue to be discussed? Everyone always agrees that it's best when these things are worked out, right?

 

The only one that should be able to take him off the proby list is Resurrection.

 

If you want to add a 48 grace period then we should all agree on this and not just discuss it once. I agree and am all for quiet and clean resolutions. But I am a stickler for rules and if the rules state one thing, then it should be followed without exception.

[JazzMan]

First of all, didn't chunkybutt (shudder) pay the 50 bucks? That should get him off the list, right? And second, do you see a problem with adding a 48 hour grace period for the issue to be discussed? Everyone always agrees that it's best when these things are worked out, right?

 

I am glad to read this but I am confused because we already HAVE agreed on both a PM and a "reasonable" waiting period for reply to a PM. This is very old news but some folks are acting like it is all a new concept.

 

From the original accusation, the deal went off in February and it was presented to all that multiple attempts were made for contact, therefore the reasonable waiting period had expired long ago. I agree, this is not a new concept.

 

And to recall the original post...

 

Could we add Chunkybutt to the list. I have been holding a stack of books for him since february. I have made contact with him recently, sent a total and he has not responded. I am tired of chasing the guy for the money. I will notify him of this post and allow him to chime in as per the rules. The guy is really nice, I do like him. But leaving me with little to no responses for so long brings me to this.

 

If he completes the sale, I will return and ask him to be removed.

 

I don't believe this last part has been resolved, yet, therefore no removal.

[PovertyRow]

If you dont want the books I will refund your damed money, I am not so hard up that it makes a world of difference. Its ridiculous to em just as much as you. I have never had any issues on these boards, and hopefully never do again. If you really dont want the books don't take them.

 

But do NOT make me sound some whiny little girl, I contacted you NUMEROUS times and got no response. It is frikkin rude, and a waste of my time. I will have you removed, but honestly I feel like not doing it out of spite. You really pizzed me off now, do not ever act like I have been anything other then nice to you. I have had the books sitting here for months, and I just finally saw you post again.

 

Resurection - . You said to chunky "I will have you removed, but honestly I feel like not doing it out of spite ".

 

Does that still hold?

 

To be honest the conversations on both sides have been near unintelligble. Too much anger and too wordy. No one has just laid out a simple timeline and responded to it. The "resurrection removed himself from the PM" is odd and I still am not sure to how that fits in the chain.

 

From what I have seen Chunky paid you the $50. You even offered to refund it. You said if he paid that would be the end of it. So how does this sit with you?

[PovertyRow]

So how lax are we going to be with every single probation discussion? Every situation is different, and we all know that it will be in the future. However, the rules are that someone is Probation worthy if the following criteria are met:

 

1 - 30 days after a transaction has failed to complete on these boards

2 - The victim (either seller or buyer) has tried to contact the other party and either has not received a response or the party has failed to comply with the original agreement

 

If these two are met then the offender gets placed on the probation list. There is no gray area here. It is a probation list because there are unresolved issues still to be ironed out and the outcome of it once it is resolved is the removal of their name from said list. It does not go on your permanent record and it does not show up on your credit report - it is a mechanism to maintain the trust that is built in this community.

 

The way to get off the list is to get the original accuser to request removal.

 

Regardless of the circumstances I disagree with POV for taking chunkybutt off the list. There are still grievances still open and there is a misrepresentation right now on the probation list. The criteria has been met to get on the list but not to get off of it. The rules are rules and if we continue to bend them every time then there is no use for them.

 

I would add chunkybutt to the proby list once again, but I would prefer that POV removes his post rather than to get into a pizzing contest.

First of all, didn't chunkybutt (shudder) pay the 50 bucks? That should get him off the list, right? And second, do you see a problem with adding a 48 hour grace period for the issue to be discussed? Everyone always agrees that it's best when these things are worked out, right?

 

The only one that should be able to take him off the proby list is Resurrection.

 

If you want to add a 48 grace period then we should all agree on this and not just discuss it once. I agree and am all for quiet and clean resolutions. But I am a stickler for rules and if the rules state one thing, then it should be followed without exception.

 

Jazz - I had replied a bit ago but only your quote showed up.

 

The rule is NOT that this has gone on for a few months so there is no waiting period. The waiting period begins AFTER the situation has been brought up in the Probation Discussion area. Again, that is how it has been. The reason for that, as has been stated many times, is to allow the other side to present their argument.

 

I appreciate and applaud your desire to adhere to the rules but you have misunderstood them.

[JazzMan]

So how lax are we going to be with every single probation discussion? Every situation is different, and we all know that it will be in the future. However, the rules are that someone is Probation worthy if the following criteria are met:

 

1 - 30 days after a transaction has failed to complete on these boards

2 - The victim (either seller or buyer) has tried to contact the other party and either has not received a response or the party has failed to comply with the original agreement

 

If these two are met then the offender gets placed on the probation list. There is no gray area here. It is a probation list because there are unresolved issues still to be ironed out and the outcome of it once it is resolved is the removal of their name from said list. It does not go on your permanent record and it does not show up on your credit report - it is a mechanism to maintain the trust that is built in this community.

 

The way to get off the list is to get the original accuser to request removal.

 

Regardless of the circumstances I disagree with POV for taking chunkybutt off the list. There are still grievances still open and there is a misrepresentation right now on the probation list. The criteria has been met to get on the list but not to get off of it. The rules are rules and if we continue to bend them every time then there is no use for them.

 

I would add chunkybutt to the proby list once again, but I would prefer that POV removes his post rather than to get into a pizzing contest.

First of all, didn't chunkybutt (shudder) pay the 50 bucks? That should get him off the list, right? And second, do you see a problem with adding a 48 hour grace period for the issue to be discussed? Everyone always agrees that it's best when these things are worked out, right?

 

The only one that should be able to take him off the proby list is Resurrection.

 

If you want to add a 48 grace period then we should all agree on this and not just discuss it once. I agree and am all for quiet and clean resolutions. But I am a stickler for rules and if the rules state one thing, then it should be followed without exception.

 

Jazz - I had replied a bit ago but only your quote showed up.

 

The rule is NOT that this has gone on for a few months so there is no waiting period. The waiting period begins AFTER the situation has been brought up in the Probation Discussion area. Again, that is how it has been.

 

I appreciate your desire to adhere to the rules but you have misunderstood them.

 

I respectfully disagree. The clock doesn't begin when the situation has been brought up but rather when the deal was supposed to be consummated.

[PovertyRow]

So how lax are we going to be with every single probation discussion? Every situation is different, and we all know that it will be in the future. However, the rules are that someone is Probation worthy if the following criteria are met:

 

1 - 30 days after a transaction has failed to complete on these boards

2 - The victim (either seller or buyer) has tried to contact the other party and either has not received a response or the party has failed to comply with the original agreement

 

If these two are met then the offender gets placed on the probation list. There is no gray area here. It is a probation list because there are unresolved issues still to be ironed out and the outcome of it once it is resolved is the removal of their name from said list. It does not go on your permanent record and it does not show up on your credit report - it is a mechanism to maintain the trust that is built in this community.

 

The way to get off the list is to get the original accuser to request removal.

 

Regardless of the circumstances I disagree with POV for taking chunkybutt off the list. There are still grievances still open and there is a misrepresentation right now on the probation list. The criteria has been met to get on the list but not to get off of it. The rules are rules and if we continue to bend them every time then there is no use for them.

 

I would add chunkybutt to the proby list once again, but I would prefer that POV removes his post rather than to get into a pizzing contest.

First of all, didn't chunkybutt (shudder) pay the 50 bucks? That should get him off the list, right? And second, do you see a problem with adding a 48 hour grace period for the issue to be discussed? Everyone always agrees that it's best when these things are worked out, right?

 

The only one that should be able to take him off the proby list is Resurrection.

 

If you want to add a 48 grace period then we should all agree on this and not just discuss it once. I agree and am all for quiet and clean resolutions. But I am a stickler for rules and if the rules state one thing, then it should be followed without exception.

 

Jazz - I had replied a bit ago but only your quote showed up.

 

The rule is NOT that this has gone on for a few months so there is no waiting period. The waiting period begins AFTER the situation has been brought up in the Probation Discussion area. Again, that is how it has been.

 

I appreciate your desire to adhere to the rules but you have misunderstood them.

 

I respectfully disagree. The clock doesn't begin when the situation has been brought up but rather when the deal was supposed to be consummated.

 

The 30 day clock is the MINIMUM time a transaction is still not completed. After that time they can be brought to the DISCUSSION thread.

 

The clock for the DECISION to add someone to the PL begins when the situation has been brought up in the Probation Discussion area. When that happens the person should be PMd, preferably just before bringing them up here. Then there is the 2nd clock allowing the accused time to respond here. Again, that is how it has been.

 

[Speedy-D]

So how lax are we going to be with every single probation discussion? Every situation is different, and we all know that it will be in the future. However, the rules are that someone is Probation worthy if the following criteria are met:

 

1 - 30 days after a transaction has failed to complete on these boards

2 - The victim (either seller or buyer) has tried to contact the other party and either has not received a response or the party has failed to comply with the original agreement

 

If these two are met then the offender gets placed on the probation list. There is no gray area here. It is a probation list because there are unresolved issues still to be ironed out and the outcome of it once it is resolved is the removal of their name from said list. It does not go on your permanent record and it does not show up on your credit report - it is a mechanism to maintain the trust that is built in this community.

 

The way to get off the list is to get the original accuser to request removal.

 

Regardless of the circumstances I disagree with POV for taking chunkybutt off the list. There are still grievances still open and there is a misrepresentation right now on the probation list. The criteria has been met to get on the list but not to get off of it. The rules are rules and if we continue to bend them every time then there is no use for them.

 

I would add chunkybutt to the proby list once again, but I would prefer that POV removes his post rather than to get into a pizzing contest.

First of all, didn't chunkybutt (shudder) pay the 50 bucks? That should get him off the list, right? And second, do you see a problem with adding a 48 hour grace period for the issue to be discussed? Everyone always agrees that it's best when these things are worked out, right?

 

The only one that should be able to take him off the proby list is Resurrection.

 

If you want to add a 48 grace period then we should all agree on this and not just discuss it once. I agree and am all for quiet and clean resolutions. But I am a stickler for rules and if the rules state one thing, then it should be followed without exception.

Agreed, I certainly am not taking it upon myself to dictate a change.

 

These last two incidents do make it seem as though the rules as they stand could use some tweaking though. There's the holyghost thing, which is 8 shades of shady, and the chunkybutt thing, which sounds like a misunderstanding that's gotten heated. Both wound up on the List really quickly without hearing from the other side.

 

To be a real stickler, would we have to wait 30 days before putting holyghost on the list? Seems inappropriate to me. Get it out here, let both parties have a little time to present a case, and move ahead from there.

[PovertyRow]

To be a real stickler, would we have to wait 30 days before putting holyghost on the list? Seems inappropriate to me. Get it out here, let both parties have a little time to present a case, and move ahead from there.

 

Speedy - that is a good point but it too has already been brought up and implemented. If the person flat out replies to the accuser "I don't care about the PL. I am not going to settle this" or words to that effect, then the 30 day mimimum is set aside.

 

If a situation is not redeemable, as in the case of holyghost, where the entire lot in question has been sold to another party, again the 30 day mimimum is set aside.

[Speedy-D]

To be a real stickler, would we have to wait 30 days before putting holyghost on the list? Seems inappropriate to me. Get it out here, let both parties have a little time to present a case, and move ahead from there.

 

Speedy - that is a good point but it too has already been brought up and implemented. If the person flat out replies to the accuser "I don't care about the PL. I am not going to settle this" or words to that effect, then the 30 day mimimum is set aside.

 

If a situation is not redeemable, as in the case of holyghost, where the entire lot in question has been sold to another party, again the 30 day mimimum is set aside.

Yeah I know, I just wanted to try some stickling.

[PovertyRow]

To be a real stickler, would we have to wait 30 days before putting holyghost on the list? Seems inappropriate to me. Get it out here, let both parties have a little time to present a case, and move ahead from there.

 

Speedy - that is a good point but it too has already been brought up and implemented. If the person flat out replies to the accuser "I don't care about the PL. I am not going to settle this" or words to that effect, then the 30 day mimimum is set aside.

 

If a situation is not redeemable, as in the case of holyghost, where the entire lot in question has been sold to another party, again the 30 day mimimum is set aside.

Yeah I know, I just wanted to try some stickling.

 

"Stickling"!

 

It may sound strange but I have made a real study of the Probation List process. I must have been a Barrister in a past life. I have read through the whole thread a few times now and actually was very involved in, and ocassionally spearheading, some of the ideas as they developed down the road. That's why I am sometimes surprised at the rules still being misunderstood.

 

In retrospect, though, I cannot blame anyone for not having a full handle on them. It has been an often convoluted road with many little side issues and "stickling" points.

 

 

[bababooey]

First of all, didn't chunkybutt (shudder) pay the 50 bucks? That should get him off the list, right? And second, do you see a problem with adding a 48 hour grace period for the issue to be discussed? Everyone always agrees that it's best when these things are worked out, right?

 

I am glad to read this but I am confused because we already HAVE agreed on both a PM and a "reasonable" waiting period for reply to a PM. This is very old news but some folks are acting like it is all a new concept.

 

From the original accusation, the deal went off in February and it was presented to all that multiple attempts were made for contact, therefore the reasonable waiting period had expired long ago. I agree, this is not a new concept.

 

And to recall the original post...

 

Could we add Chunkybutt to the list. I have been holding a stack of books for him since february. I have made contact with him recently, sent a total and he has not responded. I am tired of chasing the guy for the money. I will notify him of this post and allow him to chime in as per the rules. The guy is really nice, I do like him. But leaving me with little to no responses for so long brings me to this.

 

If he completes the sale, I will return and ask him to be removed.

 

I don't believe this last part has been resolved, yet, therefore no removal.

Are you guys referring to the same rules? Pat seemed willing to await feedback from ChunkyButt in the "discussion forum" yet your rules led to CB being added to the PL minutes later?

If you're going to refer to rules AND be a gatekeeper (adding people) - share those rules don't just refer to them; reiterating the agreed upon rules will help others understand.

[bababooey]

If the person flat out replies to the accuser "I don't care about the PL. I am not going to settle this" or words to that effect, then the 30 day mimimum is set aside.

 

If a situation is not redeemable, as in the case of holyghost, where the entire lot in question has been sold to another party, again the 30 day mimimum is set aside.

Clarity

[PovertyRow]

babaooey - just to clarify on your quoting me: "I am glad to read this but I am confused because we already HAVE agreed on both a PM and a "reasonable" waiting period for reply to a PM." and your reply in red This is very old news but some folks are acting like it is all a new concept.

 

When I said we have already agreed - I was not saying this situation created the PM/reasonable time thing. I was saying that this is in fact old news that hearkens to the past history of the Probation Discussions.

 

If you were just reinforcing my words great and appreciated, but I did not want folks to think I was in agreement that this PM/time to respond rule was a newly minted one! (thumbs u

[Speedy-D]

I totally though it was new!