I lost my dispute with paypal.. *RANT*

[Dark Knight]

Dude, I am in the middle of s $1400 dispute with Paypal and it looks like I am going to lose. It's very difficult to win with the "not as described" arguement...especially when arguing with the condition of comic books.

 

Good luck.

 

R.

 

 

I guess you and I are on the same boat Roy (well not really because you can still win your dispute). Keeping my fingers crossed for you man. Good luck!

[Dark Knight]

Well, i'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one. So far I have followed what my CC company told me to do. I've never filed a dispute with anyone so I did not know what to expect. I hope everything will go fine. It seems like filing a dispute with the CC company is the best way to handle something like this. I even filed a dispute with ebay as well last month. Not sure if ebay can do anything about it.

But one thing's for certain, if anyone does file a dispute with paypal, make sure you give them a call first and ask them specifically what needs to be done on your part.

[Dark Knight]

similar experience as to what i had...i refused to use paypal for almost 2 years till my $1400 dispute was finally put to rest..2 years!.

i just reopened my paypal account two weeks ago...hoping for no problems.

good luck...at least you have your credit card company to work with.

i asume you still have the book? at least its not a total loss..i had nothing to show for the scam i got burnt on,until the police finally resolved it and paypal refunded my funds 2 years later.

 

Nope, I shipped the book via fed-ex today because that was what my credit card told me. I provided them with the tracking number. So i'm taking their word for it

 

What a bummer Brian, sorry to hear this is still not resolved.

 

I would take the high road with this guy, no need to give him any ammunition to use against you. Hope you get paid soon.

 

 

Yeah, I hope so too. Thanks again for all your help!

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Is it just me, or do a lot of people not know about this? It's a revelation to me that the paypal dispute process is essentially worthless if you pay with a CC. Why in the world would anyone use paypal dispute if they pay with a CC? If I ever have a dispute that can't be solved between myself and the seller, I'll just go to the CC directly from now on.

 

Because the Paypal dispute process gives the seller at least the opportunity to fix it, before you "take it to the credit card company."

 

Chargebacks are big, ugly, nasty red marks on a seller's Paypal account, and can lead to all sorts of problems for them. While I have no issue with doing that to fraudulent scammers, not everyone is a fraudulent scammer....so what's the harm in giving a little benefit of the doubt? Call it a "grace period" for the seller if you like.

 

As well, if you get chargeback happy, Paypal can boot you. They've sent me canned threats regarding it over the years (not that I'm chargeback happy, but I have filed a few), and have never actually done anything, but they could, and they'd be within their rights. Losing my Paypal account would effectively end my life on ebay.

[CKB]

 

The catch to watch out for when working with the CC is that if they reverse the charge, Paypal may ban you just for that.

 

 

This is not true. In the last 10 years I have done chargebacks against merchants who never sent me the items at least 10 times. Each time paypal sent me a confirmation email 2 weeks later acknowleding a chargeback has been started by the credit card company.

 

And that was the end of it. You do not hear from paypal again after that initial confirmation email they send you.

 

They do not ban you. If you do it too many times, yes, they would probably ban you. Don't forget paypal does not take these losses, they take it out of the seller's account. Paypal can even go directly into a seller's confirmed bank account and take money out of their bank account to get their chargeback money back (at least that's my understanding of the confirmed bank account thing).

 

 

 

Ok I'll roll with that - repeated chargebacks will get you banned. (thumbs u

 

The paypal hate sites are filed with banning stories for chargebacks.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

The thing to do in "SNAD" (significantly not as described) disputes is to really overzealously explain, in the dispute, what the issue is, and explain it in Layman's terms.

 

You have to remember that the people reading these are NOT comics people, and do not understand the issues that drive prices up and down. So, you have to pretend like you're explaining it to your mom, and use numbers. For example, if the seller graded it "VF", and it's really a VG, terms that are meaningless to a claims adjustor, say "the seller stated this was an 8.0 out of 10, but it's really a 4.0."

 

They can understand that. Talk to them as if they know nothing about comics. And, explain in every day terms what the consequences of things like water damage, loose staples, brittle pages are. I always state, with undisclosed water damage, that it degrades the paper to such an extent that it will eventually turn brown and brittle and break off. That this wouldn't happen for 100 years if the book is stored properly is not necessary to mention, because it's still true.

 

Also, give them real world price differences between the grade stated, and grade received. "Seller said MINT condition (and it's really a 7.0)"...in that condition, the item is legitimately worth $500, but in this condition, it's only worth about $75.

 

They can understand that, and it can help you win SNAD cases.

[sterlingcomics]

The only thing that pizzes me off is lying scumbags like that. People who rip of others with no remorse and full of cockyness. I would break a bone for every dollar I got scammed for and sleep like a baby at night.

[sterlingcomics]

So, is the seller not honoring the refund policy? I'm not sure how this basic fact cannot help you win in your favor...it sounds like eBay/PP has totally glossed over this.

[dekeuk]

So, is the seller not honoring the refund policy? I'm not sure how this basic fact cannot help you win in your favor...it sounds like eBay/PP has totally glossed over this.

 

My "favorite" sellers are the ones who have a refund policy where I win one of their auctions, then find out they mis-represented the product before I pay for it.

 

I tell them I wish to back out of the deal and not pay for it. Basically go our separate ways.

 

They insist I pay for it

 

I point out I am merely taking early advantage of their money back guarantee

 

They tell me I have to pay for it and have it shipped to me before returning it and getting my money back.

 

 

 

[Ultra Ambient]

In respect to the letterhead demand; I believe it is so they can then contact the bussiness directly to confirm what they have said in the letter. On receiving a reply they can then cross check the letterhead to see if it is identical to the one you provided and hense confirm the legitimacy of your claim. At least that's the only logical conclusion I can come to.

[JerryZ]

If you can ,,use a debit card .. I have had a few of these and got my money back in my account the nextday..someitmes the Visa and what not take a little more time but i ALWAYS use my bank card because of stuff like this..

 

comicsupply.com...NEVER MIND Dont get me started on them

[Dark Knight]

In respect to the letterhead demand; I believe it is so they can then contact the bussiness directly to confirm what they have said in the letter. On receiving a reply they can then cross check the letterhead to see if it is identical to the one you provided and hense confirm the legitimacy of your claim. At least that's the only logical conclusion I can come to.

 

That was exaclty what they told me, but I did mention to them that my LCS even stamped the document. Wouldn't that be legitimate enough? Also, they can google my LCS to match the address and phone number to my document. I just don't know why they are so anal about a letterhead if what I have provided is pretty much legit.

[Dark Knight]

So I've been thinking.. Should I also go as far and file a police report to where the seller lives?

[dekeuk]

So I've been thinking.. Should I also go as far and file a police report to where the seller lives?

 

Forget police reports. Tried it befoe, it does not work.

 

If you file locally, the local police will say you have to file where the seller lives.

 

When you try to file where the seller lives, they will tell you that you have to file locally.

 

Basically, they are both saying "we are busy busting meth dealers in this town, so don't tell us you feel cheated in a deal for some funny books"

 

My situation was the OUTRIGHT THEFT of $500 and nothing ever received.

 

And the police could not have cared less. I filed locally but was told it was a "civil matter"

 

You have even less of a police matter because you actually received the material and disagree about the condition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dark Knight]

So I've been thinking.. Should I also go as far and file a police report to where the seller lives?

 

Forget police reports. Tried it befoe, it does not work.

 

If you file locally, the local police will say you have to file where the seller lives.

 

When you try to file where the seller lives, they will tell you that you have to file locally.

 

Basically, they are both saying "we are busy busting meth dealers in this town, so don't tell us you feel cheated in a deal for some funny books"

 

My situation was the OUTRIGHT THEFT of $500 and nothing ever received.

 

And the police could not have cared less. I filed locally but was told it was a "civil matter"

 

You have even less of a police matter because you actually received the material and disagree about the condition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your response (thumbs u

[User 01001010]

So I've been thinking.. Should I also go as far and file a police report to where the seller lives?

 

Forget police reports. Tried it befoe, it does not work.

 

If you file locally, the local police will say you have to file where the seller lives.

 

When you try to file where the seller lives, they will tell you that you have to file locally.

 

Basically, they are both saying "we are busy busting meth dealers in this town, so don't tell us you feel cheated in a deal for some funny books"

 

My situation was the OUTRIGHT THEFT of $500 and nothing ever received.

 

And the police could not have cared less. I filed locally but was told it was a "civil matter"

 

You have even less of a police matter because you actually received the material and disagree about the condition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

sux to one up ya, but my id was stolen and two cars were bought under my name, various medical services were put in my name, a book club subscription (romance novels for african american women, err, i'm a white boy), cell phones, credit cards..ect for a total of $38,000. local cops in atlanta are and were a joke, hbg city cops were a bit better (it was the fbi and the attny generals office that actually helped).

 

 

best part is, i'm a male, the person who did this was female, i live in harrisburg pa and in the mid atlantic region my entire life. she lives in atlanta, and i've never been to georgia and if it wouldn't have been for an honest car dealer (go figure) who actually tracked down my phone # and contacted me, when we would have went for our house, we would have been declined due to bad credit due to the fraudulent charges under my ssn.

 

fun times

j

[Ultra Ambient]

In respect to the letterhead demand; I believe it is so they can then contact the bussiness directly to confirm what they have said in the letter. On receiving a reply they can then cross check the letterhead to see if it is identical to the one you provided and hense confirm the legitimacy of your claim. At least that's the only logical conclusion I can come to.

 

That was exaclty what they told me, but I did mention to them that my LCS even stamped the document. Wouldn't that be legitimate enough? Also, they can google my LCS to match the address and phone number to my document. I just don't know why they are so anal about a letterhead if what I have provided is pretty much legit.

 

The critical part in the process is when Ebay makes contact with the bussiness through an official channel (ie business directory) they need to obtain another letter from the same bussiness for cross checking. If the business stamped your letter then that isn't something they would recieve from their response as they would probably recieve it via fax or email. Anyone can get access to a stamp to stamp their letter, anyone can get a businesses contact details and copy it onto a letter, but how can you copy a letterhead unless you've actually recieved a letter or document from the actual business? I know it is still a pretty weak form of screening for legitimacy but I guess that's all they have to work with.

[Dark Knight]

So I've been thinking.. Should I also go as far and file a police report to where the seller lives?

 

Forget police reports. Tried it befoe, it does not work.

 

If you file locally, the local police will say you have to file where the seller lives.

 

When you try to file where the seller lives, they will tell you that you have to file locally.

 

Basically, they are both saying "we are busy busting meth dealers in this town, so don't tell us you feel cheated in a deal for some funny books"

 

My situation was the OUTRIGHT THEFT of $500 and nothing ever received.

 

And the police could not have cared less. I filed locally but was told it was a "civil matter"

 

You have even less of a police matter because you actually received the material and disagree about the condition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

sux to one up ya, but my id was stolen and two cars were bought under my name, various medical services were put in my name, a book club subscription (romance novels for african american women, err, i'm a white boy), cell phones, credit cards..ect for a total of $38,000. local cops in atlanta are and were a joke, hbg city cops were a bit better (it was the fbi and the attny generals office that actually helped).

 

 

best part is, i'm a male, the person who did this was female, i live in harrisburg pa and in the mid atlantic region my entire life. she lives in atlanta, and i've never been to georgia and if it wouldn't have been for an honest car dealer (go figure) who actually tracked down my phone # and contacted me, when we would have went for our house, we would have been declined due to bad credit due to the fraudulent charges under my ssn.

 

fun times

j

 

You def. have one up on me. Sux to hear about what you went through. I'm glad everything is fixed and settled. Do you have any idea how your ID was stolen?

[conditionfreak]

If this scenario happens and you send the item back to the seller, obtain a tracking number, and make a "claim" with your credit card company and provide them this tracking info, what keeps YOU from really only sending back an empty box or a box with a different comic in it, to the seller and ripping him off? How does the credit card company know you actually sent the item or correct item back to the seller?

 

Can't this type of action actually be used to "steal" money and comics from a seller?

[musicmeta]

So I've been thinking.. Should I also go as far and file a police report to where the seller lives?

 

Forget police reports. Tried it befoe, it does not work.

 

If you file locally, the local police will say you have to file where the seller lives.

 

When you try to file where the seller lives, they will tell you that you have to file locally.

 

Basically, they are both saying "we are busy busting meth dealers in this town, so don't tell us you feel cheated in a deal for some funny books"

 

My situation was the OUTRIGHT THEFT of $500 and nothing ever received.

 

And the police could not have cared less. I filed locally but was told it was a "civil matter"

 

You have even less of a police matter because you actually received the material and disagree about the condition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What about contacting the Attorney General. I know of a few people who contacted them for disputes(not on comics) and the sellers refunded their money.

 

I think it's worth a shot if all this falls thru.