Manufactured Gold

[Red Hook]

Its a shame and funny at the same time on how emotional and vocal people can be regarding comics.

 

When did this turn from being a hobby into a big business

 

A long time ago....in a galaxy far away, Nik.

[tth2]

I simply gave him props for the fact that he deals honestly with people no matter what. So do I. There are lots of honest sellers that aren't members of the NOD. I don't need NOD or anyone else to police me, I don't hide anything about the books i sell. Thats all I'm saying.

Sorry Dee Dee, but this is so hopefully naive. This is like saying I don't kill people, and there are lots of people who don't kill people, so we don't need the police or laws prohibiting murder laws.

 

Of course there are a lot of honest sellers that aren't members of NOD. But there are also a lot of dishonest sellers that aren't members of NOD too. What is wrong with an organization that advocates the right things to do, and that isn't afraid to take a group position that what those dishonest sellers are doing is wrong?

 

Shame you didn't see things this way when it was only a select few individuals who held this position & spoke out about it.

 

What was it that you referred to us as? The lunatic fringe?

As usual the faulty quality of your memory is surpassed only by your stupidity. When have I ever spoken against NOD or been opposed to disclosure?

[THE_BEYONDER]

I simply gave him props for the fact that he deals honestly with people no matter what. So do I. There are lots of honest sellers that aren't members of the NOD. I don't need NOD or anyone else to police me, I don't hide anything about the books i sell. Thats all I'm saying.

Sorry Dee Dee, but this is so hopefully naive. This is like saying I don't kill people, and there are lots of people who don't kill people, so we don't need the police or laws prohibiting murder laws.

 

Of course there are a lot of honest sellers that aren't members of NOD. But there are also a lot of dishonest sellers that aren't members of NOD too. What is wrong with an organization that advocates the right things to do, and that isn't afraid to take a group position that what those dishonest sellers are doing is wrong?

 

Shame you didn't see things this way when it was only a select few individuals who held this position & spoke out about it.

 

What was it that you referred to us as? The lunatic fringe?

As usual the faulty quality of your memory is surpassed only by your stupidity. When have I ever spoken against NOD or been opposed to disclosure?

 

You can take your personal attacks & shove them straight up your *spoon*.

[Dad&Son-migration]

Beyonder & TTH ...c'mon you guys.. you're both more mature and respected folks around here... no need to attack each other

I recall Tim selling some Flash and Duck books and he was upfront in his disclosure statement in a thread posted in the dealer forum.

Maybe it was because they were on Heritage's site and that place does get a bit of a black eye reputation from time to time. Nonetheless..it was a cool thing to do....

 

Chris.. you also have some awesome stuff and are always honest and upfront.

 

I'm always cautious with a book from 1969 and down that gets a 9.6 myself... I dont' think everything is manipulated to garner higher sales...but damn.. a 40 year old book in NM+ shape was unheard of 15-20 years ago. I'm an optimist and hope that it's because E-business has made the world smaller and this stuff is coming out more readily now and the fact that there still aren't many 9.6 books from Silver age and down.. but the trend seems to be growing, or maybe I'm just becoming more aware and see it more often

[THE_BEYONDER]

I'm a little sensitive before my morning coffee.....

[Dad&Son-migration]

Here's another thing I've noticed about a pressed book. I don't know if it helps to detect them or not. But it's part of my NOD duty for awareness

 

You can notice that the front and back cover will often carry a faint embossment from the raised inks of the 2 inner pages. Essentially transfering the image of the inner pages to the cover like a reverse stamping. It's not 100% everytime but it does reveal pressure being applied.

This is something that also doesn't reveal itself unless you're specifically looking for it.

[Dad&Son-migration]

I'm a little sensitive before my morning coffee.....

 

make it a large expresso.. a little extra zoom for ya today!!!

[THE_BEYONDER]

I'm a little sensitive before my morning coffee.....

 

make it a large expresso.. a little extra zoom for ya today!!!

 

My coffee maker died on me yesterday....so I just went to the fridge & cracked a Budweiser instead. Feeling better already.

[Dad&Son-migration]

I'm a little sensitive before my morning coffee.....

 

make it a large expresso.. a little extra zoom for ya today!!!

 

My coffee maker died on me yesterday....so I just went to the fridge & cracked a Budweiser instead. Feeling better already.

 

put some coffee grains in it!!! You'll have "Buzz beer" ala the Drew Carey Show.

 

ahhh.. " BUZZ Beer... keeps you up so you can get drunk again "

[THE_BEYONDER]

 

 

Thanks. My morning wouldn't have been complete without spewing beer all over my computer.....

[Red Hook]

I worked with MasterChief, along with others, on getting the material in the Gallery of Disclosure up online. I think it's a great piece of work, and MC deserves a tremendous amount of credit for putting this very sober examination together. We made sure that the material had some teeth in it, but was also fair-minded, and did not target anyone. I, along with everyone else agreed with that approach. It's a great approach.

 

I belong to NOD, not because I think it's the perfect organization, but because it's the best thing going right now. Show me something better and I'll join that too.

 

Critics of NOD have continuously miscast the organization as some kind of policing entity. Absolutely, fundamentally not true. I'd be out the door in a sec if that were the case. Regardless of whatever personal concerns I might have regarding any specific dealers, auctions houses, etc. in the biz, it would be insane to allow that kind of bias to weaken NODs attempt to add to the discussion about non-disclosure.

 

Most of the noise in this thread had been about Mark Zaid's personal style. Targeting Mark is a convenient way of attacking NOD. It's misdirection. Mark can take care of himself as well as anyone on these boards, but it has been disconcerting to see guys that I previously considered among the fairest and sanest, brandishing bigger torches than any I've ever seen and alluding to hidden agendas and conspiracies. Dang, you'd think NOD was the comic book equivalent of the Freemasons! :-) You want a witchhunt...here it is!

 

The reality is that NOD membership is growing slowly but steadily, with more pure collectors coming on board than just dealers. Which is great. NOD ain't Zaid, but I for one am very happy to have him involved.

 

A year ago (and I still have the printed syllabus), boardmembers at the NY Con met with the idea of forming a new collectors organization. That unfortunately, went nowhere. NOD is up and running, and is evolving as we speak. It was too overweighted with dealers at the beginning but that is starting to balance out nicely.

 

NOD is about disclosure. It is about education. The Gallery of Disclosure is pure genius. I'm not concerned with who did the work, but about the fact that the work is going on. Every single collector who plops down money for a highgrade book should be aware of what is going on.

 

If some dealers don't feel the need to join NOD, not a problem. That doesn't make them less-worthy in some way. No one is going to call them out. I don't recall NOD jumping all over Lauterbach for not disclosing the pressing of Namisgr's ASM's. But I do recall the board being generally appreciative when that info came out through other channels.

 

Now, the next time someone on the boards calls a friend of mine "a clown" (and that's what started it all...Scott, you've become the master of the cheapshot suckerpunch post....) I'll be calling them out again. But in the meantime, go check out the gallery. It's amazing stuff.

 

Brad

[Dad&Son-migration]

 

 

Thanks. My morning wouldn't have been complete without spewing beer all over my computer.....

 

better on the computer then on your collection !!!

[Dad&Son-migration]

I worked with MasterChief, along with others, on getting the material in the Gallery of Disclosure up online. I think it's a great piece of work, and MC deserves a tremendous amount of credit for putting this very sober examination together. We made sure that the material had some teeth in it, but was also fair-minded, and did not target anyone. I, along with everyone else agreed with that approach. It's a great approach.

 

I belong to NOD, not because I think it's the perfect organization, but because it's the best thing going right now. Show me something better and I'll join that too.

 

Critics of NOD have continuously miscast the organization as some kind of policing entity. Absolutely, fundamentally not true. I'd be out the door in a sec if that were the case. Regardless of whatever personal concerns I might have regarding any specific dealers, auctions houses, etc. in the biz, it would be insane to allow that kind of bias to weaken NODs attempt to add to the discussion about non-disclosure.

 

Most of the noise in this thread had been about Mark Zaid's personal style. Targeting Mark is a convenient way of attacking NOD. It's misdirection. Mark can take care of himself as well as anyone on these boards, but it has been disconcerting to see guys that I previously considered among the fairest and sanest, brandishing bigger torches than any I've ever seen and alluding to hidden agendas and conspiracies. Dang, you'd think NOD was the comic book equivalent of the Freemasons! :-) You want a witchhunt...here it is!

 

The reality is that NOD membership is growing slowly but steadily, with more pure collectors coming on board than just dealers. Which is great. NOD ain't Zaid, but I for one am very happy to have him involved.

 

A year ago (and I still have the printed syllabus), boardmembers at the NY Con met with the idea of forming a new collectors organization. That unfortunately, went nowhere. NOD is up and running, and is evolving as we speak. It was too overweighted with dealers at the beginning but that is starting to balance out nicely.

 

NOD is about disclosure. It is about education. The Gallery of Disclosure is pure genius. I'm not concerned with who did the work, but about the fact that the work is going on. Every single collector who plops down money for a highgrade book should be aware of what is going on.

 

If some dealers don't feel the need to join NOD, not a problem. That doesn't make them less-worthy in some way. No one is going to call them out. I don't recall NOD jumping all over Lauterbach for not disclosing the pressing of Namisgr's ASM's. But I do recall the board being generally appreciative when that info came out through other channels.

 

Now, the next time someone on the boards calls a friend of mine "a clown" (and that's what started it all...Scott, you've become the master of the cheapshot suckerpunch post....) I'll be calling them out again. But in the meantime, go check out the gallery. It's amazing stuff.

 

Brad

 

Well said Brad !!!!!

[qualitycomix]

I worked with MasterChief, along with others, on getting the material in the Gallery of Disclosure up online. I think it's a great piece of work, and MC deserves a tremendous amount of credit for putting this very sober examination together. We made sure that the material had some teeth in it, but was also fair-minded, and did not target anyone. I, along with everyone else agreed with that approach. It's a great approach.

 

I belong to NOD, not because I think it's the perfect organization, but because it's the best thing going right now. Show me something better and I'll join that too.

 

Critics of NOD have continuously miscast the organization as some kind of policing entity. Absolutely, fundamentally not true. I'd be out the door in a sec if that were the case. Regardless of whatever personal concerns I might have regarding any specific dealers, auctions houses, etc. in the biz, it would be insane to allow that kind of bias to weaken NODs attempt to add to the discussion about non-disclosure.

 

Most of the noise in this thread had been about Mark Zaid's personal style. Targeting Mark is a convenient way of attacking NOD. It's misdirection. Mark can take care of himself as well as anyone on these boards, but it has been disconcerting to see guys that I previously considered among the fairest and sanest, brandishing bigger torches than any I've ever seen and alluding to hidden agendas and conspiracies. Dang, you'd think NOD was the comic book equivalent of the Freemasons! :-) You want a witchhunt...here it is!

 

The reality is that NOD membership is growing slowly but steadily, with more pure collectors coming on board than just dealers. Which is great. NOD ain't Zaid, but I for one am very happy to have him involved.

 

A year ago (and I still have the printed syllabus), boardmembers at the NY Con met with the idea of forming a new collectors organization. That unfortunately, went nowhere. NOD is up and running, and is evolving as we speak. It was too overweighted with dealers at the beginning but that is starting to balance out nicely.

 

NOD is about disclosure. It is about education. The Gallery of Disclosure is pure genius. I'm not concerned with who did the work, but about the fact that the work is going on. Every single collector who plops down money for a highgrade book should be aware of what is going on.

 

If some dealers don't feel the need to join NOD, not a problem. That doesn't make them less-worthy in some way. No one is going to call them out. I don't recall NOD jumping all over Lauterbach for not disclosing the pressing of Namisgr's ASM's. But I do recall the board being generally appreciative when that info came out through other channels.

 

Now, the next time someone on the boards calls a friend of mine "a clown" (and that's what started it all...Scott, you've become the master of the cheapshot suckerpunch post....) I'll be calling them out again. But in the meantime, go check out the gallery. It's amazing stuff.

 

Brad

 

Another concise, clearly written post which accurately reflects my opinion as well.

[Flaming_Telepath]

I worked with MasterChief, along with others, on getting the material in the Gallery of Disclosure up online. I think it's a great piece of work, and MC deserves a tremendous amount of credit for putting this very sober examination together. We made sure that the material had some teeth in it, but was also fair-minded, and did not target anyone. I, along with everyone else agreed with that approach. It's a great approach.

 

I belong to NOD, not because I think it's the perfect organization, but because it's the best thing going right now. Show me something better and I'll join that too.

 

Critics of NOD have continuously miscast the organization as some kind of policing entity. Absolutely, fundamentally not true. I'd be out the door in a sec if that were the case. Regardless of whatever personal concerns I might have regarding any specific dealers, auctions houses, etc. in the biz, it would be insane to allow that kind of bias to weaken NODs attempt to add to the discussion about non-disclosure.

 

Most of the noise in this thread had been about Mark Zaid's personal style. Targeting Mark is a convenient way of attacking NOD. It's misdirection. Mark can take care of himself as well as anyone on these boards, but it has been disconcerting to see guys that I previously considered among the fairest and sanest, brandishing bigger torches than any I've ever seen and alluding to hidden agendas and conspiracies. Dang, you'd think NOD was the comic book equivalent of the Freemasons! :-) You want a witchhunt...here it is!

 

The reality is that NOD membership is growing slowly but steadily, with more pure collectors coming on board than just dealers. Which is great. NOD ain't Zaid, but I for one am very happy to have him involved.

 

A year ago (and I still have the printed syllabus), boardmembers at the NY Con met with the idea of forming a new collectors organization. That unfortunately, went nowhere. NOD is up and running, and is evolving as we speak. It was too overweighted with dealers at the beginning but that is starting to balance out nicely.

 

NOD is about disclosure. It is about education. The Gallery of Disclosure is pure genius. I'm not concerned with who did the work, but about the fact that the work is going on. Every single collector who plops down money for a highgrade book should be aware of what is going on.

 

If some dealers don't feel the need to join NOD, not a problem. That doesn't make them less-worthy in some way. No one is going to call them out. I don't recall NOD jumping all over Lauterbach for not disclosing the pressing of Namisgr's ASM's. But I do recall the board being generally appreciative when that info came out through other channels.

 

Now, the next time someone on the boards calls a friend of mine "a clown" (and that's what started it all...Scott, you've become the master of the cheapshot suckerpunch post....) I'll be calling them out again. But in the meantime, go check out the gallery. It's amazing stuff.

 

Brad

 

 

[Architecht]

This is a clearly a charged topic. As such, it can be hard to leave valid discussion free to roam while still adhering to board guidelines.

 

However, the time has come. This thread has had some serious degeneration.

 

Clean it up, gentlemen.

 

Thread locked.