Manufactured Gold

[Dad&Son-migration]

Good for you! I've said this to several people. Nothing against NOD, but if I'm honest and i disclose everything about every book i sell already, why should i join? If you're an honest person and behave like one, you don't need any organization to put their seal of approval on you or pat you on the back for it. JMO.

 

I agree...in a perfect world there's no need for an organization like NOD. But the comics hobby is, sadly, far from perfect...

 

Jim

 

I will disagree... I think it brings a sense of trust. Like I said, I'm very open and a vocal proponent of pressing. Hence, I want people to know that I will be ethical and disclose it and I find NOD is a great outlet for someone like me that hasn't garnered a wide reputation.

 

Like I said Paul, no attack intended. Just a difference of opinion. I would respect you and trust you just as much if you were not a member of NOD.

 

No offense taken DeeDee!!! That's what civil folk are allowed to do.. debate things... I appreciate the vote of trust confidence.. but you and I have talked on many occasion and trust is built thru that.. but I still have to work my agenda on the masses ...moohahahahahaha

[Sal]

...peeing contest.[/img]

 

someone lemme know when this starts up, i got a few bucks i'd like to wager and there's this bookie out my way that will pay in HG SA DC books

[sckao]

 

On a personal note... every time I hear the word "NOD", I think of Command & Conquer and the Brotherhood of NOD, which is, ironically, a terrorist organization.

 

Just an unfortunate coincidence...

 

(Command & Conquer 3 is finally being released this year )

[awe4one]

Good for you! I've said this to several people. Nothing against NOD, but if I'm honest and i disclose everything about every book i sell already, why should i join? If you're an honest person and behave like one, you don't need any organization to put their seal of approval on you or pat you on the back for it. JMO.

 

I agree...in a perfect world there's no need for an organization like NOD. But the comics hobby is, sadly, far from perfect...

 

Jim

 

Are you trying call me naive? Maybe I am, who cares. I admire the guy's honesty, that all there is to it.

 

Actually I was agreeing with you...

 

Jim

[DeeDee-migration]

Good for you! I've said this to several people. Nothing against NOD, but if I'm honest and i disclose everything about every book i sell already, why should i join? If you're an honest person and behave like one, you don't need any organization to put their seal of approval on you or pat you on the back for it. JMO.

 

I agree...in a perfect world there's no need for an organization like NOD. But the comics hobby is, sadly, far from perfect...

 

Jim

 

Are you trying call me naive? Maybe I am, who cares. I admire the guy's honesty, that all there is to it.

 

Actually I was agreeing with you...

 

Jim

 

Guess i misunderstood

[FFB]

Good for you! I've said this to several people. Nothing against NOD, but if I'm honest and i disclose everything about every book i sell already, why should i join? If you're an honest person and behave like one, you don't need any organization to put their seal of approval on you or pat you on the back for it. JMO.

 

I agree...in a perfect world there's no need for an organization like NOD. But the comics hobby is, sadly, far from perfect...

 

Jim

 

I will disagree... I think it brings a sense of trust. Like I said, I'm very open and a vocal proponent of pressing. Hence, I want people to know that I will be ethical and disclose it and I find NOD is a great outlet for someone like me that hasn't garnered a wide reputation.

 

To be completely frank, I think the NOD is more than just making a name for individual members...

 

Yes.. you're right.. it should .. SHOULD.. be for education and awareness that done correctly.. will/should garner more respect. It is new so why be against that objective.. so many negative Neds around here...

 

In fairness -- one of my favorite things about the NOD when it first started was the notion of educating people about restoration ("to include intact pressing," to borrow Mark's favorite legalistic phrasing). Unfortunately, I am not really seeing much in the way of education. Just branding books as pressed and cleaned, when on some at least, it's not clear to me at all that the books in the Gallery were cleaned or pressed.

 

Take the Fighting Yank #26 Church copy, for instance -- there is no way to tell from those scans that the book has been cleaned, and the difference in color appears to me to be purely from scanner settings. Then there is the most basic, commonsense aspect to all of this -- no one would take apart and wash that book in the first place, because (a) an aqueous wash would undoubtedly be detected by CGC and would dramatically reduce the value of the book, and (b) there does not appear to be anything wrong with the book that is "washable" in the first place! And I don't see how you can be sure that it is pressed, since that upper right corner still appears to be bent in the second scan, although the unnatural brightness and contrast settings make it hard to see at a quick glance. Yet you've proclaimed that it is pressed and "more than" simply dry cleaned. I consider this to be a pretty irresponsible thing to do to someone else's book.

 

Please try not to take this as an insult -- but I am not convinced that any of the people making these judgment calls on whether a book was cleaned or not knows enough about what a cleaned book looks like to be able to make a call like that based purely on the scans of this book, let alone what kind of cleaning was done.

 

The All-Winners Comics #1 is another example. The description says that "Perhaps the cleaning was by dry technique...." This is kind of a minor point, but the "perhaps" should not be there. The dust shadow was removed by dry cleaning. Anyone who knows anything about paper conservation knows that you do not wet clean a book until you've removed surface debris and grime (such as a dust shadow) because if you try to clean it in an aqueous wash before removing the dust, you just cement the dust into the paper, making it impossible to remove.

 

That's just two things I see on the first page of GA books. I applaud the NOD's stated purpose of education, but I think that the people writing the text need a bit more education themselves before passing judgment on these books.

[Sal]

Good for you! I've said this to several people. Nothing against NOD, but if I'm honest and i disclose everything about every book i sell already, why should i join? If you're an honest person and behave like one, you don't need any organization to put their seal of approval on you or pat you on the back for it. JMO.

 

I agree...in a perfect world there's no need for an organization like NOD. But the comics hobby is, sadly, far from perfect...

 

Jim

 

I will disagree... I think it brings a sense of trust. Like I said, I'm very open and a vocal proponent of pressing. Hence, I want people to know that I will be ethical and disclose it and I find NOD is a great outlet for someone like me that hasn't garnered a wide reputation.

 

To be completely frank, I think the NOD is more than just making a name for individual members...

 

Yes.. you're right.. it should .. SHOULD.. be for education and awareness that done correctly.. will/should garner more respect. It is new so why be against that objective.. so many negative Neds around here...

 

In fairness -- one of my favorite things about the NOD when it first started was the notion of educating people about restoration ("to include intact pressing," to borrow Mark's favorite legalistic phrasing). Unfortunately, I am not really seeing much in the way of education. Just branding books as pressed and cleaned, when on some at least, it's not clear to me at all that the books in the Gallery were cleaned or pressed.

 

Take the Fighting Yank #26 Church copy, for instance -- there is no way to tell from those scans that the book has been cleaned, and the difference in color appears to me to be purely from scanner settings. Then there is the most basic, commonsense aspect to all of this -- no one would take apart and wash that book in the first place, because (a) an aqueous wash would undoubtedly be detected by CGC and would dramatically reduce the value of the book, and (b) there does not appear to be anything wrong with the book that is "washable" in the first place! And I don't see how you can be sure that it is pressed, since that upper right corner still appears to be bent in the second scan, although the unnatural brightness and contrast settings make it hard to see at a quick glance. Yet you've proclaimed that it is pressed and "more than" simply dry cleaned. I consider this to be a pretty irresponsible thing to do to someone else's book.

 

Please try not to take this as an insult -- but I am not convinced that any of the people making these judgment calls on whether a book was cleaned or not knows enough about what a cleaned book looks like to be able to make a call like that based purely on the scans of this book, let alone what kind of cleaning was done.

 

The All-Winners Comics #1 is another example. The description says that "Perhaps the cleaning was by dry technique...." This is kind of a minor point, but the "perhaps" should not be there. The dust shadow was removed by dry cleaning. Anyone who knows anything about paper conservation knows that you do not wet clean a book until you've removed surface debris and grime (such as a dust shadow) because if you try to clean it in an aqueous wash before removing the dust, you just cement the dust into the paper, making it impossible to remove.

 

That's just two things I see on the first page of GA books. I applaud the NOD's stated purpose of education, but I think that the people writing the text need a bit more education themselves before passing judgment on these books.

 

my God man, mighty nice of you to volunteer!

 

[Aman619]

sounded like a hat hitting the ring to me too. Once Mark resigns, I reckon. : )

[FFB]

And more annoyingly, wants to call out a dealer who has a much longer and distinguished track record in this hobby than he does in order to advance his personal agenda

 

 

Ive heard this before and cant figure it out exactly. Not directed at you in particular, FFB, but since you mentioned it, would you (or anyone else) care to elaborate on just what you/they mean by "Zaid's personal agenda"? Is this a way of saying that he's trying to make a name for himself, leapfrogging more experienced collector/dealers who have more than a few years in the game?. Or is there more to it? And if thats it, how does that disqualify him from taking a stand, or the lead, or trying to organize some resistance to the prevailing trends...? He's not the only only here who's upset at certain actions going on.

 

IF SO, and as a result, Mark has to fall on his sword so that the idea succeeds a bit more or faster, lets discuss it..., Take Mark out of the spotlight and focus back on the issues.

 

That is the gist of what I am talking about, although it is the way he goes about it that bothers me the most. The way he tries to call out dealers and embarass them into doing things the way HE wants them done is ridiculous. Who the hell is he to tell people how to run their businesses or pressure them into doing things the way he wants things done?

[Aman619]

fair enough. He's grating I guess, and unapologetic about his opinions etc. Wait, now I'm confused who I'm talking about! but thanx for spelling it out for me. I see where you are coming from. But I applaud his efforts and the goals in general. And no one else seems as willing to do the job to the extent he does.

[chaos_ad-migration]

How does a balloon knot such as yourself not get a strike?

[FFB]

While I'm on the topic, the Master Comics #22 was definitely pressed, but I see no evidence that it was dry cleaned or otherwise cleaned. The second scan is just brighter. If it were dry cleaned, the mark along the spine and the light surface soiling near the bottom spine would be gone or at least reduced somewhat. I see no indication that the slightly lighter appearance of those things are a result of anything but a brigher scan. And yet the writer of the text has passed judgment on that book, stating it was dry cleaned.

 

More Fun #71 -- the committee forgot to mention the fact that the back cover was dry cleaned.

[Frisco Larson]

Is your reason for owning it to say you have the nicest copy? Or is it to have a nice copy. If you want to say you have the nicest I say check your ego. If you want a nice one then I say pay the price that is comfortable for you.

 

ricky, i swear, if you actually influence some of these flat-earthers to the point they stop their screeds, it's gonna be me and you. tell me this stuff isn't funnier than everybody loves raymond reruns! if you don't start being REALLY careful slinging these disgustingly sensible comments around like nobody could get hurt, we're going to lose some fun. you stand warned.

I wouldn't worry about influencing anyones opinion here. It seems to me that most folks in this thread have already made up their minds. Then it really just comes down to choosing a side. Are you with the Puritan Opposition On Pressings Outrageous Opportunists or are you from the Blue Labels Over-power Weak Moral Ethics camp? All you need to do is pick a side, do whatever you must to make peace with it and move on with your life, because neither side is going to go away. There's room for everyone and the fact that we all love comics indicates that none of us are ALL bad.

[blazingbob]

Now, now, you are becoming guilty of what you criticize.

[THE_BEYONDER]

While I'm on the topic, the Master Comics #22 was definitely pressed, but I see no evidence that it was dry cleaned or otherwise cleaned. The second scan is just brighter. If it were dry cleaned, the mark along the spine and the light surface soiling near the bottom spine would be gone or at least reduced somewhat. I see no indication that the slightly lighter appearance of those things are a result of anything but a brigher scan. And yet the writer of the text has passed judgment on that book, stating it was dry cleaned.

 

More Fun #71 -- the committee forgot to mention the fact that the back cover was dry cleaned.

 

Don't you think your post above is much better without the graemlins? I do.......

[Frisco Larson]

Now, now, you are becoming guilty of what you criticize.

How so? I've not gone after any one side, have I ? However, it does seem to sum up the particular view points of BOTH sides.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Is your reason for owning it to say you have the nicest copy? Or is it to have a nice copy. If you want to say you have the nicest I say check your ego. If you want a nice one then I say pay the price that is comfortable for you.

 

ricky, i swear, if you actually influence some of these flat-earthers to the point they stop their screeds, it's gonna be me and you. tell me this stuff isn't funnier than everybody loves raymond reruns! if you don't start being REALLY careful slinging these disgustingly sensible comments around like nobody could get hurt, we're going to lose some fun. you stand warned.

I wouldn't worry about influencing anyones opinion here. It seems to me that most folks in this thread have already made up their minds. Then it really just comes down to choosing a side. Are you with the Puritan Opposition On Pressings Outrageous Opportunists or are you from the Blue Labels Over-power Weak Moral Ethics camp? All you need to do is pick a side, do whatever you must to make peace with it and move on with your life, because neither side is going to go away. There's room for everyone and the fact that we all love comics indicates that none of us are ALL bad.

 

Pick a side? No thanks. I prefer to continue thinking for myself.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Now, now, you are becoming guilty of what you criticize.

How so? I've not gone after any one side, have I ? However, it does seem to sum up the particular view points of BOTH sides.

 

The problem is....there are more than 2 sides to these issues. This isn't politics, despite what some here seem to believe.

[Frisco Larson]

Is your reason for owning it to say you have the nicest copy? Or is it to have a nice copy. If you want to say you have the nicest I say check your ego. If you want a nice one then I say pay the price that is comfortable for you.

 

ricky, i swear, if you actually influence some of these flat-earthers to the point they stop their screeds, it's gonna be me and you. tell me this stuff isn't funnier than everybody loves raymond reruns! if you don't start being REALLY careful slinging these disgustingly sensible comments around like nobody could get hurt, we're going to lose some fun. you stand warned.

I wouldn't worry about influencing anyones opinion here. It seems to me that most folks in this thread have already made up their minds. Then it really just comes down to choosing a side. Are you with the Puritan Opposition On Pressings Outrageous Opportunists or are you from the Blue Labels Over-power Weak Moral Ethics camp? All you need to do is pick a side, do whatever you must to make peace with it and move on with your life, because neither side is going to go away. There's room for everyone and the fact that we all love comics indicates that none of us are ALL bad.

 

Pick a side? No thanks. I prefer to continue thinking for myself.

Indeed, as do I. That post is more for those who feel the need to argue.

[Forbush-Man]

fair enough. He's grating I guess, and unapologetic about his opinions etc. Wait, now I'm confused who I'm talking about!

 

Ian Levine?