Official Market Crash Thread: Part Two!

[murph0]

Actually, a lot of people realized that when Peapod.com filed for bankruptcy and as you may or may not recall a fairly large sell off occured.

 

Brian

[comicinvestor-migration]

Hey CI, how many of those Amazing Spider-Man 129's do you have now? Better get rid of them before the market crashes, say I know someone that might be interested in one.

 

I think you have me confused with someone who overpays for comics and is then under the impression that they're investing.

 

My idea of the good comic investment? : A Hulk 181 at a $20 BIN.

[delekkerste]

What remains to be seen is how many more Defenders 1 9.8 will follow? If the answer is very few, then the book may be worth chasing.

 

Doc, I have to disagree with this line of thinking. There's rarity and there's what I would term "intrinsic value". Even if we don't see more 9.8 copies, as I said before, come on, this is the freakin' lowly DEFENDERS we're talking about. Is it really a $2200+ book in ANY grade? Of course it's only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it, but again, come on, this is the freakin' lowly DEFENDERS we're talking about!!!

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

[delekkerste]

I still own shares of stock of Mcleod USA..a company that was at 100 dollars 2 years ago and is now worth 50 cents..I stayed invested b/c I think it's good that a local Iowa company is/was starting to do well.

 

Jeez Murph, I feel bad for you. Please go rent the movie "Other People's Money" and listen to Larry the Liquidator's speech to the New England Wire and Cable shareholders. You buy a stock for ONE reason and ONE reason only: to make money. Buying the stock and holding it down to a 99.5% loss doesn't help you, the company, Iowa or anybody else. While you were losing your shirt, how much money did ol' Clark and the boys make in salary, bonus and stock and option sales?

 

As for comics, if you are an investor or speculator, you only buy if you think the book is going up. If you are a collector, price is not your only motivation, but if you believe in that economic and financial theory that they teach at the University of Iowa, a "rational" market participant is going to notice that when prices are deflating, it pays not to be a sucker and to wait for better prices.

 

Gene Gekko

[Guest]

There's rarity and there's what I would term "intrinsic value". Even if we don't see more 9.8 copies, as I said before, come on, this is the freakin' lowly DEFENDERS we're talking about. Is it really a $2200+ book in ANY grade? Of course it's only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it, but again, come on, this is the freakin' lowly DEFENDERS we're talking about!!!

 

That's how I feel about the Defenders, but it only takes a few 30-somethings like the members of this board to have fond memories of the Defenders, and the chase is on!! My view on the 'intrinsic value' of this book is low, at least at $2200. Bruce and greggy may disagree with us, however, and if a few collectors as passionate as Bruce want the book, then up goes the price. But, if the supply increases and satisfies this demand, then $2200 will likely be out of line.

 

How many Defenders 1 9.8s are waiting out there?

[murph0]

Odd, I've never bought planning for the book to go up in value..especially with these CGC prices..I've bought a couple ASM books CGC graded for around 200 dollars that I doubt in 2 years will be worth 150. Sometimes you just pay for something you like..and if you question that investing in a company when it's down doesn't help go ahead and ask the CEO of Microware in Des Moines what happened when they were nearly out of business and the stock was at .08 cents.

Anyways, if as you seem to be putting it the only reason for people to spend money would be to make money..then the world is a pretty sad place.

 

Brian

[Guest]

Post deleted by Doc

[Guest]

Anyways, if as you seem to be putting it the only reason for people to spend money would be to make money..then the world is a pretty sad place.

 

I'm afraid I see it that way, as far as stocks are concerned. Spend money to make money. One of the cutthroat elegances of the stock market process is that poorly performing, inefficient companies are sold off eventually, and good companies are rewarded with purchase of their stock.

[murph0]

So you've never donated money to a charity before?

 

Brian

[delekkerste]

Thankfully I'll keep thinking positively and believe, like the majority of economists that the U.S. economy will recover.

 

Economists, particular of the American variety, are perma-bull optimists. Precisely none of the mainstream economists predicted the current economic malaise even though I would argue the signs were pretty obvious. To paraphrase Gordon Gekko, economists are like sheep...and SHEEP GET SLAUGHTERED.

 

Like CI, I've made a living out of not being a sucker. If I'm wrong about my forecast for a downturn in comic prices, the downside is minimal. Prices may go a little higher, but I'll have a lot of money saved up preparing for the rainy day that never came. On the other hand, if you follow the bullish herd and keep paying top dollar and my forecast for both a comic book and economic meltdown happen to be right...well, you'll be finding yourself in a world of hurt. It's a very asymmetrical payoff matrix. Only if comic prices "go parabolic" from these levels will you go wrong following my cautious strategy. And I don't think even the most bullish prognosticators on this Board are predicting that.

 

Gene

[Guest]

I'm only referring to stocks, murph0.

[murph0]

Anyways, I'm done with this thread..the majority of this is all bull.. I'd hate to see what some of these guys would do to themselves if left alone with some of these attitudes..probably become manic depressive..EVERYTHING seems to have some negative alterior motive to them. Spend too much time in this thread and they may convince you to give away all your money for fear that the American dollar may "crash" b/c North Korea boycotts it..

 

Brian

[Guest]

btw, I like your Chaykin quote, Gene.

 

My favorite Chaykin-ism is his statement comparing being a comic creator superstar to being the world's tallest midget!

[delekkerste]

So you've never donated money to a charity before?

 

I know this is addressed to Doc, but let me answer this to dispel the warped image some of you have of me as some arch-capitalist fiend curmudgeon doom and gloomer.

 

I do give to charities. I have given to several this year (a charity for breast cancer, a charity for leukemia and a couple of 9/11 charities, just off the top of my head). You may recall that I ran several Auctions for America on eBay supporting the American Red Cross and the Twin Towers Fund.

 

I do NOT believe that you should just spend to make money, as you suggested. Of course not. However, one does NOT "spend" money in the stock market. One "invests" money in the stock market. Publicly traded companies are NOT charities. It is NOT your obligation to lose your hard-earned money so Clark McLeod can keep making millions for himself. The sooner you learn this lesson, the farther you will go in the financial world and in life.

 

Comics, on the other hand, can be viewed as either investment or discretionary spending. Either way, it pays to be prudent, though I, like yourself, have overpaid on occasion for that "gotta have" collectible. However, if a person systematically overpays for everything, I would say that is simply foolish.

 

Gene

[murph0]

Actually, I haven't seen Clark making a lot of money..to tell you the truth he just moved out of the neighborhood. Tell me why he would buy a cheaper house if he's making millions a year? :\

 

Brian

[delekkerste]

btw, I like your Chaykin quote, Gene.

 

Chaykin is great. I love the "American Century" series that Vertigo publishes. The anti-hero Harry Kraft is awesome - globe-hopping, womanizing, doesn't give a flying @$#& what people think about him! My own personal role model.

 

Gene

[murph0]

And I'm not really sure why you don't see my point that some people just buy the books b/c they are what they like. I made the example that I have bought a bunch of books that I KNOW I will lose money on. There ARE people like that out there..

 

Brian

[Guest]

Oh... so you must be the other guy who reads American Century. I love it, and I hope it runs a long time.

 

I don't know too many other people who read it, though, and I keep fearing each upcoming Previews will herald that month's solicited issue as the last.

[drbanner]

Thanks for starting this thread up again, as I'm sure there was much pent-up "commentary" that needed to get out, and we all know expression is the best form of therapy.

 

I do have a question I've been meaning to ask you graded collectible evoloutionary theorists (and coins guys) - what happened to "raw" coin and card prices 2-5-10 years after the grading services started up and prices skyrocketed? How about low-mid grade (graded and raw) prices? High grade raw comics have shown steady price increases since the CGC-spike, while low-mid grade silver/bronze books have remained flat (half guide or less).

 

In addition to my interest in the future of comics, I have another reason to ask - my father-in-law is about to retire, and has the most incredible football and baseball card and sports memorabilia collection I've ever seen. I think he has every football card published before 1957, in July he showed me TEN Barry Bonds rookie cards, he has multiple Emmitt rookie cards (what good Gator doesn't?), and the list just goes on and on (I assume, but since I never collected cards I can't really judge the content of his collection). He wants to thin out his collection as a part-time hobby when he retires, and I'm trying to get him to get some of his stuff graded, good idea, or no (and why)?

[sborock]

"so you must be the other guy who reads American Century."

 

Hey Doc, I thought I was that guy! So, there is at least 3 of us. I love almost anything by Howie, except maybe Black Kiss. Gene's Chaykin quote is soooooooo true! Almost everything I love to read gets cancelled I hope that is not true for AC!