Ink Pen removal, how do you feel about it?

[Ze-man]

We all have seen it many times, writing on a book some kid took a pen to years ago. Tracing or outlining of the logo, drawing on characters faces or just scribbling on the cover. I am curious how people feel about removal of these kinds of things when restoring a book if you cannot get it all out. Would you say go for it, or just leave it alone?

 

Are the impressions left behind as undesirable as the writing was? Because while these indents are improved through wet washing and pressing, many times the paper is simply gouged by the pen to the point of almost breaking.

 

Over the years I have dabbled with pen removal with various success depending on what era book it is, what type of pen was used and how long ago it was done. The rub is that it is only removable with solvents which can also remove, fade, or bleed cover inks. Get too aggressive in removing the writing and you can literally scrub or float off covers inks in the process. So think of the below examples as if these were key books, would you want it left alone or would you prefer to remove as much as possible even if it could not be removed 100%

 

These are all from reader copies I practiced on in recent years. The pages in these photos were not wet washed, just solvent bath.

 

Unfortunately I deleted the before photos of this book long ago but you can make out where the writing used to be on his face, the yellow letters also had writing. While the overall cover is brighter as a result of the solvent bath the blue background suffered a little. Is the removal of the writing worth this type of risk to you?

 

 

 

Here is an interior where some kid turned Casper into a girl with a blue dress..

Because the pen writing was so heavy and the interior inks so thin I couldn't get it all out safely. In general would you prefer this left alone since it cannot be removed 100%, or if it was a Tec 29 would you prefer to get out as much of the pen as possible?

 

To be clear, I cut the page in half and only worked on the top half.

 

 

Basic writing on an interior page. If it was not an authentic sig, or part of a pedigree would you want it removed if it was still partially visible after wards.

[CheezyWhiz]

Cool, Kenny! I'm impressed that you can remove ink at all. Neato!

 

Regarding the cover: From some angles, it certainly looks better, but all the damage is still there if the light catches it on an angle. The entire top half generally looks lighter than the bottom half.. is that a side effect of the process, or just grime/dirt removal from the bath? It would be hard for me to justify having the pen marks removed if the entire cover was lightened as a result.

 

Regarding the interior: I would prefer to leave it as it was. The end result if not appealing enough to justify the cost or the possible damage to the book, IMHO.

 

BTW.. this would have been a much more effective demonstration if you had done the work on some key books.

[Boozad]

For the cover and the 'Stan Lee' I would definitely prefer it removed. I'm in two minds about the defacing of Casper though, it's still blue enough to put me off.

 

Great work there Kenny.

[rob_allan]

First off-- great work that you're showing here.

 

In regard to your question, let me first say that I HATE writing in/on books. I have culled every book with any form of writing from my collection (even peds.) They're gone. I don't even miss them. Writing makes me feel like the book isn't MINE. So this kind of work is really valuable to someone like me that really, truly HATES it. (Screw providence-- I hate date stamps just as much.) I would rather own a 2.0 comic book than an 8.0 with writing or a date stamp. (Not exaggerating-- I ditched an 8.0 FF 49 and love my 3.5-4.0 copy much more.) I also don't mind restored books, so no prejudice in my view.

 

So with these specific examples here are my thoughts:

 

Spidey 6- If someone gave me this book prior to sig removal, I would have gotten rid of it. (And my love of Spidey is well documented on these boards.) I have resold, returned, given away books for less than that. After your work on this book-- I would buy it. The impression left is minimal and I'm not sure I'd even see the defect if nobody told me. 100% worth it, IMHO. For me, the book went from something of literally no value, to a book worth a majority if not all of the value of the book's technical grade.

 

Casper - I wouldn't buy either book. So probably not worth time/effort. Result was not drastic enough to change my mind. I think any collector that would be willing to pay for the book, would pay the same for the book in both cases. Just a guess.

 

Johnny Mack Brown - Same as Casper. I can't hide the effect from my mind's eye.

 

 

I guess what it comes down to for me is whether or not I can "forget" the markings were ever there.

 

Hopefully this response is helpful. It certainly was long winded, and I apologize! (And I'm not book bashing and saying the books are horrible or worthless so please nobody read into that. This is just my personal criteria for my collection.)

 

-Rob-

[cheetah]

The glasses and mustache were a nice touch. However, the side burns were over the top.

 

 

Is there any means of removing ballpoint pen that wont end up with a PLOD?

[rob_allan]

The glasses and mustache were a nice touch. However, the side burns were over the top.

 

 

Is there any means of removing ballpoint pen that wont end up with a PLOD?

 

Cut it out. That would change the technical grade, though. There is some eraser-like material you can ball up that will lift LIGHT ink off of a cover. I have yet to encounter markings light enough that it removed them completely. So that may not be useful info either. I'm sure Kenny will eventually chime in with a more expert opinion. If the answer to this is "yes," I'll be floored and will send you flowers or something less fruity.

 

-Rob-

[Boozad]

Kenny, how would pressing affect the indentations left byt the pen? I know absolutely jack about pressing, I never get involved in the threads, and I'm just curious as to whether pressing could remove them. Or at least improve the appearance.

[rob_allan]

Kenny, how would pressing affect the indentations left byt the pen? I know absolutely jack about pressing, I never get involved in the threads, and I'm just curious as to whether pressing could remove them. Or at least improve the appearance.

 

Where it broke color, the missing color would still be there. The paper is also thinned out and pressing probably wouldn't change that. It might smooth out the texture somewhat in various areas so the difference doesn't appear as dramatic. But from looking at the pic with Mack, for example, the paper has sustained permanent damage.

 

Now if it's a light, ncb indent ... you could potentially get some results. But usually pens do quite a bit of damage to the paper. Just from what I've seen personally. I guess if the person wrote with a REALLY light hand...

[Boozad]

Kenny, how would pressing affect the indentations left byt the pen? I know absolutely jack about pressing, I never get involved in the threads, and I'm just curious as to whether pressing could remove them. Or at least improve the appearance.

 

Where it broke color, the missing color would still be there. The paper is also thinned out and pressing probably wouldn't change that. It might smooth out the texture somewhat in various areas so the difference doesn't appear as dramatic. But from looking at the pic with Mack, for example, the paper has sustained permanent damage.

 

Now if it's a light, ncb indent ... you could potentially get some results. But usually pens do quite a bit of damage to the paper. Just from what I've seen personally. I guess if the person wrote with a REALLY light hand...

 

Thanks dude (thumbs u

[rob_allan]

Kenny, how would pressing affect the indentations left byt the pen? I know absolutely jack about pressing, I never get involved in the threads, and I'm just curious as to whether pressing could remove them. Or at least improve the appearance.

 

Where it broke color, the missing color would still be there. The paper is also thinned out and pressing probably wouldn't change that. It might smooth out the texture somewhat in various areas so the difference doesn't appear as dramatic. But from looking at the pic with Mack, for example, the paper has sustained permanent damage.

 

Now if it's a light, ncb indent ... you could potentially get some results. But usually pens do quite a bit of damage to the paper. Just from what I've seen personally. I guess if the person wrote with a REALLY light hand...

 

Thanks dude (thumbs u

 

You know, FWIW -- you can do that with pencil marks in some cases. I actually did dry erase an area on a book and had it pressed and it APPEARED to have pressed right out. The book came back to me in a slab which could have hidden some of the impression, but I think that did press right out like butta.

 

 

[The_Captain]

Very cool job, Kenny!

 

However, if the book is otherwise unrestored and would get a PLOD just because of this, I wouln´t do it, simply becaue it would pull down the books value.

Especially if this book is an otherwise unrestored Tec 29.

 

If the book was already restored, I would definitely want to have it removed.

 

If it was in an inner page, I wouldn´t care that much, but still wouldn´t touch it, if it was unrestored ow.

 

If it was an authentic sig, I wouldn´t want to have it removed. Especially if the sigs say Siegel, Kane, Kirby etc.

 

If the particular book was not to be sold and would stay in my pers. coll., wouldn´t be high grade or of much value, I might want to have it removed, so I can read the book over and over again, without being disturbed by the writings............

 

Does this last part make any sense?

 

[Ze-man]

The glasses and mustache were a nice touch. However, the side burns were over the top.

 

 

Is there any means of removing ballpoint pen that wont end up with a PLOD?

 

Cut it out. That would change the technical grade, though. There is some eraser-like material you can ball up that will lift LIGHT ink off of a cover. I have yet to encounter markings light enough that it removed them completely. So that may not be useful info either. I'm sure Kenny will eventually chime in with a more expert opinion. If the answer to this is "yes," I'll be floored and will send you flowers or something less fruity.

 

-Rob-

 

You mean silly putty? j/k

 

And that is actually a good question, I wonder if it is similar to how they handle tape removal or dry cleaning? Leftover tape stains or aggressive dry cleaning are visible as are remaining pen indentations, would they just downgrade for it accordingly but not consider the book restored? I had honestly not even thought about that aspect of it, I was just curious about how people viewed writing, and it's partial removal if possible.

[Ze-man]

 

BTW.. this would have been a much more effective demonstration if you had done the work on some key books.

 

I have, but they aren't my books to post. One was actually a Tec 29 some kid drew all over Batmans cape which was what prompted this thread. You'll just have to settle for my lil' ol Goth Girl Casper example.

 

Thanks for all the comments though, it is just something I have stewed on recently and thought I would get other peoples take on it. Ultimately the damage caused by this type of writing is a no win scenario. Remove the writing and you are left with residual writing marks. Or possibly damaging the cover itself.

 

Short of CT'ing the entire area it is better off leaving them alone unless a test reveals they will lift off easily and quickly

[Ze-man]

Kenny, how would pressing affect the indentations left byt the pen? I know absolutely jack about pressing, I never get involved in the threads, and I'm just curious as to whether pressing could remove them. Or at least improve the appearance.

 

Actually yes and no. You can press out the indentations for the most part but there is still some kind of residual image that remains from the damage caused by the pen. Look at it in normal viewing and you cannot see or feel it, hold it at an angle and there it is.

 

Kind of hard to show in a photo as you have to rotate it under raking light to even see it.

 

 

[c-mack]

wow! thats pretty shape work....how much would the "stan lee" pen link knock down the grade if you left it there?

[BrianR]

After seeing the final results of the western after pressing. I would definitely have ink removal done. The end results are very nice. Interior pages with the removal are far less distracting, and allow you to enjoy the book better. Quality work as usual Kenny.

 

I really need to start learning the art of restoration.

[szelim]

If the ink removal on the Dell western is typical of what could be expected, I would think that this restoration would be worthwhile as part of a larger restoration project. While remnants of the pen/ink remain, the cover looks significantly better than with all the ink present.

 

Nice work, Kenny!

 

[JazzMan]

Nice work, Kenny. However, in my personal opinion, I would be bothered more by the "ghost" that is left behind than the writing. Although pressing out the original imprints seem to help out the cover quite a bit.

[Ze-man]

Nice work, Kenny. However, in my personal opinion, I would be bothered more by the "ghost" that is left behind than the writing.

 

This basically is where I am at too, unless the book is already going to be heavily restored I would lean towards not removing it unless the results were dramatic like on that Hank book.

 

Thanks for the comments.

 

 

[DiceX]

I have some books from my younger years that I drew on. (Hush, it was a phase.)

Can you safely remove random from my comics?