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Value of OA When Hero Dies But Later Brought Back to Life?

Started by NelsonAI,

21 posts in this topic

NelsonAI

NelsonAI

Posted
Posted

We see it in comics all the time. A hero dies. The hero is reborn.

 

The Flash (Barry Allen), Captain America (Steve Rogers), Phoenix (Jean Grey), Superman (Clark Kent), Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) and everyone else from the Blackest Night, and the list goes on and on.

 

What happens to the value of the OA when the hero originally "dies" but revived later on?

 

Does it drop in value?

Does it maintain it's value?

Do prices actually go up because the original storyline becomes such part of the characters mythical origin?

 

(shrug)

 

Cheers!

N.

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Spider-Variant

Spider-Variant

Posted
Posted

Ok, I did a thread a while back along a similar vein, which essentially asked whether you would buy (speculate on) art that featured a historic event.

 

In this case, it was the unmasking of Spider-Man.

 

Link to the Unmasking of Spider-Man Art

 

 

The pages were $7500 a piece. Two out of the three are still unsold.

 

The unmasking was retconned away, so what is the significance of the pages today?

 

I feel in this case, had you gambled, I think you would have a hard time recouping your money.

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Mighty Hal

Mighty Hal

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Thanks for the link! I enjoyed following it.

 

$7500 seems like krazy money but there isn't a cheap Steve McNiven/Civil War splash on The Artist's Choice. Every SP seems to run $3k and up...making the unmasking (in comparison) almost reasonable.

 

If you want to argue that $3K and up for a relatively new bit of splash art ISN'T reasonable, well, I'm guessing that there are a lot of folks that would agree with you.

 

 

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NelsonAI

NelsonAI

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Prices of any modern era art seems to be speculative these days. lol.

 

If you look at the strength of the artwork itself from "death" issues, over a long term period, the values seem to have done okay for top tier art and a great storyline.

 

From what I can ascertain, there is always a demand for vintage and quality art drawn by top artists such as George Perez (Crisis on Infinite Earths - "death" of Barry Allen) and John Byrne (Uncanny X-Men - "death" of Phoenix) when combined with great writing. Bringing those characters back from "death" did not slow the upward pricing trend of the art connected with those stories.

 

I'll be happy to buy Hari's Flash cover from that series if he'll part with it. Same with the cover to X-Men #137.

 

I'm not so sure the other "death" issues would be considered classic art or storytelling. The Superman stories for example, broke sales records and auctioned off for an incredible amount of money at that time. Pages would still be collectible but would they command a premium from the original purchase price? IMHO I would be surprised if they did. Then again, when compared to some modern era art prices, they may seem reasonable.

 

Cheers!

N.

 

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Claudio

Claudio

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The Superman stories for example, broke sales records and auctioned off for an incredible amount of money at that time. Pages would still be collectible but would they command a premium from the original purchase price? IMHO I would be surprised if they did. Then again, when compared to some modern era art prices, they may seem reasonable.

 

I bet they would command a premium. It is very cheesy but it is a freakin comic book, ya know! Even the best superhero storylines aren't exactly Shakespeare! lol. Besides, it really resonates in pop culture. Most people know that Superman died while most people don't know that the X-Men 3 movie was a horrible adaptation from the comic. They probably just think it is a horrible movie. Now, I am not saying that Death of Sups is more desirable, I am just saying you'd probably be surprised how much it is worth.

 

I bet very few people know that Spidey revealed his identity to the world...

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AKA Rick

AKA Rick

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Well... at least there's no turning back or undoing any "First Appearances" of characters... and to another degree, sometimes a minor character ends up evolving into a major charcter (like X-23, Sabretooth, Emma Frost, etc.). I'm looking for the Jae Lee "Marvel Knights Inhumans" page with the 1st appearance of The Black Widow actually...

 

I'd be interested in any pages from the Death of Superman / Doomsday storyline actually because of the story more-so than the artwork. The nostalgia will always command a certain amount of interest.

 

I'd agree that unless the storyline was epic and/or the artwork spectacular, the "death" of any character, although collectible as an event and even something to frame up and display, hardly warrants carrying an extreme premium if it's subsequently undone and life goes on with the character, rendering the death storyline to a meaningless event.

 

The only DEATHS I think that are remarkable are Gwen Stacy, Green Goblin, Phoenix, The Flash, Superman, and most recently Captain America.

 

Other EVENT issues of modern times I think include when Rodney takes over as IRON MAN; when Spider-Man changes to the Black Costume; Any notable costume changes (like Daredevil) and some of the wedding/marriage issues.

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buyatari

buyatari

Posted
Posted

 

The only DEATHS I think that are remarkable are Gwen Stacy, Green Goblin, Phoenix, The Flash, Superman, and most recently Captain America.

 

 

I'd love to have the page of the Joker beating the snot out of the Robin with the crowbar.

 

Also The Death of Captain Marvel was a pretty important death.

 

How about Cerebus?

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Khazano

Khazano

Posted
Posted
The Superman stories for example, broke sales records and auctioned off for an incredible amount of money at that time. Pages would still be collectible but would they command a premium from the original purchase price? IMHO I would be surprised if they did. Then again, when compared to some modern era art prices, they may seem reasonable.

 

I bet they would command a premium. It is very cheesy but it is a freakin comic book, ya know! Even the best superhero storylines aren't exactly Shakespeare! lol. Besides, it really resonates in pop culture. Most people know that Superman died while most people don't know that the X-Men 3 movie was a horrible adaptation from the comic. They probably just think it is a horrible movie. Now, I am not saying that Death of Sups is more desirable, I am just saying you'd probably be surprised how much it is worth.

 

I bet very few people know that Spidey revealed his identity to the world...

 

 

There arent enough collectors like you and I quite yet for teh DOS artwork too command the type of value it will one day fetch, and originally sold for...When more collectors our age get more disposable income thats when the nostalgia factor will start hitting HARD and it will indeed command those premium prices. (Lets face it Claudio, theres only a handful of people from our era buying this stuff at our level right now.) But if memory serves me correct the price the DOS artwork sold for at the SOothbys auction worked out to about 3-5k per splash... ... And the DOS artwork isnt worth quite that much...yet...

 

-- As for the Spidey identity reveal. I do know the person whom bought the big page did buy it under the pretense that it was a real change and would be so for the years to come. OMD probably made his heart fall into his stomach as that page essentially became a gimmick and lost its value real quick... Same thing happened with the group of pages where Spidey revealed his identity to Aunt May.

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malvin

malvin

Posted
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The only DEATHS I think that are remarkable are Gwen Stacy, Green Goblin, Phoenix, The Flash, Superman, and most recently Captain America.

 

 

I'd love to have the page of the Joker beating the snot out of the Robin with the crowbar.

 

Also The Death of Captain Marvel was a pretty important death.

 

How about Cerebus?

 

You know me and another boarder were discussing that we have not seen a single page from the Death in the Family storyline in the market. Same rabid collector, or a select few must have bought them up and locked them away.

 

Anyways, I've mentioned it here before but I'll mention again. In OA, you can sometimes get an awesome equivalent. I haven't seen OA to that storyline, but apparently there were trading cards that recapped it. The art was by the same artist - Jim Aparo too!

 

I managed to get a couple, including the one with Batman finding Robin dead:

 

CAF link to trading card OA of Batman finding Robin dead by Jim Aparo

 

CAF link to trading card OA of Robin finding his mom by Jim Aparo

 

As for the original topic, my opinion is, you never know. Just like the comic, sometimes the hype is huge, values go up.. and keeps on going up. Sometimes the values go up and stay up. But more often than not, the hype dies down and values fall. As we've said, alot of times it gets retconned away, or the hype brings in people that normally don't collect into the market. Once those people leave, values go down.

 

Malvin

 

 

 

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Artemaria

Artemaria

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Posted

Nelson -

 

This is a terrific thread.

 

Generally speaking, in most cases, it seems as if the values go up at least temporarily, and then once (if) the death becomes a forgotten storyline, the values do recede a little.

 

A decent example of this is the Captain America death/rebirth storyline. Captain America art from the death issue is highly collectible right now. However, whether it will remain so in fifteen years, remains to be seen.

 

About fifteen years ago, the death of Superman was the most popular book on the planet. The OA for that book was expensive for its time. Although it is hard to find now, I'm of the impression the pages are not valued the same way they were when the story was fresher. Tellingly, with the exception of the occasional reference, in the Superman comics, the death storyline is not prominent.

 

Of course, I agree with some of the posts that the really great classic death stories (death of Phoenix, Captain Marvel, Flash, etc.), retain their value. But I don't think this is exclusively because the art is from the "death" issues. I think this is because the art is from a particularly poignant part of a great storylines with exceptional art.

 

Using the death of Phoenix as an example, all of the Byrne/Austin X-men pages are not cheap, and the death of Phoenix pages are somewhat more expensive than those. It is not as if the death of Phoenix pages are 20x more expensive than the other Byrne/Austin X-men pages, but they do carry a premium, because it was a particularly memorable story in a great run.

 

Another similar example are Starlin Captain Marvel pages, they are all pricey, but the death pages are a little more expensive. However, this may not be the best example, because I believe that there is a reduced market value of certain pages from the Death of Captain Marvel Graphic Novel because some of the pages from that graphic novel were inked in marker and are beginning to show some fade.

 

Based on what I've seen, while all death stories get some kind of a value bump (which may or may not recede) the truly memorable stories from great runs retain their value significantly better than others.

 

Best regards.

 

- Artemis

 

 

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WYLDCHYLD

WYLDCHYLD

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Posted

Deaths that I think were well-done and have huge good nostalgic value that will last:

-Death of Phoenix (X-men #137)

-Death of Supergirl (Crisis #7)

-Death of Flash (Crisis #8)

-Death of Gwen Stacey (Amaz. Spidey #121)

-Death of Green Goblin (Amaz. Spidey #122)

-Bucky (Avengers #4 explains his death)

-Terra (New Teen Titans Annual #3)

 

Deaths that were done poorly/gimicky that most won't care about (yawn):

Green Arrow

Green Lantern (Hal)

Martian Manhunter

Firestorm (Ronnie Raymond)

Batman

Aquaman

 

"Events" that will be well-remembered that were just...cool...:

-Shooting of Barbara Gordon (Killing Joke)

-Death of Jason Todd (Batman-Death in the Family)

 

"Wildcards"...will be remembered for better or worse...time will tell...:

-Death of Superman (the most speculated comic ever?)

-Breaking of Batman's back (gimmick)

-Death of Capt America (well done story...)

 

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malvin

malvin

Posted
Posted
Re: Death in the Family art

 

There is always the Donnely "unused cover"... believe me, because of the scarcity of the art from that story, I've actually considered it...

 

When I first saw it, I didn't realize it was unused and considered it too! Of course the fact that its unused turned me off.

 

Malvin

 

 

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GotSuperPowers?

GotSuperPowers?

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Posted
Re: Death in the Family art

 

There is always the Donnely "unused cover"... believe me, because of the scarcity of the art from that story, I've actually considered it...

 

When I first saw it, I didn't realize it was unused and considered it too! Of course the fact that its unused turned me off.

 

Malvin

 

 

Why by turned off by it? It should be cheaper... lol

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irchooker

irchooker

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Re: Death in the Family art

 

There is always the Donnely "unused cover"... believe me, because of the scarcity of the art from that story, I've actually considered it...

 

When I first saw it, I didn't realize it was unused and considered it too! Of course the fact that its unused turned me off.

 

Malvin

 

 

Why by turned off by it? It should be cheaper... lol

 

And knowing what they bid on ebay to get that piece, the current 8x markup is scary. Sold by a long time Minnesota collector, then jumped on and given the faux cover treartment of pasteups and overlays.

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malvin

malvin

Posted
Posted
Re: Death in the Family art

 

There is always the Donnely "unused cover"... believe me, because of the scarcity of the art from that story, I've actually considered it...

 

When I first saw it, I didn't realize it was unused and considered it too! Of course the fact that its unused turned me off.

 

Malvin

 

 

Why by turned off by it? It should be cheaper... lol

 

lol, I'm turned off at the current price.

 

The opposite works though.

 

A low price always turns me on!

 

Malvin

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Nexus

Nexus

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Posted

 

A low price always turns me on!

 

Malvin

 

TMI, Malvin, TMI... :baiting:

 

I remember when this cover was sold on Ebay (by Joel Thingvall, iirc) but I don't remember what it sold for. Is the markup really 8X now?

 

It does appear to be the MO of the Donnellys to dress-up covers with replacement stats. That's fine, but they should be disclosed as replacements. As a buyer, it's not a deal-breaker, but I do want to know what's original and what's not.

 

 

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jonjesper

jonjesper

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We will be putting up the Death of Batman splash page (from Final Crisis #6) on Comic Art Fans under the Mahnke gallery shortly, should be interesting to see what happens! Just thought I would add it here since it is one of the recent 'deaths' in comics...

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