CGC grading "soft" lately?

[qualitycomix]

West and I had a friendly PM exchange regarding this collection. There are many explanations as to why the books were graded what they were.

 

Thinking thru the situation and also hearing West's reasoning, I don't think that the $40K paid had any bearing at all on the "gift" grades (imho) that Mound City received.

 

 

[AtlasFan]

I always cringe when I hear the term "gift grade"... It would seem to imply that the level of "softness" in grading would not be a compeatly random event, but rather somehow "calculated" for specific clients or by the number of submissions that a client had sent to CGC at any given time...

 

If Mound City dropped, say $40K worth of sunmission fees in CGC's lap, would that be a factor in the level of "softness" for their books? I wonder what the results would be if I cracked out my 9.0 MC book (which looks like a 8.0, at best) and submitted via economy rates...

[VintageComics]

The term "gift grade" is not meant to be an accusation that there was something off color going on. It just means that for some reason (usually luck of the draw) the book was graded a bit loose.

 

There are many reasons for that to happen and I don't believe for one second that dishonesty or bribery is one of them.

 

 

[G.A.tor]

mound city didn't even have a clue about comics, I can see NO reason anyone would imply or assume cgc would "give" gift grades...I think the implication is that the books, to some, seem loosely graded...

 

that said, we can't see the inside of the book or the covers...that often times is a big part of the grade...sometimes folks try to compare a 9.4 to a 9.2 and they think the 9.2 "looks" better than the 9.4, when in reality there might be defects not visible (like a page tear, etc) and therefore, comparing the 2 just from the cover is not a "fair" comparision.... there are a myriad of other reasons, of course, but unless one goes from start to finish, I don't see how anyone can use the term "loose" or gift, without knowing all the facts

[MCMiles]

mound city didn't even have a clue about comics, I can see NO reason anyone would imply or assume cgc would "give" gift grades...I think the implication is that the books, to some, seem loosely graded...

 

that said, we can't see the inside of the book or the covers...that often times is a big part of the grade...sometimes folks try to compare a 9.4 to a 9.2 and they think the 9.2 "looks" better than the 9.4, when in reality there might be defects not visible (like a page tear, etc) and therefore, comparing the 2 just from the cover is not a "fair" comparision.... there are a myriad of other reasons, of course, but unless one goes from start to finish, I don't see how anyone can use the term "loose" or gift, without knowing all the facts

 

That matters?

[qualitycomix]

mound city didn't even have a clue about comics, I can see NO reason anyone would imply or assume cgc would "give" gift grades...I think the implication is that the books, to some, seem loosely graded...

 

that said, we can't see the inside of the book or the covers...that often times is a big part of the grade...sometimes folks try to compare a 9.4 to a 9.2 and they think the 9.2 "looks" better than the 9.4, when in reality there might be defects not visible (like a page tear, etc) and therefore, comparing the 2 just from the cover is not a "fair" comparision.... there are a myriad of other reasons, of course, but unless one goes from start to finish, I don't see how anyone can use the term "loose" or gift, without knowing all the facts

 

That matters?

 

Seeing the whole collection was an eye opener. The conclusion that I drew as to WHY the books were graded the way they were was erroneous and I admitted such.

[G.A.tor]

mound city didn't even have a clue about comics, I can see NO reason anyone would imply or assume cgc would "give" gift grades...I think the implication is that the books, to some, seem loosely graded...

 

that said, we can't see the inside of the book or the covers...that often times is a big part of the grade...sometimes folks try to compare a 9.4 to a 9.2 and they think the 9.2 "looks" better than the 9.4, when in reality there might be defects not visible (like a page tear, etc) and therefore, comparing the 2 just from the cover is not a "fair" comparision.... there are a myriad of other reasons, of course, but unless one goes from start to finish, I don't see how anyone can use the term "loose" or gift, without knowing all the facts

 

That matters?

 

Seeing the whole collection was an eye opener. The conclusion that I drew as to WHY the books were graded the way they were was erroneous and I admitted such.

brent, my comment was not directed at you, but a general statement that folks , for the most part, shouldn't make decisions about grading (or how a book(s) were graded) without knowing all that went into the grade...

 

so many times I hear that example I mentioned above...about how a 9.2 "looks" better than some 9.4's, etc...but what folks possibly don't realize is that the 9.2 has a faint inside cover crease, or a page tear ,etc... grading is more than just the cover, it is the entire book and unless you are the submitter, one doesn't know the whole book once encapsulated, right (thumbs u

[Hedge Collector]

mound city didn't even have a clue about comics, I can see NO reason anyone would imply or assume cgc would "give" gift grades...I think the implication is that the books, to some, seem loosely graded...

 

that said, we can't see the inside of the book or the covers...that often times is a big part of the grade...sometimes folks try to compare a 9.4 to a 9.2 and they think the 9.2 "looks" better than the 9.4, when in reality there might be defects not visible (like a page tear, etc) and therefore, comparing the 2 just from the cover is not a "fair" comparision.... there are a myriad of other reasons, of course, but unless one goes from start to finish, I don't see how anyone can use the term "loose" or gift, without knowing all the facts

 

That matters?

 

Seeing the whole collection was an eye opener. The conclusion that I drew as to WHY the books were graded the way they were was erroneous and I admitted such.

 

But do you still believe that the collection as a whole was graded rather "loose?"

 

What was "the reason" for the grading as it were? Time constraint? Pre-screen bias?

[MCMiles]

mound city didn't even have a clue about comics, I can see NO reason anyone would imply or assume cgc would "give" gift grades...I think the implication is that the books, to some, seem loosely graded...

 

that said, we can't see the inside of the book or the covers...that often times is a big part of the grade...sometimes folks try to compare a 9.4 to a 9.2 and they think the 9.2 "looks" better than the 9.4, when in reality there might be defects not visible (like a page tear, etc) and therefore, comparing the 2 just from the cover is not a "fair" comparision.... there are a myriad of other reasons, of course, but unless one goes from start to finish, I don't see how anyone can use the term "loose" or gift, without knowing all the facts

 

That matters?

 

Seeing the whole collection was an eye opener. The conclusion that I drew as to WHY the books were graded the way they were was erroneous and I admitted such.

My post wasn't really directed at you or even the subject matter, Brent. It was more of a smart arse remark about how we all can behave at times.

[arexcrooke]

I'm sure those 2 stress lines look much smaller in person than in that blown up scan. Don't forget, there are 5 grades HIGHER than 9.2!

 

West

 

You're right West. It should have graded 9.4 I think. Then only 4 grades higher!! In fact, since that's how most of the Mound City books were graded, maybe we should extend those grading standards to the guys who don't spend $40,000 with you. That way you could actually live up to the impartial third party grading company that you claim to be.

 

I've spent about $10,000 and submitted 300 books in the last month. NONE of my Silver Age books got gift grades like the Mound City books did. And my books actually lay flat when you crack them out of the slab!

Why dont you say something about their momma too. You have already questioned their ethics and impartiality :thumbsup:

[qualitycomix]

I'm sure those 2 stress lines look much smaller in person than in that blown up scan. Don't forget, there are 5 grades HIGHER than 9.2!

 

West

 

You're right West. It should have graded 9.4 I think. Then only 4 grades higher!! In fact, since that's how most of the Mound City books were graded, maybe we should extend those grading standards to the guys who don't spend $40,000 with you. That way you could actually live up to the impartial third party grading company that you claim to be.

 

I've spent about $10,000 and submitted 300 books in the last month. NONE of my Silver Age books got gift grades like the Mound City books did. And my books actually lay flat when you crack them out of the slab!

Why dont you say something about their momma too. You have already questioned their ethics and impartiality :thumbsup:

 

CGC's momma is loose... with her grading (thumbs u

[Point Five]

[AtlasFan]

The term "gift grade" is not meant to be an accusation that there was something off color going on. It just means that for some reason (usually luck of the draw) the book was graded a bit loose.

 

There are many reasons for that to happen and I don't believe for one second that dishonesty or bribery is one of them.

 

 

The term "loose" also keeps me up at night too.

 

There is no reason Book A should be graded a 9.2 on Tuesdays and a 8.5 on Thursdays...if the same impartial and scientific methods are used to grade a book, it should come out the same evey time...

 

Arent "gift grade" and "loose" really just code words for "special treatment"?

 

 

[Bomber-Bob]

West and I had a friendly PM exchange regarding this collection. There are many explanations as to why the books were graded what they were.

 

Thinking thru the situation and also hearing West's reasoning, I don't think that the $40K paid had any bearing at all on the "gift" grades (imho) that Mound City received.

Brent you simply must expound on your exchange with West about the 'many explanations as to why the books were graded what they were'.

I do believe in the integrity of CGC's grading but I must admit my two lousy MC books were indeed 'lousy' in appearance. Normally, I am proud of my pedigrees

and like to show them off but the MC books are embarassing to display. They do not have eye appeal.

 

[VintageComics]

The term "gift grade" is not meant to be an accusation that there was something off color going on. It just means that for some reason (usually luck of the draw) the book was graded a bit loose.

 

There are many reasons for that to happen and I don't believe for one second that dishonesty or bribery is one of them.

 

 

The term "loose" also keeps me up at night too.

 

There is no reason Book A should be graded a 9.2 on Tuesdays and a 8.5 on Thursdays...if the same impartial and scientific methods are used to grade a book, it should come out the same evey time...

 

Arent "gift grade" and "loose" really just code words for "special treatment"?

 

 

That's the notion I'm trying to dispel.

 

It's not special treatment. It's simply a random error.

 

I'm a nobody and I get the odd "gift grade". It's not like they know it's my books and they want to give me a gift.

 

We have to agree that CGC graders are just normal people and as normal people we all make mistakes or lose our objectivity from time to time, whether we care to admit it or not.

 

That's all I believe it is.

 

 

 

 

[kimik]

The term "gift grade" is not meant to be an accusation that there was something off color going on. It just means that for some reason (usually luck of the draw) the book was graded a bit loose.

 

There are many reasons for that to happen and I don't believe for one second that dishonesty or bribery is one of them.

 

 

The term "loose" also keeps me up at night too.

 

There is no reason Book A should be graded a 9.2 on Tuesdays and a 8.5 on Thursdays...if the same impartial and scientific methods are used to grade a book, it should come out the same evey time...

 

Arent "gift grade" and "loose" really just code words for "special treatment"?

 

 

That's the notion I'm trying to dispel.

 

It's not special treatment. It's simply a random error.

 

I'm a nobody and I get the odd "gift grade". It's not like they know it's my books and they want to give me a gift.

 

We have to agree that CGC graders are just normal people and as normal people we all make mistakes or lose our objectivity from time to time, whether we care to admit it or not.

 

That's all I believe it is.

 

 

 

 

And I would imagine that they had to rush through the Mound City books as well which would increase the chance for an error (just like in any other job).

 

[kimik]

West and I had a friendly PM exchange regarding this collection. There are many explanations as to why the books were graded what they were.

 

Thinking thru the situation and also hearing West's reasoning, I don't think that the $40K paid had any bearing at all on the "gift" grades (imho) that Mound City received.

Brent you simply must expound on your exchange with West about the 'many explanations as to why the books were graded what they were'.

I do believe in the integrity of CGC's grading but I must admit my two lousy MC books were indeed 'lousy' in appearance. Normally, I am proud of my pedigrees

and like to show them off but the MC books are embarassing to display. They do not have eye appeal.

 

Interesting. I was surprised at the final grade on the SC #22 in the auction but did not look that closely at other books. Granted, it is a key and there is a bit of a key bump sometimes, but I saw enough issues in the scans to say that the 8.0 on it was a gift.

[adamstrange]

I'm sure those 2 stress lines look much smaller in person than in that blown up scan. Don't forget, there are 5 grades HIGHER than 9.2!

 

West

 

Upping the contrast level on a scan will make stress marks more obvious in the resulting image than they are in real life. I didn't see this particular copy or any of the MC books in person, but after scanning hundreds of my own raw books I've noticed that there are all sorts of defects that show up to a greater or lesser degree than they do when viewing the book person.

[Ze-man]

West and I had a friendly PM exchange regarding this collection. There are many explanations as to why the books were graded what they were.

 

Thinking thru the situation and also hearing West's reasoning, I don't think that the $40K paid had any bearing at all on the "gift" grades (imho) that Mound City received.

Brent you simply must expound on your exchange with West about the 'many explanations as to why the books were graded what they were'.

I do believe in the integrity of CGC's grading but I must admit my two lousy MC books were indeed 'lousy' in appearance. Normally, I am proud of my pedigrees

and like to show them off but the MC books are embarassing to display. They do not have eye appeal.

 

I agree, or are we all supposed to PM West and have friendly conversations?

 

I am more curious then anything as I dont own any, nor even seen any Mound books in person but have heard enough first hand reports to wonder why so many people felt the collection was graded soft.

 

Maybe we should all just PM Brent!

[AtlasFan]

The term "gift grade" is not meant to be an accusation that there was something off color going on. It just means that for some reason (usually luck of the draw) the book was graded a bit loose.

 

There are many reasons for that to happen and I don't believe for one second that dishonesty or bribery is one of them.

 

 

The term "loose" also keeps me up at night too.

 

There is no reason Book A should be graded a 9.2 on Tuesdays and a 8.5 on Thursdays...if the same impartial and scientific methods are used to grade a book, it should come out the same evey time...

 

Arent "gift grade" and "loose" really just code words for "special treatment"?

 

 

We have to agree that CGC graders are just normal people and as normal people we all make mistakes or lose our objectivity from time to time, whether we care to admit it or not.

 

That's all I believe it is.

 

 

Well, if that's really the case and it happens that often, then I believe its called... incompetence.