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CGC grading "soft" lately?

Started by clarkkentdds,

71 posts in this topic

jimjum12

jimjum12

Posted
Posted
The term "gift grade" is not meant to be an accusation that there was something off color going on. It just means that for some reason (usually luck of the draw) the book was graded a bit loose.

 

There are many reasons for that to happen and I don't believe for one second that dishonesty or bribery is one of them.

 

 

The term "loose" also keeps me up at night too.

 

There is no reason Book A should be graded a 9.2 on Tuesdays and a 8.5 on Thursdays...if the same impartial and scientific methods are used to grade a book, it should come out the same evey time...

 

Arent "gift grade" and "loose" really just code words for "special treatment"?

 

 

We have to agree that CGC graders are just normal people and as normal people we all make mistakes or lose our objectivity from time to time, whether we care to admit it or not.

 

That's all I believe it is.

 

 

Well, if that's really the case and it happens that often, then I believe its called... :gossip:incompetence.

 

(shrug) ....we can always go back to buying raw off eBay :baiting: ...the most overgraded CGC book is still going to be 2 full grades closer to the truth than it's closest eBay counterpart. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

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JohnT

JohnT

Posted
Posted
West and I had a friendly PM exchange regarding this collection. There are many explanations as to why the books were graded what they were.

 

Thinking thru the situation and also hearing West's reasoning, I don't think that the $40K paid had any bearing at all on the "gift" grades (imho) that Mound City received.

 

 

That's a quick 180...what were the reasons, if I might ask?

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JohnT

JohnT

Posted
Posted
that said, we can't see the inside of the book or the covers...that often times is a big part of the grade...sometimes folks try to compare a 9.4 to a 9.2 and they think the 9.2 "looks" better than the 9.4, when in reality there might be defects not visible (like a page tear, etc) and therefore, comparing the 2 just from the cover is not a "fair" comparision.... there are a myriad of other reasons, of course, but unless one goes from start to finish, I don't see how anyone can use the term "loose" or gift, without knowing all the facts (shrug)

 

That would explain why a book grades lower than expected, but not why a book grades higher than it should given visible defects.

 

I agree that 9.2 seems soft for the book in question. I'd think those rather large staple stresses would immediately limit the book to 8.0. And then there's the corners...

 

 

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
The term "gift grade" is not meant to be an accusation that there was something off color going on. It just means that for some reason (usually luck of the draw) the book was graded a bit loose.

 

There are many reasons for that to happen and I don't believe for one second that dishonesty or bribery is one of them.

 

 

The term "loose" also keeps me up at night too.

 

There is no reason Book A should be graded a 9.2 on Tuesdays and a 8.5 on Thursdays...if the same impartial and scientific methods are used to grade a book, it should come out the same evey time...

 

Arent "gift grade" and "loose" really just code words for "special treatment"?

 

 

We have to agree that CGC graders are just normal people and as normal people we all make mistakes or lose our objectivity from time to time, whether we care to admit it or not.

 

That's all I believe it is.

 

 

Well, if that's really the case and it happens that often, then I believe its called... :gossip:incompetence.

 

I guess that would depend on what percentage of books are graded accurately.

 

If they've graded well over 1MIL books (and they have) even a 98% accuracy is not a bad track record. I don't think it's fair to call them incompetent.

 

It's not like every book is overgraded or undergraded. It's just a small fraction of books.

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AtlasFan

AtlasFan

Posted
Posted
The term "gift grade" is not meant to be an accusation that there was something off color going on. It just means that for some reason (usually luck of the draw) the book was graded a bit loose.

 

There are many reasons for that to happen and I don't believe for one second that dishonesty or bribery is one of them.

 

 

The term "loose" also keeps me up at night too.

 

There is no reason Book A should be graded a 9.2 on Tuesdays and a 8.5 on Thursdays...if the same impartial and scientific methods are used to grade a book, it should come out the same evey time...

 

Arent "gift grade" and "loose" really just code words for "special treatment"?

 

 

We have to agree that CGC graders are just normal people and as normal people we all make mistakes or lose our objectivity from time to time, whether we care to admit it or not.

 

That's all I believe it is.

 

 

Well, if that's really the case and it happens that often, then I believe its called... :gossip:incompetence.

 

(shrug) ....we can always go back to buying raw off eBay :baiting: ...the most overgraded CGC book is still going to be 2 full grades closer to the truth than it's closest eBay counterpart. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

Or Metro...

 

Good point Jimbo!

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Bomber-Bob

Bomber-Bob

Posted
Posted
West and I had a friendly PM exchange regarding this collection. There are many explanations as to why the books were graded what they were.

 

Thinking thru the situation and also hearing West's reasoning, I don't think that the $40K paid had any bearing at all on the "gift" grades (imho) that Mound City received.

Brent you simply must expound on your exchange with West about the 'many explanations as to why the books were graded what they were'.

I do believe in the integrity of CGC's grading but I must admit my two lousy MC books were indeed 'lousy' in appearance. Normally, I am proud of my pedigrees

and like to show them off but the MC books are embarassing to display. They do not have eye appeal.

 

I agree, or are we all supposed to PM West and have friendly conversations?

 

I am more curious then anything as I dont own any, nor even seen any Mound books in person but have heard enough first hand reports to wonder why so many people felt the collection was graded soft.

 

Maybe we should all just PM Brent! :P

 

C'mon Brent, talk to us. 'There are many explanations as to why the books were graded what they were' cannot be the end of the conversation. Enquiring Minds want to know.

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Blind Owl

Blind Owl

Posted
Posted

Yes..but (as mentioned) if the cover is so bad, that it warrants nothing higher than an 8.0 grade...it doesn't matter how pristine the rest of the book is (it's interior). What we can see (easily) without seeing the interior is that it is no better than an 8.0. Then how could a book then become 9.0 or 9.2?????????? Hmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

If the book looks 9.4 on the exterior (the cover)...but has defects such as Gator mentioned (on the interior) and the book receives a grade of 9.0, then that's OK...

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G.A.tor

G.A.tor

Posted
Posted
Yes..but (as mentioned) if the cover is so bad, that it warrants nothing higher than an 8.0 grade...it doesn't matter how pristine the rest of the book is (it's interior). What we can see (easily) without seeing the interior is that it is no better than an 8.0. Then how could a book then become 9.0 or 9.2?????????? Hmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

If the book looks 9.4 on the exterior (the cover)...but has defects such as Gator mentioned (on the interior) and the book receives a grade of 9.0, then that's OK...

I hear what you are saying, but the grade of the book should encompass the entire book... not just the cover...

 

say the cover is a 8.0 but the interior is perfect 10.0... then the book averages to a 9.0 :baiting:

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HD

HD

Posted
Posted
The term "gift grade" is not meant to be an accusation that there was something off color going on. It just means that for some reason (usually luck of the draw) the book was graded a bit loose.

 

There are many reasons for that to happen and I don't believe for one second that dishonesty or bribery is one of them.

 

 

The term "loose" also keeps me up at night too.

 

There is no reason Book A should be graded a 9.2 on Tuesdays and a 8.5 on Thursdays...if the same impartial and scientific methods are used to grade a book, it should come out the same evey time...

 

Arent "gift grade" and "loose" really just code words for "special treatment"?

 

 

We have to agree that CGC graders are just normal people and as normal people we all make mistakes or lose our objectivity from time to time, whether we care to admit it or not.

 

That's all I believe it is.

 

 

Well, if that's really the case and it happens that often, then I believe its called... :gossip:incompetence.

 

(shrug) ....we can always go back to buying raw off eBay :baiting: ...the most overgraded CGC book is still going to be 2 full grades closer to the truth than it's closest eBay counterpart. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

Or Metro...

 

Good point Jimbo!

I've never purchased anything from Metropolis. Are they really that bad or are you kidding someone who works there? (I can't imagine much of anyone being as bad--or perhaps I should say clueless--as eBay.)

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JohnT

JohnT

Posted
Posted
Yes..but (as mentioned) if the cover is so bad, that it warrants nothing higher than an 8.0 grade...it doesn't matter how pristine the rest of the book is (it's interior). What we can see (easily) without seeing the interior is that it is no better than an 8.0. Then how could a book then become 9.0 or 9.2?????????? Hmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

If the book looks 9.4 on the exterior (the cover)...but has defects such as Gator mentioned (on the interior) and the book receives a grade of 9.0, then that's OK...

I hear what you are saying, but the grade of the book should encompass the entire book... not just the cover...

 

say the cover is a 8.0 but the interior is perfect 10.0... then the book averages to a 9.0 :baiting:

 

I really don't think it works that way.

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Ze-man

Ze-man

Posted
Posted
Yes..but (as mentioned) if the cover is so bad, that it warrants nothing higher than an 8.0 grade...it doesn't matter how pristine the rest of the book is (it's interior). What we can see (easily) without seeing the interior is that it is no better than an 8.0. Then how could a book then become 9.0 or 9.2?????????? Hmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

If the book looks 9.4 on the exterior (the cover)...but has defects such as Gator mentioned (on the interior) and the book receives a grade of 9.0, then that's OK...

I hear what you are saying, but the grade of the book should encompass the entire book... not just the cover...

 

say the cover is a 8.0 but the interior is perfect 10.0... then the book averages to a 9.0 :baiting:

 

So what percentage do you place on the cover vs interior when arriving at the overall grade? To most it is almost always cover centric unless interior PQ is very bad, or other unseen physical interior defects.

 

I would argue that an 8.0 cover around a 10.0 interior would not get a 9.0

 

Too many 8.0 type cover flaws to overlook. :baiting:

 

That said I do agree with you, the WHOLE book should be taken into account when grading, just not to the degree you laid out.

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Yannis

Yannis

Posted
Posted

I had a conversation recently with another collector who believe that CGC (or certain people at cgc) would give a gift grade to a personal friend submitting books. If this is true or not I am not to say but I found the thread question to be untrue in my case. When it came to some books I submitted recently the were crushed to my surprise. Even when I showed them to some major dealers (don't want to name them in public) they agreed that the grades given were unfair.

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Yannis

Yannis

Posted
Posted

I had a conversation recently with another collector who believe that CGC (or certain people at cgc) would give a gift grade to a personal friend submitting books. If this is true or not I am not to say but I found the thread question to be untrue in my case. When it came to some books I submitted recently the were crushed to my surprise. Even when I showed them to some major dealers (don't want to name them in public) they agreed that the grades given were unfair.

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Yannis

Yannis

Posted
Posted

I had a conversation recently with another collector who believe that CGC (or certain people at cgc) would give a gift grade to a personal friend submitting books. If this is true or not I am not to say but I found the thread question to be untrue in my case. When it came to some books I submitted recently the were crushed to my surprise. Even when I showed them to some major dealers (don't want to name them in public) they agreed that the grades given were unfair.

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Yannis

Yannis

Posted
Posted

I had a conversation recently with another collector who believe that CGC (or certain people at cgc) would give a gift grade to a personal friend submitting books. If this is true or not I am not to say but I found the thread question to be untrue in my case. When it came to some books I submitted recently the were crushed to my surprise. Even when I showed them to some major dealers (don't want to name them in public) they agreed that the grades given were unfair.

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Yannis

Yannis

Posted
Posted

I had a conversation recently with another collector who believe that CGC (or certain people at cgc) would give a gift grade to a personal friend submitting books. If this is true or not I am not to say but I found the thread question to be untrue in my case. When it came to some books I submitted recently the were crushed to my surprise. Even when I showed them to some major dealers (don't want to name them in public) they agreed that the grades given were unfair.

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Yannis

Yannis

Posted
Posted

I had a conversation recently with another collector who believe that CGC (or certain people at cgc) would give a gift grade to a personal friend submitting books. If this is true or not I am not to say but I found the thread question to be untrue in my case. When it came to some books I submitted recently the were crushed to my surprise. Even when I showed them to some major dealers (don't want to name them in public) they agreed that the grades given were unfair.

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Yannis

Yannis

Posted
Posted

I had a conversation recently with another collector who believe that CGC (or certain people at cgc) would give a gift grade to a personal friend submitting books. If this is true or not I am not to say but I found the thread question to be untrue in my case. When it came to some books I submitted recently the were crushed to my surprise. Even when I showed them to some major dealers (don't want to name them in public) they agreed that the grades given were unfair.

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