I dropped my soap in GrahamCrackers shower

[rob_react]

 

That stinks. Did you contact him to see if he would fix the problem?

 

That's what I would have done first.

 

Everybody screws up once in a while.

 

 

Yeah, no need to make a thread about it. The grade is .5 off and he missed the trim. It happens. Contact him and see if you can get your money back.

 

If the book was color touched with pieces added and graded VG, then maybe we would need to get the pitchforks out.

[comicparadox]

Unfortunate situation; two thoughts come to mind. One, the seller likely didn't know the book had been trimmed. Large volume dealers like Graham Crackers move hundreds of books a week. Second, if it was an eBay purchase, it's not likely that you paid VF guide for the book.

 

If neither the buyer nor the original seller were able to ascertain whether the book had been trimmed, it was probably a well-done travesty rather than a poorly-done abomination. Hence, it was probably a nice-looking book that filled a space in the buyer's collection, likely at a reasonable price.

 

Two years after the fact, I'm not sure the original seller has an obligation to the buyer. There should be a reasonable statute of limitations, and I'd think two to four weeks from receipt should be sufficient.

 

That's just one person's opinion, and I am sorry to learn that the book was trimmed.

[Bomber-Bob]

 

Two years after the fact, I'm not sure the original seller has an obligation to the buyer. There should be a reasonable statute of limitations, and I'd think two to four weeks from receipt should be sufficient.

 

 

I have to question the 2 - 4 week comment.

If he got the book and noticed a problem immediately maybe 2 - 4 weeks is good.

However, to get a third party grader involved takes a lot longer. Assuming the book was sent in to CGC with an Economy Tier, it would take a minimum of 2 - 3 months before he knows the result. This is also assuming he immediately sends it in to CGC. I have many books that I want to get to CGC but I wait for the right volume of similar tiers, I have the funds, etc. It takes a while.

I think, assuming store credit, 2 years is reasonable.

Just an opinion, this book was probably not worth getting slabbed. GCC is not cheap, you were probably better off buying an already slabbed copy.

[KingOfRulers]

Jaimie has always been super nice to me. I have bought a lot of books from them this past year, and you do have to be careful. They have so many books that it is nearly impossible to detect the trimming. Digging through their longboxes, I have found many books which I put back as I suspected them to be trimmed, but I put a lot of time going through their boxes. Really, that is the only way to avoid getting any trimmed books (from any dealer). You have to put a lot of time into examining every book you are interested in. I bet I spent 5-6 hours at Graham Crackers's booth when I was in Chicago. They would certainly never trim a book themselves--but some manage to slip in their inventory without them knowing.

[Flaming_Telepath]

That stinks. Did you contact him to see if he would fix the problem?

 

No refund because it was almost two years from the date of purchase when I received the book back from cgc and contacted GrahamCrackers .

 

Two things...

 

(1) Trimming is the hardest form of resto/destruction to detect and even CGC can't do so with 100% accuracy. I don't think any seller should be held to a higher standard than the industry's 'authority' and the occasional error should be accepted as understandable.

 

(2) With restoration of any description, I think any seller worth his salt should have an open-ended full refund policy in place. Errors will understandably occur and the seller should be happy to make those errors good. (thumbs u

[RedRaven]

 

(2) With restoration of any description, I think any seller worth his salt should have an open-ended full refund policy in place. Errors will understandably occur and the seller should be happy to make those errors good. (thumbs u

 

Man that's just asking to get cornholed IMO.

[Flaming_Telepath]

 

(2) With restoration of any description, I think any seller worth his salt should have an open-ended full refund policy in place. Errors will understandably occur and the seller should be happy to make those errors good. (thumbs u

 

Man that's just asking to get cornholed IMO.

 

It might happen, but so what?

 

The occasional shafting is probably worth it for the reputation you earn from all of your returning customers. (thumbs u

 

 

 

PS Bob Storms does it and according to him, very rarely does somebody try it on.

[fastballspecial]

I have bought at least 100 books from Graham Crackers online store only. I have had one problem, and the owner went ouf of his way to fix it. I did have to call a few times though. That being said the earliest was mid bronze. 2 years is a bit much I think as well. Its impossible to catch all that stuff.

[Primetime]

Let's face it, trimming is the hardest resto to detect. I don't think GCC is deliberately selling restored comics.

Ask for some store credit, the owner is Jamie and he is a reasonable man.

(thumbs u

[Spider-Variant]

Wow, my LCS doesn't even have a public restroom, and there you go all lathering up in their shower.

 

 

[Marvelfangirl]

purchased on ebay as VF

(original GrahamCrackers scan)

 

 

 

back from cgc

 

Dude,that sucks

[c-mack]

i was in that same boat on a 7.5 ASM 31..=( sorry dude

[Bomber-Bob]

 

(2) With restoration of any description, I think any seller worth his salt should have an open-ended full refund policy in place. Errors will understandably occur and the seller should be happy to make those errors good. (thumbs u

 

Man that's just asking to get cornholed IMO.

 

It might happen, but so what?

 

The occasional shafting is probably worth it for the reputation you earn from all of your returning customers. (thumbs u

 

 

 

PS Bob Storms does it and according to him, very rarely does somebody try it on.

 

Bob Storms indeed has an open ended full refund policy. I recently contacted him about a book that I bought many years ago from him that Matt Nelson said had the staples replaced. He took it back, no problem. Knowing you can buy from Bob

with no reservations means a lot. It should be applauded.

[joeypost]

Can't be a lot of money tied up in this book. I would think Jamie would work something out.

 

The part about not being much money is true. I sent the following e-mail to Jamie. It was read a week ago and no reply.

 

Hey Jamie, I have a problem with a book I purchased from grahamcrackers on ebay. You do not know me and I only know you from the cgc message board. The book I purchased was a FF # 49 VF. Just back from cgc restored, top edge trimmed. I spoke with Brian(grahamcrackers ebay sales) and returned the book for a refund. He returned the book back to me and said because it had been almost 2 years since date of purchase there would be no refund. I am contacting you since your name is on the door to see if you will help me. The book has a very distinctive mark in pen, capital letter N inside the big yellow F of Fantastic. The book was in your online store for several months and then moved to ebay auction where I won it. I am enclosing the paypal payment information along with the original grahamcrackers scan and a scan of the cgc book. Thank you, David

 

I would call. You will get better results.

[AtlasFan]

I never quite understood why trimming is considered "restoration" as it "takes away" from a book rather than adding something to it (like color touch)...should'nt trimming be considered qualified and in the same league as a detatched centerfold, married cover, or Marvel Value Stamp missing?

 

Just a thought...

[dopy02]

Can't be a lot of money tied up in this book. I would think Jamie would work something out.

 

The part about not being much money is true. I sent the following e-mail to Jamie. It was read a week ago and no reply.

 

Hey Jamie, I have a problem with a book I purchased from grahamcrackers on ebay. You do not know me and I only know you from the cgc message board. The book I purchased was a FF # 49 VF. Just back from cgc restored, top edge trimmed. I spoke with Brian(grahamcrackers ebay sales) and returned the book for a refund. He returned the book back to me and said because it had been almost 2 years since date of purchase there would be no refund. I am contacting you since your name is on the door to see if you will help me. The book has a very distinctive mark in pen, capital letter N inside the big yellow F of Fantastic. The book was in your online store for several months and then moved to ebay auction where I won it. I am enclosing the paypal payment information along with the original grahamcrackers scan and a scan of the cgc book. Thank you, David

 

I would call. You will get better results.

 

I called and spoke with Brian(ebay sales). I then called and left Jamie a message at the naperville store. No call back.

[Mr 9.8]

I never quite understood why trimming is considered "restoration" as it "takes away" from a book rather than adding something to it (like color touch)...should'nt trimming be considered qualified and in the same league as a detatched centerfold, married cover, or Marvel Value Stamp missing?

 

Just a thought...

[Rich_Henn]

Well, since someone pointed me in the direction of this thread, I just can't take this anymore.

 

A few months back, I had posted that I found ANOTHER key book in my collection that I suspected was trimmed. "Found" is probably the wrong word. It's a book that's been in my collection for about 7 or 8 years.

 

That book was HOUSE OF SECRETS 92.

 

The reason why I was so upset at the time of that post, was it wasn't that I was deliberately seeking out THAT book in my collection so much, as I wanted to pull some books for Bernie Wrightson and Len Wein to sign for signature series at the upcoming Baltimore show.

 

And I pulled the book, which I honestly hadn't looked at or pulled from the box in many years---and since the time I purchased that book, my eye has gotten much better in detecting certain restoration. Specifically, TRIM.

Mostly because of the horrible experience I had in purchasing major key books at top prices only to find out after grading that they were trimmed.

 

I used to shop quite extensively at a shop in Reisterstown MD. I bought a lot of my books there, mostly modern, but I would also buy some key books if I felt the price was right.

 

Specifically, I had purchased books like Marvel Team Up 1, Amaz. SM 100, HoS 92, Avengers 4, ASM 50---pretty big keys. Books that I wanted both for my personal collection and long term investments. In fact, I remember the conversation I'd had with my wife when debating buying the Avengers #4, of which the shop retailer was asking $1175 during one of his big sales.

My wife had just given birth to our first daughter, and we discussed the book as being something we would invest long term to put toward her college or something like that. And to the store owners credit, at the time I remember him telling me "Are you sure you want to spend that much money? You just had a kid, you should be saving your money."

 

But the book was really nice looking, and I'd had my eye on some of his other keys.

 

Amaz. SM 50, HoS 92, etc.

I can't remember which I bought first, but I do remember within two weeks I picked up the ASM 50 and the Avengers 4.

 

I was pretty excited, these were books that I'd wanted for some time. And they both looked nice, the nicest I'd ever seen.

And I remember also as he was showing me the books, he'd mentioned that he got them from Jamie Graham in a recent deal.

 

So when the ASM 50, Avengers 4 (and there was a third book that I can't remember which at the time)...all three books came back TRIMMED.

And I couldn't believe it.

I called Steve Borock, convinced there was some sort of mistake.

And Steve was very cool about it, very informative and also very sympathetic because (I think) he sees this a lot where people get stiffed like this.

And Steve told me "Rich, I looked those books over twice from top to bottom...I'm really sorry man. Can you get your money back?"

 

I wasn't sure. I mean, I thought I probably could with no problem. I'd been shopping with this guy for some time.

But I did something else first.

I cracked that Avengers 4 out and brought it to the Baltimore show and presented it to Jamie Graham. And Jamie looked at that book like a parent recognizes a long lost child.

He hadn't seen that book in some time...I mean, I didn't send the books off to CGC right away either, I think I had them for 6 months or so prior to sending them in, and then 2 months or so before getting them back. Not sure how long the retailer had them before selling them to me.

But Jamie's eye went RIGHT to that trim and pointed out "Yeah., see...you can spot that trim right here."

And then offered to maybe trade it out to me for one of his overpriced CGC books on the wall. He asked me where I got the book, I told him.

And he said to me (and I quote) "Yeah, thats the problem with that guy. He can't spot restoration. Not like some of us other dealers."

 

I've also heard from other people that don't shop there anymore as well that perhaps he turns a blind eye to it, but that's something else.

 

So I went to this guy up in Reisterstown and presented him with the Avengers, told him what his buddy Jamie Graham had said to me, and that he might want to really reconsider how he does business with him because he CLEARLY knows that YOU can't spot restortation and to me...he's taking advantage of that.

 

So I told him lookit...this book was supposed to be a long term investment for me, and now it's worthless. And that $1175 was a LOT of money for me to spending, and I'd like to know about getting my money back.

 

Well, he tells me that Jamie Graham is coming to town that weekend, and he'd discuss it with him.

I don't know what transpired in that conversation, but it was a month later before he finally told me, "Jamie says send it back to him and he'll refund you your money."

 

NOW...what SHOULD have happened....he should have given me my money back, not make me chase down Jamie Graham. He sold me the book, he should have owned responsibility to it.

And to wrap all this up, 2 months later Jamie DID make good on it.

I told him I didn't want grading fees or anything else, just what I paid for the book.

And I did get my money back.

 

And then a few months later I saw those two dealing books together again, and I thought okay...so none of this matters to either of them, and I won't be buying from either of these guys ever again.

I hear similar stories from other people who "USED" to shop with both retailers and for that reason alone, I can only imagine how much in store business these guys have lost from long term customers that don't shop with them anymore.

It's a small industry and word gets around.

 

To add insult to injury, the Reisterstown retailer had said to me that (after the fact, BTW( he suspected that there were other books in that collection he'd purchased from Jamie that may have been trimmed.

And I asked him "Really? Like what?"

And he gives me this snarky kind of look and says, "Oh...a few."

 

And I can't help but wonder if his mind went to that HoS 92 that I'd purchased from him as well, wondering when/if I may ever discover that book was trimmed too.

 

It never crossed my mind back then, for whatever reason, to go back and check all the other keys in my collection that I'd purchased from him over the years...but then 3 months ago I pull out that HoS 92 and my head explodes.

 

And then in NYC comicon, I had my ASM 100 graded on site, recently signed by Stan and Romita and it came back 7.5 trimmed.

It was all I could do to keep from going over to Jamie Grahams booth and smashing it over his head.

 

But it's like ---okay PROVE IT. PROVE you bought that book from so and so. Prove that book originated from his booth.

Or his shop.

And the reality is, you can't. These are all cash in had sales at shows, unless you're paying credit card, and when I buy my book in a shop, the receipt only says "Comic Book, X $"

No title. No issue number.

 

But I know where it came from.

And it's burn me once shame on you. Burn me twice...I'm telling the whole frackin' community you're a screw.

 

I know there's a lot of other guys out there with similar stories. And I know that there's probably not so many that pop up on the boards like this to share those stories because at the end of the day...they still might not know that they're sitting on dead books. Until, like the origins of this thread, a few years go buy after purchase and they decide to get their book graded.

 

And then this happens.

 

I had pretty much put that whole bad incident behind me until I started to discover that even more comics in my collection are coming back with trim, and it not only leaves a bad taste in your mouth, you feel taken advantage of.

 

Make no mistake Jamie Graham can spot trim, color touch, whatever you want to call your favorite restoration.

If he discloses that or not, I couldn't say.

 

BUT I will say that he DID refund me my $1175 for a book that indirectly came from him, which to be 100% honest, he really had no responsibility to me on that book.

 

He could have said, "I didn't sell you that book, go see your boy in Reisterstown."

 

I say, to the person that started this thread, call Jamie Graham every day, email him every day, until you get some response.

And if you don't get any headway, if your messages continue to be unreturned (I know mine were never returned until I got his personal email---he knew that I was not going to go away).

 

And just don't buy from him ever again. And tell anyone else you know to NOT buy from him either, for those very reasons.

And if you ever suspect that a book you purchase from a dealer may have restoration, ASK that dealer.

 

And if the guy says he doesn't know, then ask him if he'll refund your money on it if it comes back graded.

If a dealer sells you a high grade key book, ask him if he'll put in writing that the book doesn't, to the best of his knowledge, have any restoration.

 

Someone has to hold these guys accountable. Word of mouth travels fast, and with the advent of CGC, it's making it harder for these guys to get away with it. I can't tell you how many people I've spoken to that will not buy raw books on Ebay anymore for just that very reason.

 

So there you have it...buyer beware is the lesson learned here.

If you suspect trim, it probably has trim.

If any of those 3 sides look too clean, odds are its trimmed. The worn spine is a dead giveaway.

Doesn't make sense that the other 3 sides would be clean as a whistle and the spine would have wear.

 

I'm sure I'm going to get guys jumping all over my mess about what I've just posted here, but as was in the last thread I started about my HoS 92, it was mostly dealers giving me mess.

 

Be warry, be SMART when you shop.

And if you're spending a lot of money on a book like an Avengers 4 or an FF 48 or 49 or something, get that dealer to back up for you in some way that he'll own up to a refund if that book comes back purple.

If he WONT...then walk away.

[Flaming_Telepath]

I never quite understood why trimming is considered "restoration" as it "takes away" from a book rather than adding something to it (like color touch)...should'nt trimming be considered qualified and in the same league as a detatched centerfold, married cover, or Marvel Value Stamp missing?

 

Just a thought...

 

CGC do not consider trimming to be restoration, but rather 'destruction'. (thumbs u

[Mr 9.8]

That's why I buy copper/modern books. Sure they will NEVER EVER be worth as much as there Golden/Silver/Bronze cousins, but at least I know the books are less likely to have been destroyed.