General question

[blazingbob]

So basically you are holding out with the knowledge that another copy will show up and it will be cheaper.

 

Sounds like a Death spiral to me because unless the retailer keeps cutting his price you don't buy it.

 

At what point does the cycle end? When there's no more books offered or retailers are selling it at cost? Oh wait, I've forgotten my one previous post. Dealers are not supposed to make money in this business.

[Foolkiller]

Frankly when someone uses GPA as a primary pricing tool I only see what I call a Death spiral of pricing.

 

I've heard it before. A lot of people don't want to pay over GPA so they pay a little bit under. Bar gets set lower and lower with each sale. Unless an auction or ebay sale notches it up a bit we continue lower.

 

Not exactly what I call a strong long term selling market.

 

I think this depends on the book. If I had a white page, perfectly centered book, I'd price it well above GPA. If I had a key book or pre 1965 Marvel or 50s DC, would I use GPA -- NOPE.

 

But -- if you're talking about FF 64 -- then I think GPA may be a good indicator. It all depends.

[blazingbob]

Ok, I agree with you on this.

 

Let me play devil's advocate on this one that the retailer should be the one doing all the work.

 

How does the buyer know when someone is using GPA and when they are not?

 

 

 

[skypinkblu]

Greg, I absolutely know that having Highgradecomics.com as my name is going to turn somebody away. Frankly I like the niche market, yes it limits some sales but it also makes you stand out a bit. No offense to the other dealers reading this but I didn't want to be just like everybody else. And frankly Mile High was not who I was trying to be. I always was a high grade collector, I knew the market and that's my speciality. At the time I started my company there wasn't too many people focused on just that market. Now it seems everybody wants to be in this part of the market. Frankly I would think that smart buyers would want to shop for lower grade on my website because it's not a market I want to be in.

 

Exactly, I LOVED your "lowgrade boxes" at shows, because YOUR low grade books are better than I'd ever expect. I just have trouble FINDING them on the site;) (or at shows lately;)

 

[Foolkiller]

They don't -- but you have to assume that the buyer does know about GPA. And I would say you can't worry about that -- you have to price the book how you price the book.

 

I also think to move inventory, it's better to just start below Overstreet on mid-grade and below, sometimes even VFs. Especially in your case. Look, it's inventory that sits anyway and not part of your core target. You probably factor it as a very low percentage in collections you buy when you get it.

 

To me, it's an advertising aspect too -- at www.highgradecomics.com we believe in trying to keep pace with current market trends -- which means many of our low, mid and mid-high grade books are priced below Overstreet prices. This means accurate, fair pricing for the customer every day! We also are more than open to negotiating package deals for this material as well.

 

Or something like that.

[fantastic_four]

Sounds like a Death spiral to me because unless the retailer keeps cutting his price you don't buy it.

 

It's only a death spiral if supply exceeds demand. If that's the case, it doesn't matter whether it's comics or Longaberger baskets, you have to drop prices to sell. If supply and demand are roughly in sync, you shouldn't have to cut prices, somebody'll buy it eventually.

 

Gauging supply seems really tough on a lot of post-1965 titles, that's what would frustrate me if I sold much, the learning curve for supply across so many titles seems like a huge challenge.

[blazingbob]

Thank you sir.

 

I'll be expecting a bill in the mail for "advertising services"

[oakman29]

I'm sure some know my thoughts on GPA/FMV.

 

Here's some additional issues I've had with GPA negotiations I've experienced.

 

1). Person wants to use 12 month moving average.

 

2). Person wants to use last price sale

 

3). Unless it's priced below GPA they don't buy it.

 

4). GPA can change daily.

 

5). For business reasons not everyone reports to GPA.

 

6). Some books are still a little light as far as GPA sales go.

 

Fair Market value - Who determines that? Should I pick the lowest priced site as a reference or the highest? Again, I've had sellers of books quote Comiclink auction prices to me all the time. Doesn't matter that it's price was so far in the stratosphere I almost have to assume that it's going to be PRESSED (Disclaimer - No pressing responses allowed).

 

I don't price to GPA/FMV?

Let's use two books I just listed as an example

AS #5 CGC 9.2 - Last GPA sale $5500 2007 - my asking price $5500. I don't see many 9.2's up for sale right now. My sales data on 9.2 is old.

AS #6 CGC 9.4 - Last GPA sale $13K June 2009 - my asking price $10,500 which is more in line with the 12 month moving average but frankly that's what I've priced the last 3 in 2009 at. Frankly I have more 9.4 sales of this issue than GPA.

 

So why aren't "it's priced at GPA" guys jumping all over the AS #6 9.4?

 

I do a lot of work on pricing but frankly that's the point of allowing offers on books.

 

I understand your point that the retailer should do the work but there are a lot of different type of "comic shoppers" out there. Finding the "middle ground" is not easy.

 

Bob you are one of the best and fairest dealers out there.I don't sell books so I don't go through what you do with buyers,but in my opinion you price your books the way you want.If someone wants the book for your price they will buy it,I have always gotten a great book at a great price not once looking at GPA.By the way I am looking for a Hulk #1 to purchase at the SDCC,PM me if you can.And of course I will always come to you first for my big ticket purchases

[fantastic_four]

How does the buyer know when someone is using GPA and when they are not?

 

I can VERY often tell this--the seller will consistently be selling relative to GPA prices, either right at them or at some consistent percentage above or below them, usually 10%-20%.

[blazingbob]

I understand that dropping prices to move stuff is how business works.

 

But the mainstream buying model is "I still want a deal" so I'm starting to wonder if the "starting" price matters.

[blazingbob]

How do you know that? I guess you are assuming that unless the Seller subscribes to GPA he doesn't know how to price or value something.

 

What if the book is priced right at GPA and it doesn't sell?

 

Did the seller price it wrong?

 

Use my AS #6 9.4 as an example

$13K or $10,500

 

 

[arexcrooke]

How do you know that? I guess you are assuming that unless the Seller subscribes to GPA he doesn't know how to price or value something.

 

What if the book is priced right at GPA and it doesn't sell?

 

Did the seller price it wrong?

 

Use my AS #6 9.4 as an example

$13K or $10,500

 

On that book Bob I am not sure if it is the best example. There might be a lot of people who want the book, think it is priced fairly, but $10,500 might as well be a $105,000.

 

When you get into those price points then it takes not only a fair price, but also a willing buyer who has the money to purchase it.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

I understand that dropping prices to move stuff is how business works.

 

But the mainstream buying model is "I still want a deal" so I'm starting to wonder if the "starting" price matters.

 

It does to the people who don't like to haggle, so the question is which group of people is larger--the ones who get scared off by a higher-than-market starting price because they hate haggling, or the ones who get scared off by not getting cut a deal regardless of what the starting price is?

 

I don't know which group is larger...I know I hate haggling so I hope I'm in the majority, but maybe I'm not.

[blazingbob]

Ah, and that is a concern because frankly I've heard from both camps in this thread. And since I strongly believe that this forum is a smaller representation of the big picture you see where I'm looking for a solution for both.

[blazingbob]

Ok

 

Common as dirt

Wolverine #1 CGC 9.8

GPA changes daily on this book but the last time I saw them on ebay the average asking price was higher than $200

GPA is averaging $160 right now.

 

My price $200

 

I sell them for $160-185 out of my ebay store.

 

 

 

 

 

[ckp1680]

How do you know that? I guess you are assuming that unless the Seller subscribes to GPA he doesn't know how to price or value something.

 

What if the book is priced right at GPA and it doesn't sell?

 

Did the seller price it wrong?

 

Use my AS #6 9.4 as an example

$13K or $10,500

 

Here is the way I would break it down if I were looking for this book in a 9.4

 

The avg of $10,351 in the GPA is a result of one sale of the book for $13,001 throwing the numbers off a little. The rest of the sales are between $5,000 and $8,625. There have been 3 on comiclink recently that have sold for $6,500, $7,300, $7,505. So if I do my homework on this book I can find 13 sales, the highest other than the $13,001 is $8,625. My thinking would be that I most likely will have to come up with $7,500. When I see $10,500 I automatically think that is out of my price range.

[drewincanada]

Bob, I may be in the minority, but when I'm assessing FMV for a book, I look at long-term price trends rather than the GPA 12-month average or last GPA sale.

 

I'll look at both GPA and CLink sales, determine whether the book is trending upward or downward, and plot out where the price should be now based on those trends.

 

When I'm doing my trending, I'll throw out the extreme anomalies (the CLink stratospheric "upgradable" sales).

 

It's tricky when there haven't been many sales in a particular grade, but not impossible. If that's the case, I'll look at price trending for other grades of the same issue where there have been more sales.

 

Most of the time, I can plot out pricing trends for 3-4 different grades of a book and quickly determine where the price should be today on the book/grade I'm bidding on.

 

I'll also make adjustments to the price (up or down) based on PQ, cover alignment, cover markings (date stamps) and the book's overall appearance (e.g. is it a soft 9.2?).

 

Based on this info, my estimation of FMV (and the price I'd be willing to pay) is often higher than the 12-month GPA average or the last recorded sale.

 

I'm sure there are other methodologies or formulae that collectors use to determine FMV, but mine works for me. Other than the subjectivity of the "overall appearance" factor, there's a consistency/predictability to it.

 

I've bid on your books in the past, and in some cases your listed price was exactly in line with my estimation of the book's value. In a few cases, your price was considerably less than I expected. In other cases, I thought your listing price was very high, but we were able to negotiate a price we both were happy with. And in some cases, I thought your price was double what I thought the book was worth, and I didn't bid because I knew we wouldn't be able to find a mutually agreeable price and I didn't want to waste your time.

 

But that's no different than what goes on with both CLink's sale section and Pedigree's listings. Books on both sites are often listed for far more than they deserve to be (sometimes twice what they should be IMHO). Yet people still "bid" on the books on Josh and Doug's sites.

 

Perhaps this has already been discussed in this thread, and if so, I apologize for rehashing it, but I think the key difference is that the prices on the books in the "sale" section on CLink are set by the individual book owners (as are, I believe - correct me if I'm wrong - the consigned books on Doug's site), whereas I believe that you own most of the books listed on your site, and therefore you control the listing price for your books. In which case, I think that collectors expect you to know your bottom line and price the books accordingly.

 

There are two points here: collectors want consistency from a dealer. Consistency builds trust. If you* develop a consistent methodology to determine your estimation of FMV, and even if your* books are all consistently priced at 25% above that FMV, at least collectors know what to expect. (*NOTE: I mean this as a general "you" - not you specifically, Bob. There's no arrogance behind this.)

 

Better yet, since you own the books and know your bottom line, set your listed price closer to what you actually will accept for a book. You may miss out on the odd buyer who is willing to pay the inflated listing price, but I think you'll make up for it with the increased volume of sales.

 

(BTW, I do like your email "want list" service. It's very functional and very handy. And I think your scans are great - very realistic, and far better than most other sites. I mentioned in a previous post that I didn't like the "black" background on the site. Don't know what I was thinking. I know it's actually dark maroon. But it's still too dark.)

[fantastic_four]

Ah, and that is a concern because frankly I've heard from both camps in this thread. And since I strongly believe that this forum is a smaller representation of the big picture you see where I'm looking for a solution for both.

 

I'd think you'd price relative to both supply and demand:

 

• Low supply, high demand = price above GPA
• Low supply, low demand = price at GPA
• High supply, high demand = price at GPA
• High supply, low demand = price under GPA

So for your Spidey #6 CGC 9.4, that's low supply, high demand, so price above GPA. For your Wolverine #1 CGC 9.8, that's high supply, high demand, price it at GPA. Pricing a high supply book above market pisses off the people who both know what it usually goes for and know they can get another one anytime they want.

 

As for how I know when people are pricing via GPA--the only way I can tell for sure is when I know GPA is wrong for something, yet the seller still prices it relative to those misleading recent sales prices on GPA. Overall I don't care how they're getting their sense for current market value, whether it be from GPA or their own individual observations as to what stuff's selling for--GPA should just be a reflection of that exact same trend. So for someone knowledgeable about the market like you, do I think you're using GPA? I don't really know or care much, as long as your pricing is somehow relative to recent sales histories, which again, are usually reflected on GPA whether you looked there to find them or not.

 

Someone on EBay recently listed a bunch of Spideys in the 50-100 range in 9.4/9.6 condition, and I knew for sure he was using GPA, because he underpriced a few books that hadn't sold much over the last year and for some reason had some low recent sales results in GPA, so I managed to get a few tougher Spideys in 9.6 at the same relatively low prices that someone else managed to get them for within the last year.

[fantastic_four]

Here is the way I would break it down if I were looking for this book in a 9.4

 

The avg of $10,351 in the GPA is a result of one sale of the book for $13,001 throwing the numbers off a little. The rest of the sales are between $5,000 and $8,625. There have been 3 on comiclink recently that have sold for $6,500, $7,300, $7,505. So if I do my homework on this book I can find 13 sales, the highest other than the $13,001 is $8,625. My thinking would be that I most likely will have to come up with $7,500. When I see $10,500 I automatically think that is out of my price range.

 

If I were Bob, I'd still list this book above $7500. If it's a book with high demand and low supply, even the people who normally don't like to haggle will take a long look at this book if they're truly in the market for it as they know a crack at it doesn't come around more often than once every 3-6 months.

[blazingbob]

Pedigree has a 9.4 priced at $10K

 

Again, I put the same price $10,500 on it as I have on the last 3 copies I've sold.

 

For the fixed price buyer clearly this is too high.

 

For a person who has dealt with me before they know my prices are negotiable.

 

Frankly I would throw out $6500 and $7500 prices as being too low.

 

Somebody got a good deal on those books.

 

Unless I know the seller GPA does not factor in the "need to sell" something.