Pedigree Auction Sales and Relistings. Legit?

[NewWorldOrder]

Actually, we can guffaw all we like, but George has a very good idea.

 

Why can't we arrange a boycott of an auction, both consigning and buying? A lot of the heavy-hitters are here and a decent take-up would certainly send a message that, as consumers, we're not prepared to take this scamming any longer?

 

I personally have not bought a book from Pedigree, Heritage, Matt Nelson, CLink or Lauterbach for over four years now, simply because I disagree with their 'business model' (a phrase which gives it more validity than it's due, IMHO).

 

Why can't people hold off for one single month, for the overall benefit of the hobby as a whole?

 

Because People are ing sheep.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Actually, we can guffaw all we like, but George has a very good idea.

 

Why can't we arrange a boycott of an auction, both consigning and buying? A lot of the heavy-hitters are here and a decent take-up would certainly send a message that, as consumers, we're not prepared to take this scamming any longer?

 

I personally have not bought a book from Pedigree, Heritage, Matt Nelson, CLink or Lauterbach for over four years now, simply because I disagree with their 'business model' (a phrase which gives it more validity than it's due, IMHO).

 

Why can't people hold off for one single month, for the overall benefit of the hobby as a whole?

 

Because People are ing sheep.

 

Well, I think it's high time to herd the sheep in the customers' direction for a change.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

 

Organize a one month Auction Abstinence during one of these periods when all the major auction players are holding their premiere auctions. If you can get 10-20% of the bidding pool to refrain from any active bidding, you may yet send a message.

 

The minority voice is only heard when pooled together with others.

 

Personally, I would love to see a set of accepted comic auction standards that touches on issues of shilling and price manipulation become enacted in the hobby and embraced by the various dealers who utilize an auction format. Perhaps the NOD Chairman can help organize a panel to adopt such standards and institute them in his own auctions. What say you Brent?

 

 

I am assuming that will not be the month you are selling any of your books right?

 

See Cheetah's comments below; no reason the two can't go hand in hand. In fact, if seller's abstain, the impact on the wallet of the auction houses is even greater.

 

BTW, I haven't consigned to an auction house since last November, and I doubt I will doing it anytime soon. Not only is the flood of available material bad for me as a seller, the type of service I've gotten as a consignor (in general) has been marginably acceptable at best. Add in the lower realized prices, and it makes you balk at doing it again. Of course, to an auction house, whether your book sells for $700 or $500 doesn't really matter, as they still make $50 for essentially processing your book, scanning it, storing it for a few weeks, and shipping it out after the fact. There is very little downside.

 

Lose 10-20% of your consignments though.....

[Transplant]

Not to quash the idea of approaching auction houses with a list of potential standards, but as to why a boycott likely won't work? The prisoner's dilemma. Or maybe a refresher on some game theory. Tell me the month this boycott is happening. It's going to be a good month to buy, possibly a good month to sell. People will push their grandma down the stairs to get a book.

[NewWorldOrder]

Actually, we can guffaw all we like, but George has a very good idea.

 

Why can't we arrange a boycott of an auction, both consigning and buying? A lot of the heavy-hitters are here and a decent take-up would certainly send a message that, as consumers, we're not prepared to take this scamming any longer?

 

I personally have not bought a book from Pedigree, Heritage, Matt Nelson, CLink or Lauterbach for over four years now, simply because I disagree with their 'business model' (a phrase which gives it more validity than it's due, IMHO).

 

Why can't people hold off for one single month, for the overall benefit of the hobby as a whole?

 

Because People are ing sheep.

 

Well, I think it's high time to herd the sheep in the customers' direction for a change.

 

Nick,

 

It would have to start with the submitters to the auction house.

 

No books=no bids=ing them over=victory

 

George is saying not to bid which is penalizing alot of the honest sellers, and that would not be fair to them.

 

The problem is the boards really only represents a very small niche of the market place so getting the word out here is a great start, but you would need to take this to a whole new level of education to gets things rolling.

 

 

[Foolkiller]

It'd work better if people refrained from submitting comics to the auction. Don't punish the people selling.

 

yup.

 

I wonder why we couldn't take and expand a self policing CGC boards website and expand it to an auction site. Nominal fees to support the cost of the site if you want to sell there, self policing, and the sellers go onto a probation list (same as here) if there are problems. Same as here, only as an auction site. I'm sure it's more complicated than this, but I'm just suggesting, if we don't like the practices of the big auction houses, how about trying to start our own self sustaining one.

[divad]

It'd work better if people refrained from submitting comics to the auction. Don't punish the people selling.

 

yup.

 

I wonder why we couldn't take and expand a self policing CGC boards website and expand it to an auction site. Nominal fees to support the cost of the site if you want to sell there, self policing, and the sellers go onto a probation list (same as here) if there are problems. Same as here, only as an auction site. I'm sure it's more complicated than this, but I'm just suggesting, if we don't like the practices of the big auction houses, how about trying to start our own self sustaining one.

 

It's a great idea, but probably a lot of work, that often would end up being born by a few.

[1koko]

Actually, we can guffaw all we like, but George has a very good idea.

 

Why can't we arrange a boycott of an auction, both consigning and buying? A lot of the heavy-hitters are here and a decent take-up would certainly send a message that, as consumers, we're not prepared to take this scamming any longer?

 

I personally have not bought a book from Pedigree, Heritage, Matt Nelson, CLink or Lauterbach for over four years now, simply because I disagree with their 'business model' (a phrase which gives it more validity than it's due, IMHO).

 

Why can't people hold off for one single month, for the overall benefit of the hobby as a whole?

 

Not consigning is more powerful than not bidding.

 

If the auction houses know its a single auction boycott they have the bidding power to pick up the books on the cheap.

 

They then sell them in the next auction and earn a trading profit on top of their fees.

 

Non-consignment would mean no fee and no trading profits as book not there.

 

 

[Foolkiller]

It'd work better if people refrained from submitting comics to the auction. Don't punish the people selling.

 

yup.

 

I wonder why we couldn't take and expand a self policing CGC boards website and expand it to an auction site. Nominal fees to support the cost of the site if you want to sell there, self policing, and the sellers go onto a probation list (same as here) if there are problems. Same as here, only as an auction site. I'm sure it's more complicated than this, but I'm just suggesting, if we don't like the practices of the big auction houses, how about trying to start our own self sustaining one.

 

It's a great idea, but probably a lot of work, that often would end up being born by a few.

 

I'm sure you're right, the trick would be, could it be done so that it is primarily self sustaining, but the fees going directly to whoever we have monitoring it from a technology side and creating the website. It's a huge idea but in addition or instead of a boycott, give people a real alternative to the status quo.

[cheetah]

Why not approach eBay about holding a periodic special auction for HG comics? Might be an interesting niche for them to explore. They've proven that they don't care enough to shill their own auctions but will hammer anyone caught shilling (if they decide it is worth the effort).

[NewWorldOrder]

It'd work better if people refrained from submitting comics to the auction. Don't punish the people selling.

 

yup.

 

I wonder why we couldn't take and expand a self policing CGC boards website and expand it to an auction site. Nominal fees to support the cost of the site if you want to sell there, self policing, and the sellers go onto a probation list (same as here) if there are problems. Same as here, only as an auction site. I'm sure it's more complicated than this, but I'm just suggesting, if we don't like the practices of the big auction houses, how about trying to start our own self sustaining one.

 

Not a bad idea as long as there are enough people to actually bid so the seller feels it is a valid place to sell their books.

 

Seriously though the market can take one more auction site selling vintage books especially if it a honest and trustworthy auction house.

 

Storms, Foolkiller, and SOT Cobra Commander open up HighGradeComicAuctions.com.

I envision 7% commission and making everyone else go bye bye.

 

[1koko]

Why not approach eBay about holding a periodic special auction for HG comics? Might be an interesting niche for them to explore. They've proven that they don't care enough to shill their own auctions but will hammer anyone caught shilling (if they decide it is worth the effort).

 

I'm not sure how succcessful their shilling detection actually is.

 

Remember the Action #1 auction?

[etanick]

Brian,

 

I am all for your idea of setting an auction system here in addition to the market place in existence already.

 

Not that my boycotting will hurt them much but I think I will step away from participating at any auctions for the next few months.

 

 

[VintageComics]

Why not just hold a VCC auction on eBay then?

 

 

[MrBedrock]

Another statement I live by in my law practice

You are a lawyer?

 

Who woulda thunk...

[cheetah]

Why not approach eBay about holding a periodic special auction for HG comics? Might be an interesting niche for them to explore. They've proven that they don't care enough to shill their own auctions but will hammer anyone caught shilling (if they decide it is worth the effort).

 

I'm not sure how succcessful their shilling detection actually is.

 

Remember the Action #1 auction?

 

As opposed to whose? Pedigree, Clink, Heritage? At least they catch people once in a while. Do the others even try?

[Dale Roberts]

Hey all --

 

I have little to add, except that I have no vested interest in the topic anymore since I've stopped collecting CGC books thanks to stuff like...the topic at hand.

 

Here's my take:

 

1. Enough auctions are rigged -- shilled, manipulated, what have you -- to make them all suspect. If you're bidding in an auction, take everything with a huge grain of salt and just bid the amount you're comfortable with. If you "lose", at least you can comfort yourself with the idea that you may not have lost to a warm body. This goes for ANY auction house, because even if the house is on the up-and-up the consigner may have friends shilling it. Whatever helps the seller.

 

2. GPA and George are really trying to help the hobby. I agree that some of its data is already skewed, but that's no reason to punt on calling out poor dealer practices. Dealers want GPA to go up, up, up, for obvious reasons...at least these boards can remind them of what the heck a "moral standard" might look like when you run a business.

 

3. I am learning to despise the ostrich clan that encourages board members to "just be happy" and "emphasize the joy of collecting" when a vast majority of the supply of nice books -- major website dealers and auction houses -- seem to have no concept of fairness, truth, or responsibility. I DO love comics and comic art, but watching the "professionals" trying to "manipulate the market" is, to paraphrase 'Dodgeball', like watching a bunch of retreads humping a doorknob. Pathetic, obvious, arrogant, and reprehensible. Just post books, name a price, be willing to haggle a little, and report true sales to GPA, fer God's sake!

 

Still a Bob Storms fan, by the way, after all these years.

 

Dan

 

 

 

Ummm, why would dealers want GPA to go up, up, up? Surely most dealers have recognized that the more GPA goes up on a book, the fewer actual customer there are for those books.

 

I would think that people who actually own the books in their collections are the ones with a major interest in seeing GPA go up.

 

I personally think that GPA is right on on many books, and way off on many books, as far as what their value "should" be. And I don't like seeing GPA go down, because I have inventory that I have already invested in.

 

More to the point, here is exactly how I view GPA....one sale should not have as much influence on the market as it does. One crappy auction result and the market is crushed on a book, many times with no regards to circumstance. One ridiculous sale (like Avengers #16 back a year or two ago), and the market goes nuts.

 

It would seem better to me if George would not even report individual sales, but yearly averages on a book, that way, one sale which was an aberation one way or another, would not have such a huge influence.

 

 

 

[Foolkiller]

Brian,

 

I am all for your idea of setting an auction system here in addition to the market place in existence already.

 

Not that my boycotting will hurt them much but I think I will step away from participating at any auctions for the next few months.

 

 

I just think it'd be interesting to try. Of course it wouldn't have amazing results at first, but it's something you'd have to build. John, my proposal would be for the commission to be even lower than 7% -- as low as possible to make it functional and sufficient. It all depends on the material and that people know about it. It's a huge idea that requires a lot of thought, but I'm just offering it as a point of further discussion.

[VintageComics]

Brian,

 

I am all for your idea of setting an auction system here in addition to the market place in existence already.

 

Not that my boycotting will hurt them much but I think I will step away from participating at any auctions for the next few months.

 

 

I just think it'd be interesting to try. Of course it wouldn't have amazing results at first, but it's something you'd have to build. John, my proposal would be for the commission to be even lower than 7% -- as low as possible to make it functional and sufficient. It all depends on the material and that people know about it. It's a huge idea that requires a lot of thought, but I'm just offering it as a point of further discussion.

 

Strange question, but where do the proceeds go?

 

[1koko]

Why not approach eBay about holding a periodic special auction for HG comics? Might be an interesting niche for them to explore. They've proven that they don't care enough to shill their own auctions but will hammer anyone caught shilling (if they decide it is worth the effort).

 

I'm not sure how succcessful their shilling detection actually is.

 

Remember the Action #1 auction?

 

As opposed to whose? Pedigree, Clink, Heritage? At least they catch people once in a while. Do the others even try?

 

Not sure whether they proactively try or its brought to their attention by other e-bayers. I think its the latter. This is only possible because the bidders are identifiable by an id and feedback listing.