Thoughts on CGC GRADING (((POLL)))

[comicinvestor-migration]

Well, again I will ask, if you can point me to where CGC states they use a different standard for a 9.6-9.8 book that is Modern than for one that is GA or SA or even BA, then please point me to it. If not, then there is absolutely nothing ludicrous about it.

 

Just head on over to Heritage and use your eyes and your brain.

 

I realize that CGC apologists feel a need to stand up for their profit-partner, but this is getting really stupid. I ooooh and aaaaah with the best of them over some CGC 9.4-9.6 GA books, but this is more a factor of a 70-year old comic being in such great shape, not that they match up for gloss, corner sharpness, front/back cover cleanliness, ink/color depth with a similar, just-off-the-presses Modern, or even Bronze.

 

Here's a question for CGC: What's the highest graded Gold, Silver, and Bronze comics with Rusted Staples? How about Edge Tanning? Dust Shadows? Back Cover Soiling?

 

I guarantee that Golden Age would come out the winner, as I've seen some seriously high-grade GA books with Rusted Staples, but Bronze Age comics with that flaw get knocked down to VG-F for sure (guaranteed 100%, seen the books, know the submitter, who talked to CGC!!!).

[PovertyRow]

Just head on over to Heritage and use your eyes and your brain.

 

I have been to Heritage many times. Unless I win the lottery, probably will not buy, but have to respect the kind of books they have. But CI, I really do not know why my "eyes and brain" on a Heritage site will answer my question of WHERE it is stated that CGC uses different standards for GA.

 

THAT is the real question here. Not what is rumored. Not what has been well known for ages. Not what Bob Overstreet may have intimated (and he did not give any real specifics if we are talking about the same Overstreet opinions I am). The real questio is so simple and no one has answered it yet: What standards does CGC use to grade GA vs what standards do they use to grade other eras? Is this so complex a question it cannot be answered?

 

 

[Guest]

They wont answer. They wont tell their secret grading recipe to us. We are not worthy.....

[comicinvestor-migration]

Do I look like I work for CGC? Ask them to post their "Secret Recipe" grading standards and then we'll all know.

 

BTW, check out Sully's Wolverine CGC 9.2 auction, and I'll be more than willing to post some Golden Age CGC 9.2's that don't come close:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=743116528

[comicinvestor-migration]

And one more time:

 

Here's a question for CGC: What's the highest graded Gold, Silver, and Bronze comics with Rusted Staples? How about Edge Tanning? Dust Shadows? Back Cover Soiling?

 

I guarantee that Golden Age would come out the winner, as I've seen some seriously high-grade GA books with Rusted Staples, but Bronze Age comics with that flaw get knocked down to VG-F for sure (guaranteed 100%, seen the books, know the submitter, who talked to CGC!!!).

[PovertyRow]

Do I look like I work for CGC? Ask them to post their "Secret Recipe" grading standards and then we'll all know.

 

Thank you, CI. In my opinion, if a comp[any is going to charge for grading, regardless of the impact that company has on the market, they should simply divulge their grading standards. It is certainly not too much to ask for a compnay that is making good money from their grading. And it is certainly not too much to ask from the people who are paying them that money to grade their books (and a LOT of trust goes along with that!) There should be no secrets here. It This is really a simple thing. If they say this is NM 9.4, then they should actually say what NM 9.4 means. And so far they obviously haven't.

[originalisbest]

Hey CI, imagine a perfect Model T, fresh off the line. Perfect black paint (or, as perfect as it was for the time.) that somehow has survived unmolested to this day. Comparo it to a brand new black Mustang off the line. Which do you expect to be in better shape, as a matter of course? Do you downgrade the Model T for runs in the paint? Or do you realize that it is just as it was applied, not to mention it might just be the best in the world anyway? Would you not naturally hold the Mustang to a different standard of perfection, especially as 10 identically perfect ones just rolled off the line while you contemplated the Model T?

 

Common sense seems in AWFULLY short supply here. And it's all just adjectives and hearsay anyway. Use your brain, actually look at the thing and make the call yourself.

 

As for CGC publishing a standard and thereby relieving all future grading discrepancies - ha aha ha ah ha ha ha! PCGS did that, and did a mighty fine job of it - but still the great grading debate rages on and people still disagree as to how they're applying their standards. As long as people remain involved in the art of grading - sorry, it's not a science - disagreements will continue.

 

Develop your own standards, and stick to them. If you think CGC just ain't following your ideal standards and thereouttabealaw, etc. - then found your own rival grading company already. Hey, it worked for NGC vs. PCGS back in '87!

[FlComicFan]

CGC will never divulge their grading standard that you can bank on. If they did it would 1. open up a can of worms to their grading inconsistencies 2. armed with that info you could better know what to look for to insure 9.4 and above when submitting your own books Since they are a privately held company they can pretty much do as they please which brings me to point 3. since nobody really knows that exactly their standards are then why exactly do people feel fortunate to be able to pay huge multiples for books graded 9.4, 9.6 , 9.8 etc? I have books slabbed 9.2 to 9.6 and I sent them in and looked at them for hours and couldnt tell any difference in edges, spine, registration the cut the interior the paper the damned smell even Yet if they wera ll the same issue one the 9.6 would fetch 6-7 times what the lowest the 9.2 would get on the current open market. Another practice that I find disturbing is the pre screening. Look we all know where those books that dont meet the cut go dont wee. Yep right on Ebay raw listed as NM or NM+ even though the submitters have already had them checked out for a meager $3 to insure they werent missing out on that NM 9.4 or better. Until Nm 9.4 CGC sells for close to Overstreet guide I'll be buying bargain priced mid or low grade Golden age keys. I feel a hell of a lot more comfortable paying even full guide for a nice 60 year old than paying crazy multiples for a Bronze book based on a grading standard that is not even set in print. Chet

[blowout]

"If they say this is NM 9.4, then they should actually say what NM 9.4 means. And so far they obviously haven't. "

 

here lies the root of the problem.

until CGC releases their standards, the best we can do is to compare them with overstreet guidelines. as you say pov, if someone is paying for a service, then he expects to know what he is paying for.

the fact that cgc won't release their 'secret recipe' means that some of their credibility is lost. i think that three years is long enough to develop a co-herant enough set of standards to release to the customer.

[PovertyRow]

I guarantee that Golden Age would come out the winner, as I've seen some seriously high-grade GA books with Rusted Staples, but Bronze Age comics with that flaw get knocked down to VG-F for sure (guaranteed 100%, seen the books, know the submitter, who talked to CGC!!!).

 

OK - you unintentionally slipstreamed your reponse while I was posting my previous one.

 

Again (and again and again) - what you are ignoring is my simple question. I will make it more succinct this time. I don't CARE what is rumored or what Heritage shows or what Bob has implied or anything else. The collectors are keeping CGC in business. The collectors are paying CGC for "services". If CGC wants to accept money from people to grade their books, and they grade older books using a different standard, they should SAY SO. That is it. That is my argument in a nutshell.

 

 

[comicinvestor-migration]

Would you not naturally hold the Mustang to a different standard of perfection, especially as 10 identically perfect ones just rolled off the line while you contemplated the Model T?

 

Of course, and that's what I've been saying. Others are stating that the grading criteria for a 70 year-old GA book is EXACTLY the same as for a just-off-the-presses Modern.

 

I accept reality, while others see it as a slight against CGC.

[originalisbest]

I would say you've hit the nail on the head as far as the smart way to go. Don't pay a multiple for a minute difference in grade that you CAN'T see. But then, I'm not a fan of paying crazy multiples. Then again, there are actually people paying hundreds, even into the thousands, for BRAND-NEW state quarters in PCGS slabs because they made the "right" grade.

 

And you thought some comic collectors were nuts. Believe me, this actually takes place and it raises some similar debates - fleecin' the sheep and how!

[PovertyRow]

Others are stating that the grading criteria for a 70 year-old GA book is EXACTLY the same as for a just-off-the-presses Modern.

 

If you mean me, CI - then count me out. What *I* am saying is that to this date, with an exception from Mister Overstreet in, as best I recall, non-specific terms, the grading criteria is a single one. And that is what is making me insane, crazy or otherwise wanting to re-film Plan 9 From Outer Space using the same -script but "in color and with new young actors" - you know - the way they did with Psycho?

[FlComicFan]

oh yeah I think everyone is on the same page yet when I run a search for NM on Ebay I find most auctions whether they be CGC graded or raw for NM or quote NM books are going for over guide and in many cases for multiples heck comic keys sells books for multiples with private feedback and private auction and 90% of the in the know comic crowd believes all the books to be cut and dyed. Geesh stupid people are still stupid

[Rickdogg]

Who cares? FORD SUCKS A PHAT ONE!

[PovertyRow]

Geesh stupid people are still stupid

 

Ain't saying nuffin'.

[originalisbest]

But I thought PHAT was "cool".

 

Oh well, substitute a Chebby. All better!

 

Oh wait, they stopped makin' Camaros and Fireburps!

 

Ehh, whatever.

[Rickdogg]

hehehe, honestly I don't like american made vehicles period. Poor design and the interior always looks no better than my cousin's power wheel

[FlComicFan]

PHAT is Pretty Hot And Tempting geesh, catch up on the new American lexicon of Ebonics

[Rickdogg]

hehehe, i didn't say that the ford was "phat." I said it sucked a phat one 8=====D~~~