Jerry's All Star #8 better pics

[Pirate]

since the "label" didn't mention a staple pop that makes it ok to sell a raw book without disclosing it?

 

Did you find out about the staple pop before or after you yanked it out of the inner well?

[rockman2008]

 

4) Yes, the All Star #8 is listed in eBay store. It has received offers in the $5K range. No attempt has been made to sell it until this gets resolved. It be "evidence"

 

 

I'm sure eBay feels otherwise. According to their TOS agreement, if someone hits the Buy It Now at 10K in your eBay ad, that person has a binding sales agreement with you. If you're saying you won't sell it to him (a contingent sale) until the CGC matter gets resolved, then you're breaking the letter and spirit of displaying your book for sale on eBay.

 

Why you're exposing yourself to this potential situation on eBay, has some of us confused.

[sfcityduck]

Man ... this forum sure is catty and full of "mean girls."

 

BLB may be overreacting to this situation, but why not let CGC defend itself? It's CGC's forum, after all, and it presumably would defend itself if it felt the need.

 

The catty comments sure don't seem to be shedding any light on the situation. I'm not sure who is supposed to be impressed by the trashing of longtime collectors with such petty accusations as they (1) propped up a GA book at an agle for photographing when it was in mylar with a backing board, (2) held up a comic one-handed while leaning over other comics, or (3) because of their personal appearance (which seems fine to me).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bronty]

CGC damaged both the books mentioned and they have never made a move to make this "right"

 

If CGC had treated this honorably from the git-go, I would have "moved on" a long long time ago

 

 

I understand that and you may have a point there. But it takes two and nothing about your posts on the subject leads me to believe you were calm in discussing it with them. I could be dead wrong. But the tone of the accusations and the listing the book on ebay to collect "evidence" (what is this, an episode of matlock?) casts doubt, as does your request for 10k to make it right when the book was clearly not worth that before cgc, after cgc, or at any point in its life.

 

Now you were dealing comics before I was born and I respect that. But right is right and 10k for that book is not right.

[Bronty]

Man ... this forum sure is catty and full of "mean girls."

 

BLB may be overreacting to this situation, but why not let CGC defend itself? It's CGC's forum, after all, and it presumably would defend itself if it felt the need.

 

The catty comments sure don't seem to be shedding any light on the situation. I'm not sure who is supposed to be impressed by the trashing of longtime collectors with such petty accusations as they (1) propped up a GA book at an agle for photographing when it was in mylar with a backing board, (2) held up a comic one-handed while leaning over other comics, or (3) because of their personal appearance (which seems fine to me).

 

The guy starts two threads about the situation and you're surprised when people comment? Come on. BLB is trying to draw attention to the situation, trying to elicit comments, trying to get collectors on his side in order to try and force cgc to, in his mind, rectify the situation.... but he's going to have a hard time getting people on his side and eliciting the type of outrage he is looking for if his requests appear misguided.

[Detroit MIke]

But right is right and 10k for that book is not right.

 

+1 ... even though I'd like to see Jerry's widow get some money. I feel the 10k estimate is just because it's the insurance company's money.

 

 

[sfcityduck]

Man ... this forum sure is catty and full of "mean girls."

 

BLB may be overreacting to this situation, but why not let CGC defend itself? It's CGC's forum, after all, and it presumably would defend itself if it felt the need.

 

The catty comments sure don't seem to be shedding any light on the situation. I'm not sure who is supposed to be impressed by the trashing of longtime collectors with such petty accusations as they (1) propped up a GA book at an agle for photographing when it was in mylar with a backing board, (2) held up a comic one-handed while leaning over other comics, or (3) because of their personal appearance (which seems fine to me).

 

The guy starts two threads about the situation and you're surprised when people comment? Come on. BLB is trying to draw attention to the situation, trying to elicit comments, trying to get collectors on his side in order to try and force cgc to, in his mind, rectify the situation.... but he's going to have a hard time getting people on his side and eliciting the type of outrage he is looking for if his requests appear misguided.

 

Not surprised people comment. I'm surprised by the catty petty personal nature of the comments, especially when directed at guys who appear to be longtime collectors.

 

I have no problem with substantive responses.

[MrBedrock]

CGC damaged both the books mentioned and they have never made a move to make this "right"

 

A pretty well verified rumor is now being started that CGC wiped out over $2000 in grading fees to make this "right".

 

 

[MrBedrock]

BLB may be overreacting to this situation, but why not let CGC defend itself? It's CGC's forum, after all, and it presumably would defend itself if it felt the need.

 

Heck, what is there for CGC to defend themselves against?

Bob is doing a great job of establishing CGC's defense.

[bullseye]

that's a lot better than a couple hundred for matt or sue to reglue that staple

[jerome34]

Note that if someone hit BIN and paid for the All Star 8, then the estate

would wind up with more money than they could expect. I think Bob

would feel that things went well for the family (which is his main goal)

and would, rightfully, think the CGC "got away" with damaging the book.

[BLBcomics-migration]

I hear you but I think that's beside the point. richard evans had a comment about that book being restored with respect to the shading near the staple that was both objective and extremely convincing. At this point I'm sorry bob but "mayhap" you be dead wrong. Its OK to admit it.

 

Might the book have been restored? Perhaps.

 

But it appears to me that until we have solid proof (and I'm not sure, do we?), I would like to focus more so on what we do know.

 

From as far as I can tell, that specific book (as well as others) did not appear to be handled as carefully as it could have been; the photograph is pretty clear.

 

Think about it this way, if you were to find out that CGC kept of of their submissions on a living room floor, laid up against boxes with somewhat heavy objects spread across tables not far from the books themselves; would you be alarmed in any way? Would you brag to your friends about how safely you felt your books were kept?

 

Of course not.

 

It might be fair to criticize a possible error made on CGC's part if you feel that they were not as careful as they could have been; but it doesn't appear that the book in question was handled with enough care at the time the picture was taken either.

 

Um, with all due respect, the books in the pics we took that night were laid out for all of a few minutes. Everything was secure, this thought pattern you project is irrelevant as once we were done with the pics (for posterity for ourselves), they were replaced into their nice new mag comic boxes along with some foam at prerequisite places so as not to slosh around

 

Actually, when I think about it, with all due respect, as every one is entitled to what ever opine they choose to perceive, the train of thought here is absurd.

 

I personally sold well over two thirds of what is erroneously referred to as "San Francisco" copies of what should be properly called the Tom Reilly collection, the name of the deceased sailor who died during World War Two. For many years the #2 Pedigree out there in funny book land. Is it still? I do not keep up with such inanities any more.

 

Just for the record, I think the Detective 27 which broke a million dollars at a recent Heritage auction was and is the Tom Reilly copy I sold to (then) Houston major collector, later dealer attorney (for Hunt Oil) Burl Rowe back in May/June 1973 for $2200 thereby becoming the very first comic book to break the two grand barrier, then a world's record.

 

By today's standards it was a VF. Burl sold it to Gary and Lane Carter who then sold it to one one else. World be fun to trace the Heritage Tec 27 backwards to see if the path is crossed.

 

Burl paid me two grand even for the NM type Whiz 2 (#1) - it was such a beautiful vibrant white paper high grade. Burl bought other high grade Reilly copies for big bucks, but I forget the other books now, lost to the mists of time -

 

I was the main vintage comics person for the Comics & Comix corporation in its earliest incarnations 1972-1975. That Tec2 7 sale which went AP/UPI world wide as a wire service story brought us in three more Tec 27s that month. Had a few more later on over time. This is just one book. I learned early on the power of the media bringing in books and publicity.

 

Point being, to even hint that myself, and other close friends I let into my warehouse comics research site who end up handling rare books, do not know how to do same, is, well, absurd.

 

That all said, if the All Stars were left out to be trampled on, well, yes, then you have a point and a case.

 

When we did this, I had just gotten in a plethora of material which was in the middle of being processed, hence, stacks every where. We were in the receiving area.

 

What you do not get to see were the six other rooms in the place which contained more of the storage archive areas plus my computer work room.

 

The room you see is where other books books were processed and I re-iterate, as I assume this to be a serious query, and will treat it as such, the All Stars were laid out for a few minutes, we took a couple shots, then placed them all back into their storage protection.

 

Jerry Bails was a close friend, and I was honored to be asked to handle his books & art.

 

Honored.

[Pirate]

I hear you but I think that's beside the point. richard evans had a comment about that book being restored with respect to the shading near the staple that was both objective and extremely convincing. At this point I'm sorry bob but "mayhap" you be dead wrong. Its OK to admit it.

 

Might the book have been restored? Perhaps.

 

But it appears to me that until we have solid proof (and I'm not sure, do we?), I would like to focus more so on what we do know.

 

From as far as I can tell, that specific book (as well as others) did not appear to be handled as carefully as it could have been; the photograph is pretty clear.

 

Think about it this way, if you were to find out that CGC kept of of their submissions on a living room floor, laid up against boxes with somewhat heavy objects spread across tables not far from the books themselves; would you be alarmed in any way? Would you brag to your friends about how safely you felt your books were kept?

 

Of course not.

 

It might be fair to criticize a possible error made on CGC's part if you feel that they were not as careful as they could have been; but it doesn't appear that the book in question was handled with enough care at the time the picture was taken either.

 

Um, with all due respect, the books in the pics we took that night were laid out for all of a few minutes. Everything was secure, this thought pattern you project is irrelevant as once we were done with the pics (for posterity for ourselves), they were replaced into their nice new mag comic boxes along with some foam at prerequisite places so as not to slosh around

 

Actually, when I think about it, with all due respect, as every one is entitled to what ever opine they choose to perceive, the train of thought here is absurd.

 

I personally sold well over two thirds of what is erroneously referred to as "San Francisco" copies of what should be properly called the Tom Reilly collection, the name of the deceased sailor who died during World War Two. For many years the #2 Pedigree out there in funny book land. Is it still? I do not keep up with such inanities any more.

 

Just for the record, I think the Detective 27 which broke a million dollars at a recent Heritage auction was and is the Tom Reilly copy I sold to (then) Houston major collector, later dealer attorney (for Hunt Oil) Burl Rowe back in May/June 1973 for $2200 thereby becoming the very first comic book to break the two grand barrier, then a world's record.

 

By today's standards it was a VF. Burl sold it to Gary and Lane Carter who then sold it to one one else. World be fun to trace the Heritage Tec 27 backwards to see if the path is crossed.

 

Burl paid me two grand even for the NM type Whiz 2 (#1) - it was such a beautiful vibrant white paper high grade. Burl bought other high grade Reilly copies for big bucks, but I forget the other books now, lost to the mists of time -

 

I was the main vintage comics person for the Comics & Comix corporation in its earliest incarnations 1972-1975. That Tec2 7 sale which went AP/UPI world wide as a wire service story brought us in three more Tec 27s that month. Had a few more later on over time. This is just one book. I learned early on the power of the media bringing in books and publicity.

 

Point being, to even hint that myself, and other close friends I let into my warehouse comics research site who end up handling rare books, do not know how to do same, is, well, absurd.

 

That all said, if the All Stars were left out to be trampled on, well, yes, then you have a point and a case.

 

When we did this, I had just gotten in a plethora of material which was in the middle of being processed, hence, stacks every where. We were in the receiving area.

 

What you do not get to see were the six other rooms in the place which contained more of the storage archive areas plus my computer work room.

 

The room you see is where other books books were processed and I re-iterate, as I assume this to be a serious query, and will treat it as such, the All Stars were laid out for a few minutes, we took a couple shots, then placed them all back into their storage protection.

 

Jerry Bails was a close friend, and I was honored to be asked to handle his books & art.

 

Honored.

 

so because you have been around forever and have the old school mentality that every book is NM, how does that make CGC liable for a restored book?

[skypinkblu]

Man ... this forum sure is catty and full of "mean girls."

 

BLB may be overreacting to this situation, but why not let CGC defend itself? It's CGC's forum, after all, and it presumably would defend itself if it felt the need.

 

The catty comments sure don't seem to be shedding any light on the situation. I'm not sure who is supposed to be impressed by the trashing of longtime collectors with such petty accusations as they (1) propped up a GA book at an agle for photographing when it was in mylar with a backing board, (2) held up a comic one-handed while leaning over other comics, or (3) because of their personal appearance (which seems fine to me).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Doohickamabob]

Not surprised people comment. I'm surprised by the catty petty personal nature of the comments, especially when directed at guys who appear to be longtime collectors.

 

Then we can only assume you feel the same way about the original post, which refers to people as a "peanut gallery" and whatnot.

 

[BLBcomics-migration]

This accident should not have happened if the CGC receivers

slowed down while handling incoming. Otherwise the mailing tape

would not have gotten on the #7 cover either. Just one man's opine.

 

You haven't told us much about your communication with CGC, and what they said happened to the All Star #8. What was their story? How extensive has your communication been with them?

 

BOB: There was a lot of communication attempts earlier on. I did not just come out of the wood work on this note. Earlier on before the pain of bone on bone from zero hip joint cartilage got the best of me for some time there, and I fell out of contact with virtually every one I know, I was calling Steve B quite a few times saying what i have been trying to present coherently here in that other thread which got hi-jacked, and i did not have good pics to show.

 

Life began to get more normal with me come Oct 20 2009 when I was blessed with my surgeries. I thank every one who helped me get my life back.

 

Once the mind numbing pain was gone, I could think again, and i picked up where I had left off, but by that time, Steve B be out as CEO, young guy Mark Haspel be in as person supposedly running day to day operations.

 

I contacted CGC, was stonewalled. I contacted Jean Bails to please contact CGC, she did, she emailed me back CGC was stonewalling her as well.

 

I then sent more strongly worded emails to CGC, was rewarded with those efforts by an email purporting to be form a CGC attorney threatening to sue me regarding some sort of "vendetta" I was supposedly launched on Mark Haspel personally. which is absurd on the face of it.

 

I then tried to communicate with CGC stock holders I know, to no avail to date.

 

Went out to Wondercon San Fran, then C2E2 Chicago, as "tests" being my first shows since the surgeries, found I am not yet ready for prime time again, paid others to get my smaller warehouse moved, got some systems set up, then found time to begin this scenario

 

Earlier months back I was still healing more, so even though the intense pain was dissipating, I was then, and still remain but less so now, unable to lift my stuff like I did in the past before the cartilage all wore off. Healing from having both hip joints replaced same day is very slow.

 

there have been some attacks saying "move on" and I respond that is all fine and dandy, but I know each of you would be dancing to a different tune if it was your book which had gotten damaged by CGC

 

Some on the first run thread here called Jerry's All Stars wrote at the time

they thought it was a contender for being "highest certified" copy.

It looked that nice before the accident inside CGC.

 

According to the CGC census, there is an unrestored copy that grades 9.0. There's also an unrestored 8.5, two 8.0's, a 7.5, a 7.0, two 6.5's, and two 6.0's. In the restored category, there are three 9.0's and three 8.5's. From the looks of things, most/many of the above are in better condition than the copy in question.

 

Your copy includes a section of the cover actually drawn on (the shadowing at the wrist of the figure) to hide the significant restoration at the lower staple.

 

BOB: The line about being a contender for potential "highest graded" did not originate with me, rather, others on the original first thread called Jerry's All Stars which began back May 2007. It was in that longish thread (full of a lot of fun pics and data, still worth a read for any newer listers here), some other people participating in the conversations were making hay about how it could maybe at that time be a contender for "highest graded."

 

My contention has been and will remain that CGC's insurance company

should compensate Jerry's widow for the damage CGC person(s)

did to All Star #7 and #8. They can do whatever they want to after purchasing.

They pulled the rug out from underneath these copies of All Star #7 and #8.

 

Why are you offering CGC no other options besides buying the comic from you? Especially when your stated price is inflated beyond market value? You still haven't explained your estimated value of $10,000 -- where are you getting that?

 

BOB: Am unsure how all the quote stuff functions, please bear with me.

 

Coming out of that Jerry's All Stars thread back in 2007, with some on there speculating from the scans re it being a potential contender for HG, is where my original thought pattern came out re what I began asking for proper and just compensation on this book for Jerry's estate.

 

"Stone wall" is all the present CGC masters presently in charge have chosen to do.

 

If we were not discussing this here, believe me, I would all over the place else where. This CGC world is and remains just a microcosm of the world of comics I walk thru.

 

When it was under my protection the book was not broken at the staple like i is now. there was not a tear at coming off the bottom of the staple. There was not interior cover paper not now forcibly removed.

 

They have yet to make a fair offer to settle this

 

Stone Wall

 

Hence, I brought it here, and to their credit we are still discussing this

 

 

 

[bullseye]

Point being, to even hint that myself, and other close friends I let into my warehouse comics research site who end up handling rare books, do not know how to do same, is, well, absurd.

 

Doesn't make the book worth more, and your deceit matter less in the grand scheme of things though.

[bullseye]

BOB: Am unsure how all the quote stuff functions, please bear with me.

 

Coming out of that Jerry's All Stars thread back in 2007, with some on there speculating from the scans re it being a potential contender for HG, is where my original thought pattern came out re what I began asking for proper and just compensation on this book for Jerry's estate.

 

"Stone wall" is all the present CGC masters presently in charge have chosen to do.

 

If we were not discussing this here, believe me, I would all over the place else where. This CGC world is and remains just a microcosm of the world of comics I walk thru.

 

When it was under my protection the book was not broken at the staple like i is now. there was not a tear at coming off the bottom of the staple. There was not interior cover paper not now forcibly removed.

 

They have yet to make a fair offer to settle this

 

Stone Wall

 

Hence, I brought it here, and to their credit we are still discussing this

 

 

 

So your asking price is based on a number someone on a message board pulled out of their hiney 3 years ago without taking into account the book has been restored? Just asking.

[BLBcomics-migration]

Not surprised people comment. I'm surprised by the catty petty personal nature of the comments, especially when directed at guys who appear to be longtime collectors.

 

Then we can only assume you feel the same way about the original post, which refers to people as a "peanut gallery" and whatnot.

 

Yes, "some" people, not every one

 

And this thread here in not over run by any peanut gallery (yet)

 

The previous one I had started called Comics & Life surely was, and to be honest, I stopped reading it. Whatever I was saying, or responding to serious inquiry, was being buried in inanity on the part of some.

[BLBcomics-migration]

 

so because you have been around forever and have the old school mentality that every book is NM, how does that make CGC liable for a restored book?

 

If it did have "a spot of glue, a dab of color touch" right under the cover paper of the bottom staple as Steve B related to me when he hand delivered the run of All Stars back to me,

 

and had not been yanked off its moorings as seen in the pics in this thread, there are a number of paper conservators I know in museums, libraries, as well as those inside the world of comics fandom, who could have removed the glue

 

See, the huge hole was not there before.

 

Nor The Pull Tears as previously described above in a previous post.

 

By virtue of a CGC employee yanking it at its moorings too hard, said person changed the potential dynamics of this book.

 

My being in the comics business longer than most here has got nothing to do with them damaging said books, rather, that longish post was in response to an accusation some of us "old timers" do not know how to handle comic books, creating potential umbrage in some circles -