The Humanization of Church Books

[jbcomicbox]

When the Overstreet conference discussed the adoption of the ten point system, a number of traditionalists wondered if it would eventually mean that a Church copy would simply be "another high grade copy". In other words, would it loose that "times Guide" pricing?

 

I looked at some of the results of the Heritage Auction and see that a number of Church books were fortunate to sell at Guide. (Centaur excluded). I understand that some books are more desirable than others. But that "premium" would be built in any way.

 

Have we seen the prophecy come true, that a Church book is just another high grade book?

 

jb

[qualitycomix]

I think it depends on the title. Action Mile Highs would sell for a premium over a regular Action in the same grade. Maybe even double it. Same with Timelys if they ever come on the market.

[jbcomicbox]

I think it depends on the title. Action Mile Highs would sell for a premium over a regular Action in the same grade. Maybe even double it. Same with Timelys if they ever come on the market.

 

If so, "The Exception" of "The Rule"?

[MrBedrock]

Have we seen the prophecy come true, that a Church book is just another high grade book?

Can the results of one auction vindicate a prophecy?

[comicdonna]

I paid 4.5 guide for this one!

[adamstrange]

see that a number of Church books were fortunate to sell at Guide

Non-Church books sold for under guide so while there may be some "flattening" of the premium, I think it's more useful to wonder about the reliability of the Guide on quite a few GA titles.

[sfcityduck]

I think it depends on the title. Action Mile Highs would sell for a premium over a regular Action in the same grade. Maybe even double it. Same with Timelys if they ever come on the market.

 

So people are irrational?

 

Why would anyone pay more for a book that is the same quality as another book?

 

The only way this would make sense is if the grade awarded by CGC for the non-Mile High book was generous and they weren't actually of the same quality.

 

But, from what I read here, CGC tends to be laxer in their grading of "pedigree" books, especially in overlooking writing on the cover. So it may well be that any book that actually got, for example, a 9.8 from CGC without a pedigree would actually be a better book than a Mile High example.

 

Maybe I can understand paying a premium of some OO book that is fresh to the market just to ensure you own something that half the board can't say used to be in their collections. But, the Mile High books (I'm talking generally) have been in the market now for 33 years.

[Straw-Man]

I think it depends on the title. Action Mile Highs would sell for a premium over a regular Action in the same grade. Maybe even double it. Same with Timelys if they ever come on the market.

 

So people are irrational?

 

Why would anyone pay more for a book that is the same quality as another book?

 

The only way this would make sense is if the grade awarded by CGC for the non-Mile High book was generous and they weren't actually of the same quality.

 

But, from what I read here, CGC tends to be laxer in their grading of "pedigree" books, especially in overlooking writing on the cover. So it may well be that any book that actually got, for example, a 9.8 from CGC without a pedigree would actually be a better book than a Mile High example.

 

Maybe I can understand paying a premium of some OO book that is fresh to the market just to ensure you own something that half the board can't say used to be in their collections. But, the Mile High books (I'm talking generally) have been in the market now for 33 years.

 

if you were a car collector, would you pay a bit more for a certain lincoln town car convertible, vintage '63, that a president was shot in than you would for another of "the same quality?"

 

obviously the analogy is off-kilter toward the historical car--but to many of us, the fact of the book coming from church's collecition gives it an extra "oomph" that another, similar book does not have. i won't pay crazy mulitples, but i will pay more than i will for a similarly graded book.

 

and, in virtually every situation in which i've seen a church book of a given grade, and compared it against another copy of that particular issue that got the same assigned grade, the chuch book has stood out in it's freshness. they simply have better eye-appeal.

 

but to answer even more directly, hell, yes i am irrational! i'm consumed with collecting 10c items from decades ago that were meant for kids, and i pay thousands and thousands of dollars for them. not for the investment, which they incidentally are, but because I CAN'T HELP MYSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[adamstrange]

CGC tends to be laxer in their grading of "pedigree" books

The only comment I've heard is that a book that is a 'tweener grade, would get rounded to the higher number if it's a pedigree.

 

overlooking writing on the cover

They handle writing on the cover the same way regardless of whether the book is a pedigree or not. Whether it's the owner's name on the cover or whether it's a distributor mark it results in the same deduction regardless of pedigree status.

 

Why would anyone pay more for a book that is the same quality as another book?

When it comes to post-1963 books I think this is often the case. For GA books, it's very hard to argue that a Church copy with a 9.6 CGC label is the same quality as a non-pedigree copy with a 9.6 CGC label. It is unlikely that it will look, smell or handle as easily as the Church book. CGC derives a single number to describe the condition of a book and does so without much consideration of page quality, ink reflectivity and color retention, all factors that make the Church copy often completely outshine it's high grade competitor.

[markseifert]

if you were a car collector, would you pay a bit more for a certain lincoln town car convertible, vintage '63, that a president was shot in than you would for another of "the same quality?"

 

obviously the analogy is off-kilter toward the historical car--but to many of us, the fact of the book coming from church's collecition gives it an extra "oomph" that another, similar book does not have. i won't pay crazy mulitples, but i will pay more than i will for a similarly graded book.

 

Yep. For many of us, the Church books were fabled in song and story, so to speak, as we were coming of collecting age and starting to learn about the hobby seriously. I'm not a high grade collector, but I've got some Church books because I want a small part of the most legendary comic book collection ever.

[VintageComics]

I think it depends on the title. Action Mile Highs would sell for a premium over a regular Action in the same grade. Maybe even double it. Same with Timelys if they ever come on the market.

 

So people are irrational?

 

 

It's not people being irrational, it's simply supply and demand and hot titles will carry a greater premium than those with less demand.

 

Adventure comics are cool as heck but there aren't nearly as many people wanting a copy of a classic cover Adventure #42 as there are that would want a Church copy of an early Action or Marvel Mystery book.

 

Many of those books that recently sold will sell for only a fraction of guide in lower grades so they are already over priced in the current guide. That's sad to me as they are terrific books but that is the reality.

 

It's simply a matter of certain titles moving from formerly A tier to a B tier.

 

 

[stagedoorjohnny]

Why would anyone pay more for a book that is the same quality as another book?

 

 

You must have never held or paged thru a Church book. Have you? Because if you did, you would never say this. Church books are freaks of nature. And a CGC label is not the be all end all, especially when it comes to GA books.

 

As for some Church books selling for guide, I agree, that brings into question the actual guide price for the book as much as anything. I've paid as much as 10x guide and I've paid as little as less than 2x guide for Mile Highs during identical market conditions.

[VintageComics]

Why would anyone pay more for a book that is the same quality as another book?

 

 

You must have never held or paged thru a Church book. Have you? Because if you did, you would never say this. Church books are freaks of nature. And a CGC label is not the be all end all, especially when it comes to GA books.

 

As for some Church books selling for guide, I agree, that brings into question the actual guide price for the book as much as anything. I've paid as much as 10x guide and I've paid as little as less than 2x guide for Mile Highs during identical market conditions.

 

A well preserved book, say in 9.4 or 9.6 grade is very different than a book in 9.4/9.6 that was not well preserved. They feel different, they smell different and they look different.

 

There's much more to a well preserved book than simply the grade on the CGC label.

 

(thumbs u

[buttock]

I think it depends on the title. Action Mile Highs would sell for a premium over a regular Action in the same grade. Maybe even double it. Same with Timelys if they ever come on the market.

 

So people are irrational?

 

 

It's not people being irrational, it's simply supply and demand and hot titles will carry a greater premium than those with less demand.

 

Adventure comics are cool as heck but there aren't nearly as many people wanting a copy of a classic cover Adventure #42 as there are that would want a Church copy of an early Action or Marvel Mystery book.

 

Many of those books that recently sold will sell for only a fraction of guide in lower grades so they are already over priced in the current guide. That's sad to me as they are terrific books but that is the reality.

 

It's simply a matter of certain titles moving from formerly A tier to a B tier.

 

I'm just quoting this so I can recant it next time you try and argue that Marvel 1 hasn't become B tier.

[VintageComics]

I think it depends on the title. Action Mile Highs would sell for a premium over a regular Action in the same grade. Maybe even double it. Same with Timelys if they ever come on the market.

 

So people are irrational?

 

 

It's not people being irrational, it's simply supply and demand and hot titles will carry a greater premium than those with less demand.

 

Adventure comics are cool as heck but there aren't nearly as many people wanting a copy of a classic cover Adventure #42 as there are that would want a Church copy of an early Action or Marvel Mystery book.

 

Many of those books that recently sold will sell for only a fraction of guide in lower grades so they are already over priced in the current guide. That's sad to me as they are terrific books but that is the reality.

 

It's simply a matter of certain titles moving from formerly A tier to a B tier.

 

I'm just quoting this so I can recant it next time you try and argue that Marvel 1 hasn't become B tier.

 

May I suggest something in the way of a tattoo to remind you?

 

[buttock]

I think it depends on the title. Action Mile Highs would sell for a premium over a regular Action in the same grade. Maybe even double it. Same with Timelys if they ever come on the market.

 

So people are irrational?

 

 

It's not people being irrational, it's simply supply and demand and hot titles will carry a greater premium than those with less demand.

 

Adventure comics are cool as heck but there aren't nearly as many people wanting a copy of a classic cover Adventure #42 as there are that would want a Church copy of an early Action or Marvel Mystery book.

 

Many of those books that recently sold will sell for only a fraction of guide in lower grades so they are already over priced in the current guide. That's sad to me as they are terrific books but that is the reality.

 

It's simply a matter of certain titles moving from formerly A tier to a B tier.

 

I'm just quoting this so I can recant it next time you try and argue that Marvel 1 hasn't become B tier.

 

May I suggest something in the way of a tattoo to remind you?

 

 

This tattoo reminds me of you...

 

[VintageComics]

I think it depends on the title. Action Mile Highs would sell for a premium over a regular Action in the same grade. Maybe even double it. Same with Timelys if they ever come on the market.

 

So people are irrational?

 

 

It's not people being irrational, it's simply supply and demand and hot titles will carry a greater premium than those with less demand.

 

Adventure comics are cool as heck but there aren't nearly as many people wanting a copy of a classic cover Adventure #42 as there are that would want a Church copy of an early Action or Marvel Mystery book.

 

Many of those books that recently sold will sell for only a fraction of guide in lower grades so they are already over priced in the current guide. That's sad to me as they are terrific books but that is the reality.

 

It's simply a matter of certain titles moving from formerly A tier to a B tier.

 

I'm just quoting this so I can recant it next time you try and argue that Marvel 1 hasn't become B tier.

 

May I suggest something in the way of a tattoo to remind you?

 

 

This tattoo reminds me of you...

 

 

I feel inadequate without a Marvel #1.

 

[G.A.tor]

well, I am inadequate with a marvel 1

[Gatsby77]

To me, it only makes sense that some Church books have lost their lustre w/ the advent of CGC. Examples that I'm tracking: Startling 35 CGC 6.0. Believe it's still the highest-graded but I have a raw copy that would grade out higher, and I've seen at least two that would be higher. So why pay the premium?

 

Likewise, check Metro's pricing on various copies of Terry Toons 38. Last I checked, they had a slabbed 7.0 for sale for like half or 2/3rds of the price of the (unslabbed) Church copy. The Church copy is unslabbed because it's worth more that way--generally acknowledged to be a 6.0 or 6.5, vs. the highest graded copy which is a 9.2.

 

I think it'd be cool to own a church copy (or a few thousand). But I think that CGC has proven there are definitely better copies out there for a statistically significant group of books that were not known in 1990, thus disputing Gerber's comment that "If you own the Church copy, you own the best one."

[esquirecomics]

if you were a car collector, would you pay a bit more for a certain lincoln town car convertible, vintage '63, that a president was shot in than you would for another of "the same quality?"

 

I would, I would!!!

 

The car would go nicely with this: