FF 50 shenanigans on Pedigree?

[Mark 1]

 

I never questioned your principals. What would I ask them? "Did Mark 1 get a lot of detentions?" "Was he a good student"? "Did he run in hallway without a hall pass?".

 

Though all very interesting questions, not very relevant to the current discussion.

 

Fair enough....thanks for correcting my spelling.

 

And to answer your questions

 

I got plenty of detentions

 

I was an okay student

 

I never ran in the hallway without a hall pass....

[LordRahl]

What if a buyer just bought the book but couldn't pay for it after the fact ? Doug would still be responsible to report to GPA that the sale didn't go through but I'm sure this sort of thing happens often with consignment sites.

 

I'm pretty sure that the way it works, is that Doug sends the book once he gets payment and that's when the report to GPA kicks in. Which would explain why I saw the sale pending on the site before July 28th but GPA lists it as sold on July 28th.

[Mark 1]

The only facts here are that this exact book sold on July 28th for $13,400 and has now been relisted by that buyer for $14,500. Everything else is technically conjecture.

 

Out of curiousity...if the buyer bought it for $13,400 and is now selling it for $14,500...how are they taking a loss on the book?

 

Perhaps I am missing something.

 

Is it not possible that the buyer decided to sell it to perhaps make a little money and get something else?

 

I just don't get the shenanigans....

 

$14,500 sale price minus $1450 commission to Doug leaves you with $13,050. Which is less than what he bought it for.

 

 

Good point...I didn't factor in the commission...

 

That is interesting....I stand corrected on that one.

 

 

[G.A.tor]

14500 less 9%=13195 (for the mathematically challenged )

[Mark 1]

I'd also like to just point out...

 

I am just being the devils advocate trying to show the other side of the coin.

 

I have no vested interest in Pedigree or Doug.

 

As I stated before...I have no insight into these prior alleged transgressions by him and just want to go on the record that I really like this forum.

 

I don't want any enemies or cause ill will. I'm a good guy and wanted to share my experiences. To each his own I say.

 

With that said...there are valid points being made and I certainly see why there is such a fuss...

 

 

[TeddieMercede]

What if a buyer just bought the book but couldn't pay for it after the fact ? Doug would still be responsible to report to GPA that the sale didn't go through but I'm sure this sort of thing happens often with consignment sites.

 

I'm pretty sure that the way it works, is that Doug sends the book once he gets payment and that's when the report to GPA kicks in. Which would explain why I saw the sale pending on the site before July 28th but GPA lists it as sold on July 28th.

 

Interesting. Continue on.

[hockey&comicsguy]

 

Anybody that says hes an OK guy, IMO is no better than he is................

Its funny how proof can be offered about a person and yet there will be some of you that return to this forum in the future whining about how they ripped you off.

 

Oh, so now I am a criminal for buying 5 comic books from the guy. Ludicrous!

 

And just out of curiousity...I gather you have never done business with someone who is an ex-con? I bet you have and didn't know it. Should they be banished and never allowed back into society for paying for their crime? These arguments are childish.

 

AND I DIDN'T SAY HE IS AN OK GUY. I said I had a positive experience buying books from the guy. Learn to read.

 

 

Let me chime in here b/c I think GA Collectibles makes a few good points.

 

As I stated before, I don't care (in a sense I do of course or I wouldn't be in this discussion) if somebody buys from Satan himself. Just call a spade a spade and don't sugarcoat or sweep under the rug the fact that Satan is the devil just b/c he hasn't fried you yet. If somebody wants to buy from Doug, then do so. But you're helping him maintain his ways and giving him no reason to change.

 

And GAC makes a great point, you stated it yourself no less. If the devil had what you wanted, you'd buy it from him. That's crazy. Heck, why not buy comics you know to be stolen so long as you "get a good deal"?

 

The bottom line is it's great to get a good deal. But how far will you go, who will you get into bed with to get that deal? Anybody and everybody, no matter what?

 

And as for your example about ex-cons. There's a huge flaw in it. In the case of Doug, you're knowingly dealing with a shyster. How you can link that to buying from an "ex-con without even knowing it" and think that holds water is goofy to say the least.

 

I wasn't picking on you earlier and i'm not now. Keep buying from Doug. I don't care. Just know that by doing so you give him no reason to change any of his seedy practices.

 

And seriously, don't buy books from the Satan just b/c he's giving you a great deal. Not doing so is what separates us from the animals.

[hockey&comicsguy]

 

With all this said...the one dealer I was screwed by and will probably never deal with again nobody says a word about....Metropolis....now that is a company I would prefer to stay away from (especially raw books).

 

 

Believe me, Metro's got its very own anti-fan club here on these boards. They just haven't been outed for anything recently. Maybe that's a good sign?

[Silver Surfer]

I think the books should be slabbed in mylars with a clear backer and shipped in a ziplock

 

actually 2 out of 3 would be good

 

Or they should just make the back portion of the inner well a little thicker and firmer? Seems like the easiet solution?

[t3quila]

I hear what everyone is saying about Doug, but can someone point me to some sweet deals on his books? Everything seems expensive....

[Timmay]

Just to be clear, I don't think this is a case of selective reporting. I think this is an outright fabrication of a sale that never happened. Big difference between those 2 in my opinion.

 

ding ding ding

 

we have a

[Foolkiller]

Y'all take this for what it's worth.

 

The idea of ethical or unethical in this hobby is somewhat humorous to me. I've said this before, I'll say this again, there's little in the line of ethics that seems to govern in our hobby. This isn't to say there aren't ethical people, it's simply to say that when people seem to see the gold ring, they go for it without regard to anything else.

 

I think it's funny to see Doug as one of the "big boys" of the hobby. If there were no CGC, my guess is Doug would be bankrupt right now. He would have been disbarred, and his collection, while valuable, would not have sustained him the way it has, nor would the creation of an auction site been as viable. Historically, Doug owed several people money (in the comic world) without paying, took long amounts of time before paying, etc.

 

With regards to the issue of disbarment, I actually believe it is related to comics in a round about way. Almost every dealer described Doug as an actual comic junkie. Someone who was an addict. Who had to have the best book. When he wanted pac coast books, he went after them with a vengeance and with blinders on. This led him to some fantastic wins (i.e. FF 1 9.6). He also was taken advantage of -- reportedly by dealers who knew his weakness or his willingness to "overpay". Fortunately, that "overpaying" paid huge dividends. Some could call it foresight, and in Brulato's case, that's exactly what I'd call it. In Schmell's case, I'd call it luck.

 

With all this said, Schmell is a good guy in person. I'd call many of his ethical "challenges" prior to disbarment as a result of his "disease". Were he an alcoholic etc., I think it'd absolutely be classified this way. Do I believe he tried to rip people off now? I doubt he'd view it that way, but I do think there are some shady, questionable and possibly unethical things going on in the way he runs business.

 

While it's not an excuse, it's probably par for the course.

 

Ethics in the hobby comes up often on the boards. I just wonder how many people think that, both collectors when selling and dealers alike, are ethical. Since there are so many dealer/collectors these days, I wonder where the ethics are. There are plenty of those who many think are ethical in both realms where some more than questionable stories are floating out there with verified facts from the parties relaying them. Board members included. Of course, there's no need to even be cryptic, as we've seen several board members undergo bouts in the probation thread where they are the same people who also touted tough "ethics" etc.

 

When questioning the ethics of a dealer, I think we ought not to confine it to them. I think it's unfortunate so many dealers are dishonest, but I do think praise is deserved for those who are consistently honest. People like Bob Storms, Richard Evans, Dale Roberts, Dave Reynolds, Dave Kapelka and others deserve our support with our dollars. When people chase and choose to pursue those who are less than ethical because they "have the books I want" we are simply feeding into the system that allows this sort of thing to continue perpetuating.

 

Everyone is free to make their own calls. Perhaps the last 10 years of "education" I've received has only caused me to become jaded about our hobby in many ways. There are some very well connected people who have told me how disgusted they are, and that while I know a lot, it is dwarfed by some of the things they have seen first hand. That's a bit disturbing considering how many things I know.

 

My faith in the hobby is reaffirmed by those good colleagues and friends I've made in the hobby. I'm still excited to go and pick up high grade copies of all types of books. Bronze, Coppers and early silver and bronze. There's tons of great books out there completely unmanipulated etc.

 

My last word is on Metropolis who I see often maligned here and again in this thread. While I know that there are several strong opinions about Steve Fishler, I will only say that I am always fair about my criticism of the pros and cons of Metropolis. To me, Vincent Zurzolo, who I have battled with often about some of the business practices of Metropolis on discounting etc., is a person of high integrity and honesty. I really think highly of Vinny, despite going to the mat with him often. In the interest of full disclosure, I do buy from Metropolis but there are no crazy discounts or any special treatment. Metropolis is ripped here to me all too often extremely unfairly. On the issue of raw books, like every dealer, they have both under and over graded books. I'm not sure why they are a popular target of the whole, "I got an overgraded book" thread, but those on top are always more likely to be ripped.

 

I hope there's more discussion as we move forward on ethics in the hobby. Especially the high end vintage end. That being said, our behavior as consumers does have a direct impact if we continue to allow those who operate unethically to do business as usual.

[FlyingDonut]

[Korvac Saga]

Guys- I haven't looked through the whole thread, but I know the seller from the initial sale on Pedigree + it was absolutely a legit sale. The current owner had thought the book had upgrade potential, showed it to the pressing experts + was told that it wouldn't upgrade. So now the book is back up for sale. Not how I like to spend my $$, but to each his own

[arexcrooke]

Y'all take this for what it's worth.

 

The idea of ethical or unethical in this hobby is somewhat humorous to me. I've said this before, I'll say this again, there's little in the line of ethics that seems to govern in our hobby. This isn't to say there aren't ethical people, it's simply to say that when people seem to see the gold ring, they go for it without regard to anything else.

 

I think it's funny to see Doug as one of the "big boys" of the hobby. If there were no CGC, my guess is Doug would be bankrupt right now. He would have been disbarred, and his collection, while valuable, would not have sustained him the way it has, nor would the creation of an auction site been as viable. Historically, Doug owed several people money (in the comic world) without paying, took long amounts of time before paying, etc.

 

With regards to the issue of disbarment, I actually believe it is related to comics in a round about way. Almost every dealer described Doug as an actual comic junkie. Someone who was an addict. Who had to have the best book. When he wanted pac coast books, he went after them with a vengeance and with blinders on. This led him to some fantastic wins (i.e. FF 1 9.6). He also was taken advantage of -- reportedly by dealers who knew his weakness or his willingness to "overpay". Fortunately, that "overpaying" paid huge dividends. Some could call it foresight, and in Brulato's case, that's exactly what I'd call it. In Schmell's case, I'd call it luck.

 

With all this said, Schmell is a good guy in person. I'd call many of his ethical "challenges" prior to disbarment as a result of his "disease". Were he an alcoholic etc., I think it'd absolutely be classified this way. Do I believe he tried to rip people off now? I doubt he'd view it that way, but I do think there are some shady, questionable and possibly unethical things going on in the way he runs business.

 

While it's not an excuse, it's probably par for the course.

 

Ethics in the hobby comes up often on the boards. I just wonder how many people think that, both collectors when selling and dealers alike, are ethical. Since there are so many dealer/collectors these days, I wonder where the ethics are. There are plenty of those who many think are ethical in both realms where some more than questionable stories are floating out there with verified facts from the parties relaying them. Board members included. Of course, there's no need to even be cryptic, as we've seen several board members undergo bouts in the probation thread where they are the same people who also touted tough "ethics" etc.

 

When questioning the ethics of a dealer, I think we ought not to confine it to them. I think it's unfortunate so many dealers are dishonest, but I do think praise is deserved for those who are consistently honest. People like Bob Storms, Richard Evans, Dale Roberts, Dave Reynolds, Dave Kapelka and others deserve our support with our dollars. When people chase and choose to pursue those who are less than ethical because they "have the books I want" we are simply feeding into the system that allows this sort of thing to continue perpetuating.

 

Everyone is free to make their own calls. Perhaps the last 10 years of "education" I've received has only caused me to become jaded about our hobby in many ways. There are some very well connected people who have told me how disgusted they are, and that while I know a lot, it is dwarfed by some of the things they have seen first hand. That's a bit disturbing considering how many things I know.

 

My faith in the hobby is reaffirmed by those good colleagues and friends I've made in the hobby. I'm still excited to go and pick up high grade copies of all types of books. Bronze, Coppers and early silver and bronze. There's tons of great books out there completely unmanipulated etc.

 

My last word is on Metropolis who I see often maligned here and again in this thread. While I know that there are several strong opinions about Steve Fishler, I will only say that I am always fair about my criticism of the pros and cons of Metropolis. To me, Vincent Zurzolo, who I have battled with often about some of the business practices of Metropolis on discounting etc., is a person of high integrity and honesty. I really think highly of Vinny, despite going to the mat with him often. In the interest of full disclosure, I do buy from Metropolis but there are no crazy discounts or any special treatment. Metropolis is ripped here to me all too often extremely unfairly. On the issue of raw books, like every dealer, they have both under and over graded books. I'm not sure why they are a popular target of the whole, "I got an overgraded book" thread, but those on top are always more likely to be ripped.

 

I hope there's more discussion as we move forward on ethics in the hobby. Especially the high end vintage end. That being said, our behavior as consumers does have a direct impact if we continue to allow those who operate unethically to do business as usual.

Solid and I believe spot on Brian.

[namisgr]

Guys- I haven't looked through the whole thread, but I know the seller from the initial sale on Pedigree + it was absolutely a legit sale. The current owner had thought the book had upgrade potential, showed it to the pressing experts + was told that it wouldn't upgrade. So now the book is back up for sale. Not how I like to spend my $$, but to each his own

 

But the torches are lit. The people are crying out for justice.

[VintageComics]

Guys- I haven't looked through the whole thread, but I know the seller from the initial sale on Pedigree + it was absolutely a legit sale. The current owner had thought the book had upgrade potential, showed it to the pressing experts + was told that it wouldn't upgrade. So now the book is back up for sale. Not how I like to spend my $$, but to each his own

 

Regardless of the other points being discussed in this thread, that's a plausible scenario in this particular instance as I'm sure many a board member may have tried the same thing.

[Silver Surfer]

Guys- I haven't looked through the whole thread, but I know the seller from the initial sale on Pedigree + it was absolutely a legit sale. The current owner had thought the book had upgrade potential, showed it to the pressing experts + was told that it wouldn't upgrade. So now the book is back up for sale. Not how I like to spend my $$, but to each his own

 

Well I didn't want to get involved in ths thread because I was hoping Doug or someone who knew the buyer could confirm what you just said. Regardless of what Doug did in the past before he was a dealer I really don't enjoy watching people rail on him over and over again with the disbarment stuff.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Do you only post in between episodes of Jersey Shore?

Worst show ever.. And they arent Jersey people they are NYers who come to, and pollute the shore area. I guess they dumped so much krap in the water by them its the only place they havent tuned into a toxic wasteland.. Seriously I hate that show.

[paperheart]

Guys- I haven't looked through the whole thread, but I know the seller from the initial sale on Pedigree + it was absolutely a legit sale. The current owner had thought the book had upgrade potential, showed it to the pressing experts + was told that it wouldn't upgrade. So now the book is back up for sale. Not how I like to spend my $$, but to each his own

 

do facts belong in this thread?