$1000 is handed to you to invest long-term in CGC Copper Age what do you do?

[RockMyAmadeus]

Not sure I like this argument, Rocky. Minimal extant copies hasn't stopped books and other collectibles from being investments in the past.

 

Sure it has.

 

If something is functionally unobtainable, it cannot be used as an example of "what to invest in."

 

Consider OA. What's a good piece to invest in? Let's say the original cover to Amazing Fantasy #15. Well, good idea....except that piece resides in a permanent national collection, and is unobtainable at ANY price. Certainly would be a good investment though, right?

 

That's why the fine art market talks so little about "investment potential." Sure, one of Picasso's Blue Period paintings would make a FINE investment...now what do you tell everybody but the one person who bought that one piece that's come up in the last 5 years what *they* should invest in?

 

Investments should be reasonably obtainable by any investor with the cash available for the going market price. If an item is so rare that it only comes up for sale a couple dozen times over the span of years, that's not something that will be a readily obtainable investment.

 

In other words, if every person reading this, with the cash available to purchase it, isn't able to do just that in the next week or so, it can't be good investment "advice", because it cannot be acted upon by many....or even a few...of those being so advised.

 

This argument all depends on the amount of money available to invest. $3000? A couple of nice copies of TMNT could be found. To wit, see the SDCC dealer wall display pic with several CGC copies. $300,000? In this case, you are correct - the 'float' is not large enough.

 

True, and true.

 

(thumbs u

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Its OK amadeus.... I can completely handle your being irretrievably wrong. Doesn't bother me one bit

 

Me neither. I certainly don't think any less of you.

 

 

I will give you the point about the 9 issue 70s series. However the rest of your argument is so out there frankly I can't spend the time on it If you set the time machine back 20 years and ask 20 people at a comic con which is the more important book I don't think you'd get a single person saying batman 428.

 

20 years ago? You mean, 1990? When Bats #428 was still being mentioned in market reports...?

 

 

You might do better with 10 years ago.

 

For that matter I think you could do the same test today. Unless, of course, you happened to be attending that particular convention. In that case DKR might only get 19 votes.

 

DK #1 (the series is properly titled "The Dark Knight", in case anyone was wondering) is a very important comic book, no doubt. It is arguably the second greatest story ever told in comic book form (after Watchmen, though we really should be getting somthing legendary soon.)

 

But it's not important to the Bat universe. It's "the future", and has had zero impact on Bat continuity because of that. And...it's not even "the right future", as the past 25 years of continuity have demonstrated. It's just a really, really awesome Elseworld's story.

 

Important to comics? Yes. Important to Batman? Not so much.

[RockMyAmadeus]

.

Hey look--a pair of Tick Special Editions 1 and 2 in slabbed 9.4 sold tonight on Ebay! And another two raw sets as well!

 

I didn't get 'em since I was able to score my copies cheaper. Any of you get one?

 

I hear they're so rare you should just give up on looking for copies.

 

 

Now now, you're letting your frustration affect your fact-checking abilities, and cloud your reason.

 

 

Pay very close attention to the words I am about to type: every reference to the Tick SEs in this thread has been in regards to SLABBED SALES, as per the OP's original request.

 

That means RAW sales aren't part of this discussion.

 

As well, there was only ONE 9.4 that sold tonight, and that was a #2. The 9.4 #1 sold over a week ago.

 

I will say it again, since you clearly missed it the first time: there have been TWENTY TWO SLABBED sales in EIGHT YEARS in ALL grades...an average of less than 3 per YEAR...of slabbed Tick SE #1.

 

When something comes up for sale, on average, once every 5+ months....it's a tad hard to invest in it, no...?

 

As for #2...this makes the SIXTEENTH SLABBED SALE in EIGHT YEARS...or two a year...even harder to invest in one of those, eh...?

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

My mistake...the CGC 9.4 # 1 was indeed sold last week. And the third raw set ended (reserve not met) on Friday.

 

(thumbs u

[Prince Namor]

I think the success of the DKR was the catalyst for Batman the brand. Which led to DC ramping up the 'grim' aspect of the character again and leading to some much more interesting stories. Which may have led to a story like #428.

You have to question if not for the hype created by the movie, which some would say was green lit because of the breakout power of DKR, if the media would've even paid attention to the death of a comic book character.

No one outside of comics cared when Captain Marvel died, though he's far less of an icon than Robin is. (As a comic fan who always hated the character of Robin, but loved Starlin's Captain Marvel; that was a difficult statement for me to make!)

What I think can't be questioned, is the impact #428 had on the Batman universe. DKR isn't even a part of the actual universe of Batman, at least yet, so it has no repercussions on anything going on.

428 clearly does.

[Bronty]

 

Its OK amadeus.... I can completely handle your being irretrievably wrong. Doesn't bother me one bit

 

Me neither. I certainly don't think any less of you.

 

 

I will give you the point about the 9 issue 70s series. However the rest of your argument is so out there frankly I can't spend the time on it If you set the time machine back 20 years and ask 20 people at a comic con which is the more important book I don't think you'd get a single person saying batman 428.

 

20 years ago? You mean, 1990? When Bats #428 was still being mentioned in market reports...?

 

 

You might do better with 10 years ago.

 

For that matter I think you could do the same test today. Unless, of course, you happened to be attending that particular convention. In that case DKR might only get 19 votes.

 

DK #1 (the series is properly titled "The Dark Knight", in case anyone was wondering) is a very important comic book, no doubt. It is arguably the second greatest story ever told in comic book form (after Watchmen, though we really should be getting somthing legendary soon.)

 

But it's not important to the Bat universe. It's "the future", and has had zero impact on Bat continuity because of that. And...it's not even "the right future", as the past 25 years of continuity have demonstrated. It's just a really, really awesome Elseworld's story.

 

Important to comics? Yes. Important to Batman? Not so much.

 

now you're just changing your argument. your original quote was

 

"the most important Bat book of the 1980's (yes, even beyond Dark Knight #1), and because of that, will always be an important key from that era. "

 

not the most important to batman continuity or whateva.

 

the most important book starring batman. which you are at this point admitting is DKR. (Unless somehow you are saying the "second best" comic story ever told is not important which would be quite the mental masturbation indeed).

 

See, don't you like joining the rest of us that aren't high? Took a few posts but we got you here.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Its OK amadeus.... I can completely handle your being irretrievably wrong. Doesn't bother me one bit

 

Me neither. I certainly don't think any less of you.

 

 

I will give you the point about the 9 issue 70s series. However the rest of your argument is so out there frankly I can't spend the time on it If you set the time machine back 20 years and ask 20 people at a comic con which is the more important book I don't think you'd get a single person saying batman 428.

 

20 years ago? You mean, 1990? When Bats #428 was still being mentioned in market reports...?

 

 

You might do better with 10 years ago.

 

For that matter I think you could do the same test today. Unless, of course, you happened to be attending that particular convention. In that case DKR might only get 19 votes.

 

DK #1 (the series is properly titled "The Dark Knight", in case anyone was wondering) is a very important comic book, no doubt. It is arguably the second greatest story ever told in comic book form (after Watchmen, though we really should be getting somthing legendary soon.)

 

But it's not important to the Bat universe. It's "the future", and has had zero impact on Bat continuity because of that. And...it's not even "the right future", as the past 25 years of continuity have demonstrated. It's just a really, really awesome Elseworld's story.

 

Important to comics? Yes. Important to Batman? Not so much.

 

now you're just changing your argument. your original quote was

 

"the most important Bat book of the 1980's (yes, even beyond Dark Knight #1), and because of that, will always be an important key from that era. "

 

not the most important to batman continuity or whateva.

 

Wrong.

 

Read it again.

 

"The most important BAT BOOK of the 1980's.

 

Argument wasn't "changed." Same as it was from the start. When I say "BAT BOOK" I mean "important to the BATMAN UNIVERSE."

 

I am NOTHING if not consistent.

 

the most important book starring batman. which you are at this point admitting is DKR. (Unless somehow you are saying the "second best" comic story ever told is not important which would be quite the mental masturbation indeed).

 

 

Do you read what I actually type...?

 

Sometimes I don't think you do.

 

Dark Knight was important because of what FRANK MILLER did with Batman. It was about FRANK MILLER, not BATMAN. He could JUST as easily have done it with Green Arrow (as Grell did the next year, to more smash success) or Green Lantern, or even Superman. Dark Knight #1-4 has NOTHING to do with the in-continuity Bat universe, so it cannot be important TO that universe.

 

Important to comics? YES. Important to the Bat universe? NO.

 

This is not rocket surgery.

 

See, don't you like joining the rest of us that aren't high? Took a few posts but we got you here.

 

Read it again, Canucklehead. Maybe someone will explain it using words you can understand.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I think the success of the DKR was the catalyst for Batman the brand. Which led to DC ramping up the 'grim' aspect of the character again and leading to some much more interesting stories. Which may have led to a story like #428.

You have to question if not for the hype created by the movie, which some would say was green lit because of the breakout power of DKR, if the media would've even paid attention to the death of a comic book character.

 

You make a fair argument, Chuck, but I'd like to point out a few things.

 

1. Batman #428 came out in early October, 1988. The film would not be released until June, 1989. In the 80's, as I'm sure you know, there wasn't a lot of "pre-movie" hype like there is now, because there wasn't the internet and other ways of releasing information. If you wanted to see the trailer, you had to actually go to a movie theater and hope they played it, and playing a trailer 9 months ahead of a release date was very rare then. There certainly was no "media hype" surrounding the film when Batman #428 came out.

 

2. The success of DK had nothing to do with the movie's production; in fact, it had been in development since 1979, with scripts being written long before DK was released. By the time Bats #428 hit the stands, principal photography hadn't even been started. Rather, it was because of the success of Beetlejuice that Warner Bros. gave the greenlight for pre-production.

 

3. The real driving force behind Batman in the late 80's was Denny O'Neil, who was absolutely the lynchpin in evolving Batman beyond his late Bronze/early Copper doldrums, including convincing Miller to tackle Batman's origin (which O'Neil considered a fitting bookend to Dark Knight), and then getting Starlin to write the series, culminating in Death in the Family, and then getting Byrne, Wolfman, and Perez to continue the magic throughout 1989.

 

Batman was the only major DC character to NOT get a "reboot" in the mid-late 80's and this was due entirely to Denny O'Neil's influence...he didn't want the titles disturbed, believing he could accomplish more as they existed.

 

O'Neil, of course, must be remembered as the FIRST writer to return Batman to his "grim and gritty" roots back in the late 60's/early 70's, long before Dark Knight was a glimmer in Frank Miller's mind.

 

No one outside of comics cared when Captain Marvel died, though he's far less of an icon than Robin is. (As a comic fan who always hated the character of Robin, but loved Starlin's Captain Marvel; that was a difficult statement for me to make!)

What I think can't be questioned, is the impact #428 had on the Batman universe. DKR isn't even a part of the actual universe of Batman, at least yet, so it has no repercussions on anything going on.

428 clearly does.

 

(thumbs u

[Prince Namor]

Good points and great info on Denny O'Neil's influence on things. He obviously doesn't get enough credit for his part in making Batman an important character.

I guess my memory is a little clouded from not really having an interest in the character for so long (except as a kid, reading those O'Neil/Adams/Aparo stories), until Miller's DK came out. It just seemed as if everything just took off from there and the buzz surrounding the character made it so much more appealing again.

 

[500Club]

 

1. Batman #428 came out in early October, 1988. The film would not be released until June, 1989. In the 80's, as I'm sure you know, there wasn't a lot of "pre-movie" hype like there is now, because there wasn't the internet and other ways of releasing information. If you wanted to see the trailer, you had to actually go to a movie theater and hope they played it, and playing a trailer 9 months ahead of a release date was very rare then. There certainly was no "media hype" surrounding the film when Batman #428 came out.

 

 

Batman was actually one of the first movies with significant pre-movie hype. I remember seeing a movie in late '88 and having the Bat logo flashed on the screen during the trailers, with the 'Summer 1989' teaser below.

 

More a side point, though, and not really germane to the points you've made.

[Prince Namor]

 

1. Batman #428 came out in early October, 1988. The film would not be released until June, 1989. In the 80's, as I'm sure you know, there wasn't a lot of "pre-movie" hype like there is now, because there wasn't the internet and other ways of releasing information. If you wanted to see the trailer, you had to actually go to a movie theater and hope they played it, and playing a trailer 9 months ahead of a release date was very rare then. There certainly was no "media hype" surrounding the film when Batman #428 came out.

 

 

Batman was actually one of the first movies with significant pre-movie hype. I remember seeing a movie in late '88 and having the Bat logo flashed on the screen during the trailers, with the 'Summer 1989' teaser below.

 

More a side point, though, and not really germane to the points you've made.

 

And remember also, the tremendous controversy surrounding Keaton's casting as Batman, and the surprise of Nicholson playing the Joker. That was a topic of conversation with every comic fan I knew, and even NON comic fans.

If filming began in October of 1988 (according to Wikipedia), I would think the signing and announcement of cast had to have been August/September at the latest.

Seems that would have played right into the success of the current Batman storyline...

Still, 428's importance is a lock. No question.

[ComicConnoisseur]

The more I read this thread the more I am inclined to think mid-1980`s copper Batman/Detective Comics is the way to go, ala pre-1989 Batman movie era before the hype began.

[the blob]

The more I read this thread the more I am inclined to think mid-1980`s copper Batman/Detective Comics is the way to go, ala pre-1989 Batman movie era before the hype began.

 

I dunno, so much of it out there. What are these books in 9.8 nowadays vs. the peak? 75% down from before people realized that copper 9.8s are not so hard to find? I guess if you are getting the 9.8s cheap enough it makes sense.

 

and by the time 428 came along miller had already started working on the title 2 years earlier and such and then starlin had been doing the scripts for a year, etc. I had dropped out of actively collecting in 1987 but I sure see plenty of those books nowadays. miller was a big draw, got the title hot again, etc.

 

i dunno, this might be a case of "great books, but so many out there it's hard for the price to go up much"

 

then again, there's always new mutants 98 to blow that argument out of the water. but that's one book and a 1st app. of one of marvel's currently most popular characters. jason todd was only robin for what, like 5 years? and now he's now buried under like 50 feet of dirt (unless they bring him back as a zombie?)

 

as for hype, I didn't remember it from the time, but read the wiki entry on death in the family, DC set up an 800 number to let fans decide whether todd would die etc. and there was a ton of media attention while it was going on.

 

i understand this 2 or so year run of issues was important because it revitalized the franchise, but it would seem that Year 1 and Miller would have done that before Starlin's run.

[seanfingh]

 

I am pretty sure that Jason Todd was Hush and now is the Red Hood, but I haven't read a Batbook in years.

[kidcolt]

First off I would never do this as I don't collect slabbed books but since it is someone else's money I would either buy up early Usagi Yojimbo appearances or TMNT. They are fairly tough to find plus they are fantastic comics to read and enjoy.

[Lazyboy]

I am pretty sure that Jason Todd was Hush and now is the Red Hood, but I haven't read a Batbook in years.

He briefly appeared in the Hush storyline (maybe... and officially), but made his real return as the Red Hood. The story of his return was told in Batman Annual 25.

[the blob]

so he's not even dead anymore...even less reason to care all that much

[Robbussum-migration]

TMNT #1 First Print. Nuff said.

[oakman29]

TMNT #1 First Print. Nuff said.

(thumbs u

[chunkybutt]

There is one easy answer for this. Buy 500 copies of Wildcats #1 so you can get 5 of the "Ultra Limited Editions"!!!!!